Atari's August 1984 list of game ROMs

[Savetz]

A pile of docs I got from former Atari employee Dan Kramer includes a list of Atari 5200/7800 games dated 1984-08-28. It gives the exact date of ROM releases, and lists several cancelled/unfinished/unreleased games. I don't know if there is any new information here, but trust that you'll find it if there is.

 

https://archive.org/details/atari-5200-7800-cartridge-library-1984-08-28

[0078265317]

Nice share.

[Tempest]

I see a few things on there.  
 

1. It lists Berzerk as have a voice and no voice version.  I wonder if Atari was originally planning on releasing it without the voice and added it in at the last minute? I do have a prototype that seems complete minus the voice so that's plausible.

 

2. Some test cart called PAMram which hasn't been archived.

 

3. A date for the final version of 5200 Asteroids.

4. Track and Field for the 7800.  This list proves it existed at some point.

 

[+Allan]

I believe PamRAM is a testing cart that was used in the factory for a final test before the 5200s went into the box. You can see this in the Cosmo's soccer/football documentary Once in a Lifetime. I may have posted some screenshots of this years ago on here. If I come across it I will add a link.

 

Interesting that the list includes Miner 2049ner, Star Trek and River Raid.

[+Allan]

It's interesting because Gremlins has a release date May 22,1984 and was produced in large numbers, yet Millipede has a release date of of April 4, 1984 yet has never shown up except in prototype form. Most of the copies of Gremlins (as well as Ballblazer and Rescue on Fractalus) were sold off to places like Radio Shack to be sold off for years after.

 

It's nice to have a 'Final List' but disappointing that there aren't any unknown ones on there to possible be found in the future.

 

Thanks, Kay, for the scan. And of corse thanks Dan for saving it.

[BIGHMW]

This is definitely a reason why I am fortunate to have what is now over 400+ titles thanks to guys like Paul Lay, @Wrathchild, @classics and many others for all of their A8 conversions they did for all of us (and, admittedly, for myself too) as well as our great homebrew community and maybe I'm trying to ask for too much out of these guys when I make requests for a few more A8 conversions like most recently, but there are just too many good games on Big Sexy that will never see the day of being on an XEGS anytime soon, so I guess I'll have to settle for no Gacek, Space Eggs, Threshold, Yoomp!, Arkanoid,  Food Fight, and many others due to them being too powerful for a 5200 to run. It would've been nice to have everything 5200 to be able to run on an XEGS but we know that will never happen anytime soon.

[gilsaluki]

What??!?!X*

[Tempest]

8 hours ago, Allan said:

It's interesting because Gremlins has a release date May 22,1984 and was produced in large numbers, yet Millipede has a release date of of April 4, 1984 yet has never shown up except in prototype form. Most of the copies of Gremlins (as well as Ballblazer and Rescue on Fractalus) were sold off to places like Radio Shack to be sold off for years after.

 

It's nice to have a 'Final List' but disappointing that there aren't any unknown ones on there to possible be found in the future.

 

Thanks, Kay, for the scan. And of corse thanks Dan for saving it.

Good catch on Millipede, I didn't even see that.  I guess that means it was super close to being released.  Maybe it was sent to manufacturing but then canceled?  

[Keatah]

18 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

It would've been nice to have everything 5200 to be able to run on an XEGS but we know that will never happen anytime soon.

And that's ok. Having different games on different systems lends contrast and color to the landscape. Each machine maintains its own distinctive personality. A contrast if you will. And it's always good to want something.

[BIGHMW]

6 hours ago, Keatah said:

And that's ok. Having different games on different systems lends contrast and color to the landscape. Each machine maintains its own distinctive personality. A contrast if you will. And it's always good to want something.

Yeah but I just hate it that despite the fact that both th 5200 and the 8-bit computers (including the XEGS) run on literally the same graphics and sound chips and the same 6502 processors this bullshit "developers' rights" element has to get in the way. Obviously not everything on the 8-bit is possible on Big Sexy due to her RAM limitation (16K RAM on the 5200 compared to 64K RAM on an XEGS barring having both U1MB and and XBVE upgrades done on her) but knowing that not all of us can (at this moment) afford having more than one console in our extensive lineups, I don't see what even our own @Albert won't do the simple (and right) thing of having (and allowing conversions of) all of the 5200 titles, including Tempest (yes Keithen Hayenga's Tempest), available for at least the XL/XE through the AA store on cart, I would more than gladly put down the $$$ and so would many others here. Adventure II already has been released for XL/XE, why not Tempest? 

 

Also, what now becomes of the 5 Mean Hamster Software titles for the 5200 now that that company has been out of business and has been defunct for the past 5 years? Are they now open for anyone to convert? We know we'll never see those or titles like Yoomp!, Gacek (the 2021 ABBUC Software Contest Winner), Arkanoid, Food Fight, or Albert (the brilliant 8-bit game not our own Albert Yarusso) on the 5200 anytime soon, but somebody can sure as hell make the more than 20-25 titles that are 5200-only games available on the XEGS. That's my case.

[Cebus Capucinis]

Boogie demo ?

[+Stephen]

1 hour ago, BIGHMW said:

this bullshit "developers' rights" element has to get in the way

How would you feel if someone stole your "music" (and I use that term loosely) because they felt it should be done their way on their sound system?

[BIGHMW]

48 minutes ago, Stephen said:

How would you feel if someone stole your "music" (and I use that term loosely) because they felt it should be done their way on their sound system?

@Stephen, In the music business that's called doing a "cover" of it, perfectly fine to most folks. It may be blasphemy to some that bands/artists do renditions of other bands'/artists' work but it's perfectly within their own right. Doing either an A8-to-5200 or 5200-to-A8 conversion is the same way. Just change a few codes on the program to make it work with that console and VOILA!!!

 

Besides, if anyone wants to do a cover of either an AK47 or Heavy Metal Warrior/S.M.F. song I don't mind at all. As both I have done countless covers of other bands'/artists' work both in studio and on stage, and nobody has said anything about it........ yet. It's the nature of the Beast.

 

Nothing says that White Zombie can't do a cover of Black Sabbath's "Children Of The Grave" (from Nativity In Black - A Tribute To Black Sabbath Vol. 1, 1994, Columbia/Sony), in which I thought they did a rather fantastic job of doing, and there's nothing wrong with doing an A8-to-5200 or 5200-to-A8 conversion of a particular game either. Chances are the game/song becomes even more popular as a result of it and even the OG version gets a few more sales as a result of it too. Whether it be Yar's Strike, Gacek, Barnstorming, or even Tempest, it's all good.

Edited December 24, 2021 by BIGHMW

[BIGHMW]

@Stephen, my case made with these tracks. Besides. I'd love to hear someone do a different version of "Rest In Pieces" or "Bates Motel" (from S.M.F.) or "AK47 In Da House" or "Compton Gang Bang" (from AK47), I'm actually anxious to hear what it would sound like done by (perhaps) one of my fans!!! I hope you and all of my other fellow Atarians here on AA have a very KICK-ASS Holiday season and weekend!!!

 

.....and let's crank these tracks up and run up those high scores on our multiple systems too guys!!!

 

BTW, also, if it makes anybody here on AA feel better I got great news from both Olympic Community Action Programs (OlyCAP) here in Port Townsend, and also my landlord here at Bishop Park Apartments this past week that I have been given grants on both my monthly internet and also my monthly rent and that I am fully-paid up through March 2022 and that, just might save The Atari Report so I DON'T HAVE TO sell my units after all and that we can not only proceed with filming those two episodes but it looks like we'll still be on the air for a while longer too!!!

 

Peace Out!!!

 

Ray Jackson @BIGHMW

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by BIGHMW

[Keatah]

4 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

Yeah but I just hate it that despite the fact that both th 5200 and the 8-bit computers (including the XEGS) run on literally the same graphics and sound chips and the same 6502 processors this bullshit "developers' rights" element has to get in the way.

Developers' rights is a huge topic with so many angles. But I tend to agree that dev rights and publisher rights have caused many a disappointment when I was a kid wanting game X on system Y.

 

Quote

Obviously not everything on the 8-bit is possible on Big Sexy due to her RAM limitation (16K RAM on the 5200 compared to 64K RAM on an XEGS barring having both U1MB and and XBVE upgrades done on her) but knowing that not all of us can (at this moment) afford having more than one console in our extensive lineups, I don't see what even our own @Albert won't do the simple (and right) thing of having (and allowing conversions of) all of the 5200 titles, including Tempest (yes Keithen Hayenga's Tempest), available for at least the XL/XE through the AA store on cart, I would more than gladly put down the $$$ and so would many others here. Adventure II already has been released for XL/XE, why not Tempest?

I couldn't know the exact answer to that. It could simply be time or platform exclusivity or wishes of the publisher. Maybe even dilution is a factor.

 

When I discovered Doom back in the 1990's I was blown away by the graphics and engrossing gameplay. An all-time favorite and staple of vintage PC gaming for myself and many others.

 

I've since seen Doom ported to many many other platforms. And I especially dislike the console conversions. They all suck. Something is always lost or compromised on in these ports. None match the aura & atmosphere of Doom on PC. The disk access, the SoundBlaster16 sound characteristics, the low resolution graphics, keyboard play, exploring and figuring out the level-wide (but simple) puzzles. The challenges of making your weapons and health last through a level.. And the ability to load additional levels, sounds, and graphics, all of that.. And more. All added up to an incomparable experience.

 

The only alluring "conversion" of Doom would be like ZDoom. It brings everything of Original Doom forward to the modern OS and hardware. It's special because everything remains the same. Nothing is lost. It uses the same data files as the original. It provides some enhancement, if the player wants to play with the options. At heart it's still Doom on the PC.

 

I see it as an upgrade of the code. In fact I'd argue it's necessary. Not everyone is going to buy a 486 just for Doom. And not everyone is savvy enough to fine-tune DosBox to recreate a 90's virtual PC.

 

I will also say the same about Apogee's Raptor: Call of The Shadows, and Interplay's Descent. PC only!

 

Quote

..but somebody can sure as hell make the more than 20-25 titles that are 5200-only games available on the XEGS. That's my case.

They certainly can. It's really just a matter of someone wanting to make a project out of it. You never know what the future holds.

 

Today the problem is alleviated somewhat through the likes of Altirra. Altirra sports XEGS, 400/800, XL/XE, and 5200 coverage. One virtualization program covers several platforms. It's how I like it. Though I do understand everyone isn't ready for emulation just yet. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Keatah

[BIGHMW]

1 hour ago, Keatah said:

Developers' rights is a huge topic with so many angles. But I tend to agree that dev rights and publisher rights have caused many a disappointment when I was a kid wanting game X on system Y.

 

I couldn't know the exact answer to that. It could simply be time or platform exclusivity or wishes of the publisher. Maybe even dilution is a factor.

 

When I discovered Doom back in the 1990's I was blown away by the graphics and engrossing gameplay. An all-time favorite and staple of vintage PC gaming for myself and many others.

 

I've since seen Doom ported to many many other platforms. And I especially dislike the console conversions. They all suck. Something is always lost or compromised on in these ports. None match the aura & atmosphere of Doom on PC. The disk access, the SoundBlaster16 sound characteristics, the low resolution graphics, keyboard play, exploring and figuring out the level-wide (but simple) puzzles. The challenges of making your weapons and health last through a level.. And the ability to load additional levels, sounds, and graphics, all of that.. And more. All added up to an incomparable experience.

 

The only alluring "conversion" of Doom would be like ZDoom. It brings everything of Original Doom forward to the modern OS and hardware. It's special because everything remains the same. Nothing is lost. It uses the same data files as the original. It provides some enhancement, if the player wants to play with the options. At heart it's still Doom on the PC.

 

I see it as an upgrade of the code. In fact I'd argue it's necessary. Not everyone is going to buy a 486 just for Doom. And not everyone is savvy enough to fine-tune DosBox to recreate a 90's virtual PC.

 

I will also say the same about Apogee's Raptor: Call of The Shadows, and Interplay's Descent. PC only!

 

They certainly can. It's really just a matter of someone wanting to make a project out of it. You never know what the future holds.

 

Today the problem is alleviated somewhat through the likes of Altirra. Altirra sports XEGS, 400/800, XL/XE, and 5200 coverage. One virtualization program covers several platforms. It's how I like it. Though I do understand everyone isn't ready for emulation just yet. 

Yeah but can Altirra be hooked up to a TV like a console can via RF, composite or HDMI? Can it use OEM controllers like an OG console can? Can the new VCS utilize this technology without Atari SA crippling it somehow via some bullshit "firmware upgrade"? That is why (in the same way some Republicans are anti-vax) I am anti-VCS. I am worried about what these companies can encrypt in their systems with today's technology. you see unlike the good-old days, where you found a way around macro-vision with that "black box" (a.k.a. "video enhancer" like my Sima CT-200 GoDVD!) for copying VHS movies from your VCR to DVD-R on a DVD recorder, or some other box you bought over at Guitar Center or through Musician's Friend BITD like I did (like my CO-3 interface from M-Audio) to get rid of SCMS to make digital copies of protected CDs onto MiniDisc or vice versa, there's got to be a way around that new bullshit HDCP they now cripple Blu-Ray/Roku/Fire Stick/cable/satellite boxes with that prevents us from recording things. Where there's a will, there's always a way.

[Keatah]

43 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:

Yeah but can Altirra be hooked up to a TV like a console can via RF, composite or HDMI?

Pretty much any PC, especially the SmallFormFactor NUCs from Intel connect to any modern TV via HDMI cable. Pretty much trouble-free. RF is a bygone tech, as is composite. And most emulators have provisions for carefully degrading the image for an old-school RF look.

 

Beauty part is it's all in the digital domain and consistent throughout the years, decades even. I'm rather pleased with the results.

 

43 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:

Can it use OEM controllers like an OG console can?

You can use adapters and BlissBox-like-stuff to get old school controllers going. There's all kinds of possibilities here. But plugging in OG controllers directly to a PC? Not without an adapter.

 

I'm happy using modern equivalents for reliability.

 

43 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:

Can the new VCS utilize this technology without Atari SA crippling it somehow via some bullshit "firmware upgrade"? That is why (in the same way some Republicans are anti-vax) I am anti-VCS.

Well I see the VCS as a set-top-box, and not a whole hell heckuvalot more. I stick with as much open stuff as possible. Or stuff that supports tools to get the job I want done.

 

So far the VCS has nothing too compelling on it that I want.

 

43 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:

I am worried about what these companies can encrypt in their systems with today's technology. 

Where there's a will, there's always a way.

You bet. There's always ways around whatever roadblocks they throw up.

[zzip]

13 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

Yeah but can Altirra be hooked up to a TV like a console can via RF, composite or HDMI? Can it use OEM controllers like an OG console can? Can the new VCS utilize this technology without Atari SA crippling it somehow via some bullshit "firmware upgrade"?

"PC-mode" was always one of the advertised features of the VCS, so if Atari were to decide to break that with some firmware update it would result in a lot of pissed-off users.   This isn't like other consoles where if someone figures out how to jailbreak them and run another OS, the manufacturer issues a patch to stop the exploit from working.   The VCS was always meant to be used in this manner.

Edited December 25, 2021 by zzip

[jerseystyle]

On 12/24/2021 at 11:10 AM, BIGHMW said:

@Stephen, In the music business that's called doing a "cover" of it, perfectly fine to most folks. It may be blasphemy to some that bands/artists do renditions of other bands'/artists' work but it's perfectly within their own right. Doing either an A8-to-5200 or 5200-to-A8 conversion is the same way. Just change a few codes on the program to make it work with that console and VOILA!!!

 

Besides, if anyone wants to do a cover of either an AK47 or Heavy Metal Warrior/S.M.F. song I don't mind at all. As both I have done countless covers of other bands'/artists' work both in studio and on stage, and nobody has said anything about it........ yet. It's the nature of the Beast.

 

Nothing says that White Zombie can't do a cover of Black Sabbath's "Children Of The Grave" 

Wait, you’ve been a “Legend” in the music industry for 28 years and don’t know what licensing is? I’m calling BS. You wanna cover a bands song and release it on an album, you gotta get permission and acquire licensing, usually by paying upfront or a percentage. Same if you sample an artists work. Just because you “rapped” over sampled stuff and weren’t called out in it doesn’t make it legal, or ethical, unless those artists gave you permission. Same as what you keep trying to get people to do here. Respect artists. Respect developers. 

[BIGHMW]

53 minutes ago, jerseystyle said:

Wait, you’ve been a “Legend” in the music industry for 28 years and don’t know what licensing is? I’m calling BS. You wanna cover a bands song and release it on an album, you gotta get permission and acquire licensing, usually by paying upfront or a percentage. Same if you sample an artists work. Just because you “rapped” over sampled stuff and weren’t called out in it doesn’t make it legal, or ethical, unless those artists gave you permission. Same as what you keep trying to get people to do here. Respect artists. Respect developers. 

Well, a legend here in Port Townsend, considering the impact I made on people especially young people I made here in my career, and while I may be a little bit naive about "publishing rights" and all that legal BS mumbo jumbo, I sure have made a name for myself here in this neck of the woods. Perhaps if I was living in "the big city" a.k.a. L.A. (my old stomping grounds, born in 1966 and raised in until 1987) or Seattle or NYC, perhaps I might've gotten noticed a bit more than I should've been even many years ago. But yes, I DO get very angry and frustrated when guys like Justin Bieber, One Direction and BTS are revered as "gods" and I get CONSTANTLY thrown under the bus in favor of everybody else coming up along the way.

 

I even tried getting (yes we DID go to high school together back in the 1980s) Cindy Margolis to advocate on my behalf as she is the only one I know of from my past who made it big and I was hoping that maybe at my age (55 as I am writing this) she could hopefully salvage whatever is left in my career in this business so I can somehow get that ONE LAST SHOT in it. I KNOW I have one last album (the still-on final album as AK47, "Still Ruthless") left in me, I plan on starting recording it if I can ever pull my head out of my duff and motivate myself into doing it. I know we're in a day and age of streaming where nobody buys CDs anymore but I know that I can somehow crack through if I put in the effort.

[Albert]

On 12/24/2021 at 5:24 PM, BIGHMW said:

That is why (in the same way some Republicans are anti-vax) I am anti-VCS.

Please keep politics off AtariAge, thank you.

 

 ..Al

[BIGHMW]

31 minutes ago, Albert said:

Please keep politics off AtariAge, thank you.

 

 

@Albert I understand where you're coming from but I was strictly using that simply as an analogy to the fact that I am still a bit out on the VCS as far as its 6502 emulating capabilities were concerned. The political reference was unintentional.

[Albert]

10 minutes ago, BIGHMW said:

@Albert I understand where you're coming from but I was strictly using that simply as an analogy to the fact that I am still a bit out on the VCS as far as its 6502 emulating capabilities were concerned. The political reference was unintentional.

Did you not type, "Republicans are anti-vax" above?  Seems pretty intentional to me and it certainly is political.  Please do not do this again in the future.

 

 ..Al

[Tempest]

Is it just me or has this conversation gone completely off topic?  I thought this was supposed to be about the game list that was posted in the first post?

[SINGLE TOOTH]

I wonder if that list was stored on a mainframe?