Ghosts 'n Goblins and Night Knight new games

[Giles N]

@Trebor

Have you got some clues to the best possible palette-set-up for this port…?

Edited March 29, 2022 by Giles N

[+Defender_2600]

I think, at the moment, Matt is mainly focusing on the game engine rather than the colors and other details that are usually defined at a later stage of development.

 

However, since it has been mentioned, I think it would be nice to have the score numbers at the top of the screen and the extra life and weapon selected at the bottom of the screen, like in the arcade version. Just a hint, if you like the idea and if it's technically feasible.

For the extra lives you could only use the graphics of the player's head instead of the full sprite, as the arcade version does, the little head would seem less intrusive, but again just my opinion.

 

Regardless, great start!

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Defender_2600

[Gunther]

The H.U.D on most 8-bit micro-computer games was usually always almost a third of the screen tall.

They always had a game logo graphic just in case you forgot what game you were playing.

Ports to console should attempt to 'consolise' the H.U.D so that the gameplay window gets most of the screen real-estate.

The Ghosts-And-Goblins arcade H.U.D is a perfect example of this.

 

I asked about the colours because I think the 7800 could match the arcade closely.

The C64 version is quite dull in comparison to the arcade game as it is.

I think the 7800 could match the GX4000's port in terms of colour.

[Traxx]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

The H.U.D on most 8-bit micro-computer games was usually always almost a third of the screen tall.

They always had a game logo graphic just in case you forgot what game you were playing.

It's not done for that reason,scrolling large areas of the screen eats up the raster so scrolling a smaller area is done for hardware reasons.

[Traxx]

In some c64 games they use color bands to get extra colors on screen,Ghosts n Goblins for c64 does it also,like this

 

https://postlmg.cc/CZ8QZ6cx

Edited March 29, 2022 by Traxx

[Corby]

Can I buy Ghost n goblins? I've been really good! 

[Gunther]

12 hours ago, Traxx said:

It's not done for that reason,scrolling large areas of the screen eats up the raster so scrolling a smaller area is done for hardware reasons.

I get that it was done for hardware reasons; however, later micro titles ditched the over-the-top H.U.D's.

 

[+mksmith]

Once I get back into it I'll definitely be looking at the display colors and layout - I also like the arcade style layout more than the c64 version but there is a lot going on so it might cause a few rendering issues.

On 3/30/2022 at 7:15 AM, Corby said:

Can I buy Ghost n goblins? I've been really good! 

? Fingers crossed maybe one day!

[+Muddyfunster]

For folks interested in the history of the game, there is a really good documentary on YT. It covers the whole series and is really good. It's over an hour in length but worth a watch.

 

 

 

[ZylonBane]

On 3/29/2022 at 12:54 PM, Gunther said:

The H.U.D on most 8-bit micro-computer games was usually always almost a third of the screen tall.

If by the HUD you mean the status display, this is completely false. The only games I can think of that had such massive HUDs were either first-person 3D games, or ports from systems that didn't have any sprites or hardware scrolling.

[Gunther]

Tusker from System 3, and many other micro computer games have massive H.U.D.s.

Same for many early 16-bit micro games.

I can post TONS of examples...

[Giles N]

https://8bitworkshop.com/

[Giles N]

Click Open8bitworkshop button

 

choose 7800 / scrolling

 

 

—

 

perhaps it can shed some light on the topic
 

 

 

[+mksmith]

@Giles N Nice - didn't know that the 7800 had been included under the 8bitworkshop!

 

This looks like it's shifting the sprites via zones/DL lists? I had a little play with something similar with the text scroller in RobotsRumble - each character is an object/sprite and they are shifted using the 'Under the Hood' (directly accessing the zone objects rather then constantly redrawing them each frame).  I know Mike has been thinking about how 'sprite/object' scrolling might work as an option one day in 7800basic - my mentioned scroller was my attempt to try this scenario with my very average asm coding skills! 

 

The current GnG scrolling uses plotmap to draw the background.

 

[Giles N]

@mksmith

Hope you can use it for something buddy; I’m better at digging up info-sources, than understanding them.

 

Hope something here can be useful…

 

To what degree can C64 code, NES-code, SMS-code be used to learn basic or universal 8-bit code-operation-tricks, which then can be re-interprated to be used on the 7800…?

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Giles N

[Giles N]

It says:

 

 

«the screen

 

can scroll vertically
across the two DLLs. It can only wrap from the first 16
to the second 16 slots.»

 

What are the 2 DLLs?

 

What does it refer to giving this limit of ‘only wrap from the first 16 to the second 16 slots’…?

 

What are ‘slots’ referring to here? Pixels within the defined resolution?

 

Letter-boxes?

 

Sprites?

 

What?

 

—-

 

 

«Note that

 

this scheme can be used

 

also for double-buffering.»

 

I think I can ever-so-slightly remember some stuff concerning 8-way-scrolling and double-buffering… and I haven’t s clue to whats what here, not their interaction…

«By swapping between the two DLLs each frame,

one DLL

can
be written while

the other is displayed.»

 

So, is this the key to the problem, somehow?

 

- - -

 

I’m so unaquainted with coding-language; I search for net-info by topics and labels…

 

- - -

 

I have in past mostly worked only the 8 or 16 bit (or higher) parameters strictly necessary for a grfx’ian to get to grips with (number of colors, frames, sprite/blitter-object-sizes), not much more…

 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Giles N

[Trebor]

12 hours ago, Giles N said:

It says:

 

«the screen

 

can scroll vertically
across the two DLLs. It can only wrap from the first 16
to the second 16 slots.»

 

What are the 2 DLLs?

http://7800.8bitdev.org/index.php/Maria_Display_Structure_Overview

[Giles N]

@RevEng, @Muddyfunster @Defender_2600

 

What would be your suggestions for getting 8-way scrolling up ‘n running on this project?

 

Does DLLs only apply to sprites and characters, or does the same form of instructing the hardware apply to moving screens/backgrounds…?

 

Does display-zone, refer to backdrop/background/screen…?

 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Giles N

[RevEng]

There is no background in the way you're thinking. There's a single empty background-register coloured background. Anything other than that boring background is displayed through a DL entry, which lists the indirect objects (characters) or direct objects (sprites) to display in a given slice of the screen (a zone), as we saw in Trebor's link.

 

Without knowing the details of DLLs, DLs, and how a simple 7800 display is put together, you're not going to be able to pose questions on Matt's behalf that will actually be useful to him. He knows his DL stuff pretty solidly, and clearly he knows how to scroll things horizontally. He may or may not have questions when he gets to adding in vertical scrolling - I promise you - he has my number if he does.

[Giles N]

On 4/20/2022 at 11:18 PM, RevEng said:

- I promise you - he has my number if he does.

Good news!!

[Giles N]

… but a GnG conversion using vertical-flip-scroll-fields, may still be sn option.

 

Plsying through Castlevania for the SNES, it often resorts to resetting scroll-fields, through putting one horizontal scroll-field upon another, categorically.

 

- - -  

 

And, no, - I’m not trying to imply I know better how 7800-coding is done than anyone spending effort learning how to utilize it.

 

I just point out that shoot’n jump goth-horror-scrolling platform-games of tye highest quality (compare Castlevania IV for SNES, uses, vertically separated scroll-zones, to good effect).

 

- - -

 

And even if what I say here do not (…and it doesn’t) address the direct problem of 8-way directional scrolling, it may, be a start to get things actually going…

 

- - -

 

Just a few platforms adjusted… 

 

Just categorical pure horizontal and pure vertical scrolling coded; and it may make it close to a Super-Cool GnG 7800 all-level conversion…

 

- - -

[Giles N]

One could imagine the levels, rearranged, using parallel platform-structures vertically.

 

Example:

 

lets say, Lvl 2, part 1:

 

Arthur could either choose to follow a somewhat rearranged map horizontally: reaching the farthestmost solid platform, to then have to jump onto the falling-playform giving access to part.2, the Village.

 

But if Arthur goes higher up; he encounters a platform - which upon thoughing it, it falls…, but on this horizontal scroll-field, Arthur can see and jump onto the higher edge of the city-wall.

 

- if Arthur either;

a) gets to port-ground,

     or

b) gets to high city-brick-wall;

 

  … Arthur then can move to the far right, and get to the next part of the level (starting from there); 2 ways to get to part 2 of level 2.

[Giles N]

Note to above post:

Sega Master System Ghouls n Ghosts and Forgotten Worlds, rearranges and fuses level parts in ways to make the section actually work with SMS-capabilities…

[Ecernosoft]

On 12/4/2021 at 3:22 AM, Muddyfunster said:

Both look fantastic! Great work Matt!

That's because everything he makes is fantastic, even if the Milly and Molly hires sprites look kinda creepy.

 

 

Awesome work!!!! 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Ecernosoft

[thegamezmaster]

Curious about the difficulty level of the G&G. Selectable range I hope.