Flickering Sprites

[SpaceHunter]

Hello All,

 

I originally posted this question on the Intellivision Discord channel.

 

I'm creating a game, Meteor Mission III (MM3) based on the classic TRS-80 version by Big Five Software, with lots of asteroids, that use software sprites, which at times will flicker when passing through each other.   How do people fill about sprites that flicker (very little) in their games?  Is it tolerable, or consider a BIG no no?

[+cmadruga]

It depends. How bad is it?

 

 

[SpaceHunter]

Here's a short video...

 

 

This is very early in development.

[Kiwi]

5 minutes ago, SpaceHunter said:

Here's a short video...

This is fine.  It only flicker when overlapping due to software sprites.

[+Gemintronic]

It's not bad.  But, I'm wondering if you could implement some flicker mitigation by picking the origin points of rocks to avoid being in the same horizontal band as other rocks.  Or, even allowing the rocks to float up or down as needed to avoid being in the same row as other rocks.

[+DZ-Jay]

10 hours ago, Gemintronic said:

It's not bad.  But, I'm wondering if you could implement some flicker mitigation by picking the origin points of rocks to avoid being in the same horizontal band as other rocks.  Or, even allowing the rocks to float up or down as needed to avoid being in the same row as other rocks.

I agree.  You may want to try to avoid overlapping the rocks at all, and only resort to flicker when avoiding horizontally aligned sprites would not be practical.

 

     -dZ.

[mr_me]

It doesn't look like you're using all eight hardware sprites.  Use one hardware sprite in place of one of the flickering software sprites.

[SpaceHunter]

Thanks All!

 

I was just curious to read how people felt about the sprite flickering.

 

mr_me:  The design of the game will require all 8 sprites to be used.

 

1 - Spaceship / Ship Explosion

1 - Spaceship Missile

1 - Thrust / Astronaut

2 - Spaceport

1 - Meteor Storm / Asteroid Explosion

1 - Platform Landning Pad

1 - UFO

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by SpaceHunter

[mmarrero]

You can try alternating colliding cards in odd/even frames. They will flicker bad and look transparent, but both will be visible.
You can also try 1 hw sprite on overlapping rock. If more than one, pick the closest to player.

 

In Princess Lydie I tried to avoid card flicker by having enemies change direction.

[fsuinnc]

First,  I want to say what you have so far looks great. 

 

Looks like the old arcade game "Lunar Rescue" which is one of my favorites.  (As suggested previously) you might want to look at just making it so the sprites don't overlap. 

 

 

 

[SpaceHunter]

Yes, I believe this was the true original and Big Five Software came out with their version of it for the Trash 80.

Edited January 2, 2022 by SpaceHunter

[+DZ-Jay]

2 hours ago, SpaceHunter said:

Thanks All!

 

I was just curious to read how people felt about the sprite flickering.

I personally think it cheapens a game.  It is also not part of the Intellivision tradition, since it was something that Mattel was against back in the day.

 

I think there may be other approaches, techniques, or mechanics that work better on Intellivision games.

 

   dZ.

[SpaceHunter]

Well, the obvious approach would be to limit the number of asteroids, but as I said earlier, I'm trying to keep the game design close to the original.  The problem I have with minimal sprites, such as in  Astrosmash, it's just a little too boring,  today, for me that is.  However, the 70s' / 80's were a different time, and I think it was acceptable then because it was new.

Edited January 2, 2022 by SpaceHunter

[+DZ-Jay]

14 minutes ago, SpaceHunter said:

Well, the obvious approach would be to limit the number of asteroids, but as I said earlier, I'm trying to keep the game design close to the original.  The problem I have with minimal sprites, such as in  Astrosmash, it's just a little too boring,  today, for me that is.  However, the 70s' / 80's were a different time, and I think it was acceptable then because it was new.

There may be other ways rather than the obvious.  Also, there are many other games apart from Astrosmash, including some home-brews, to compare in terms of visual complexity.

 

To me, converting a game across platforms should play to the target platform's strengths, and not necessarily try to replicate every single aspect just to fill a quota.

 

A few other suggestions were mentioned:  mitigate overlap by avoiding horizontal alignment, use software sprites drawn in background, etc.

 

You could try to avoid the "obvious" solution by masking your intent.  For instance, you could align asteroids that would overlap, to card boundaries, and then replace one temporarily with a background card to avoid flicker.

It's your game, of course, but since you asked how people would feel about sprite flicker, you may want to consider that since it is a rare occurrence on Intellivision games, it may be off putting or distracting to some.  So, minimizing it to the greatest extent possible may be your best bet.

 

    dZ.

Edited January 2, 2022 by DZ-Jay

[SpaceHunter]

All good points, thank you.

 

I think for the moment I will keep with what I have and add the other elements that are missing and revisit the problem.  I do think that permitting asteroids per row (as other's have mentioned)  and not allow them to cross each other could work, but I really want to find a solution for the asteroids to intersect as in the BFS version.

 

Perhaps I will figure out something that will work.

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by SpaceHunter

[SpaceHunter]

22 minutes ago, DZ-Jay said:

You could try to avoid the "obvious" solution by masking your intent.  For instance, you could align asteroids that would overlap, to card boundaries, and then replace one temporarily with a background card to avoid flicker.

 

This may be the answer, however would require much more work, but, it is what it is.

[+DZ-Jay]

2 hours ago, SpaceHunter said:

This may be the answer, however would require much more work, but, it is what it is.

I completely understand.  Sometimes the best solutions, apart from non-obvious, require much more work.  You need to balance the effort with your goals and other priorities, of course.

 

   dZ.

[mr_me]

19 hours ago, SpaceHunter said:

Thanks All!

 

I was just curious to read how people felt about the sprite flickering.

 

mr_me:  The design of the game will require all 8 sprites to be used.

 

1 - Spaceship / Ship Explosion

1 - Spaceship Missile

1 - Thrust / Astronaut

2 - Spaceport

1 - Meteor Storm / Asteroid Explosion

1 - Platform Landning Pad

1 - UFO

 

What does the platform landing pad sprite do?

[SpaceHunter]

I use a sprite (right above the platform) to determine where the spaceship has landed.  I use it for collision detection.

[+DZ-Jay]

4 minutes ago, SpaceHunter said:

I use a sprite (right above the platform) to determine where the spaceship has landed.  I use it for collision detection.

What do you mean?  You can test collisions against background cards as well ...

[SpaceHunter]

Yes, I can, but, I check the background for asteroid collisions.

It may be difficult to see in the video, but, there is a thin green 1x8 sprite that hover's right above the platform as the spaceship approaches for landing.  I use it to check for collision (ship landing on platform), but also as a visual que to the player where he may land.

[SpicedUp!]

I am a novice so what I say may not be possible. But can you calculate and then draw the overlap in real-time using user defined background tabs? People were telling me here that the radar in Intellivision Defender is drawn like this.

 

Or to avoid a lot of calculations : Again using background tabs : pre-draw the animation of the objects overlapping and limit the overlaps to a few set situations to avoid using too much ROM space. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by SpicedUp!