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Which is better, hundreds of THE BEST titles, or thousands of the best titles??? The 5200 vs. XEGS Debate


BIGHMW

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Ironically enough, here it is yet another 5200 vs. A8/XEGS debate thread, and if you ask me, as much as I like both systems I know that Atarians are split as far as which console they would settle for. if it came down to one or the other (if it had to be one), but does anyone have room or time in their lifetime to try out or even sample all of the thousands of titles that A8/XEGS owners have been spoiled with for the past 43 years???

 

Now we 5200 owners, have our own fair share of great titles, and while the majority of them are improved versions of their A8/XEGS counterparts, mainly like Paul Lay's conversion of Asteroids, as well as, notably, Centipede, Dig Dug, and Qix, there are about 20 5200-only ports that are not available for A8/XEGS owners to play yet. But yet, on the other side there are so many great games on the A8/XEGS that we Big Sexy owners wish we had but are not remotely available due to them either not being ported over yet, or because of the 5200's RAM limitations (16K for the 5200 vs. 64K for the XL/XE/XEGS).

 

...amd hopefully that time will come soon enough, there are a few than CAN actually be converted. it's just a matter of awareness of what those titles are as well as maybe, especially in my case since I sometimes have a tendency of becoming impatient, a little bit of waiting time. If we ask for them in a more diplomatic way to be converted maybe people, like myself especially, SHOULD, exercise some of that same exact sentiment, and be thankful to those who do when they eventually port them over as well. :) 

 

And, in this case, as much as I like most of those same A8/XEGS-only ports, while most of them should be converted, the fact is many of them, like WarGames, Dr. Mario, Yoomp!, Gacek, Arkanoid, and Food Fight, can't. But then again, we Big Sexy owners should be proud of what we DO have, for over the past 35 years, starting from when only a mere 69 titles were available from the 5200's birth in October 1982, until the discontinuation of software production in 1987, thanks to the many homebrewers like V61/Atari Sales' Peter Meyer @peteym5, Glurkvision's @glurk and Phaser Cat Games' @Ryan Witmer with their brilliant original and 5200-adapted ports, as well as guys like @Wrathchild, Paul Lay @playsoft, Steven Tucker @classics, and others with their masterfully done A8-to-5200 conversions, as well as the releases of all of the unreleased prototypes and demos of games, like Paul Lay's magnificent Galaga port, with many of them working, playable and even finished, especially Keithen Hayenga's brilliant Tempest, finished in 2012 and available now in the AtariAge store, in which A8/XEGS owners still have not yet available to them, that number has swollen to well over 400 titles (500-600+, if you include all of the hacks made up too, that make for even more variations and challenges available for all of us to play and try out!!!). In fact, this is why despite all those titles we wish we could have, we should be very fortunate that for a system that was written off by the mainstream press as well as by the overwhelming majority of gamers even back in our day, we sure as hell, have come a long ways since then.

 

And that not only goes for just from a software standpoint. Even the CX52 controllers, as unreliable even to us 5200 owners as they were BITD, have also been improved, thanks to the gold-plated flex circuitry and gold-contact button improvements with tactile response, done up by Best Electronics, in which has become somewhat of a savior to us Atari owners regardless of what console or computer we own, as well as the flex circuit replacement/repair kits that are also available. Also count in the selection of many third-party controller options currently available to us, such as the vintage stock of controllers from Wico and Coin Controls with their Competition Pro 5000, as well as the all-new, all-original ProPaddle 2 paddle controller, the first and only real true paddle controller available for the 5200, as well as the newer selections from Retro Game Boyz, and of course, AtariAge's own Redemption 5200 interfaces, in which I hope @Albert will restock and put out yet again, especially with the availability of 3-D printers available now for almost cheap. IIRC there were 3 different versions available he put out BITD, in which allow either 2600/Sega, 7800, or PC controllers to also work with Big Sexy, as well as the Masterplay clones that are available either old stock from Electra Concepts, or from Retro Game Boyz. 

 

.....and lest we cannot also forget the top-mounted cartridge slot-loading VCS adapter in which allows 2600 games to work with the 5200 as well as the legendary CX53 Trak-Ball controller, and, that vital twin-stick controller holder for games like Robotron and Space Dungeon that need/utilize them.

 

A8/XEGS owners still can't play 2600 games on their systems to this day. They also don't have a twin controller holder either. We have both.

 

So yes WE HAVE come a long ways, and we should proudly hold our heads highly because of both that and all of these fine folks who have labored hard and long to make sure that we have ourselves a better place in home videogaming history than what was first given to us back in the 80s. 

 

Good Gaming everybody!!! Long Live Big Sexy, she will turn 40 years young this October!!!

 

Ray Jackson

Edited by BIGHMW
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1 hour ago, BIGHMW said:

Space Dungeon that need/utilize them.

 

A8/XEGS owners still can't play 2600 games on their systems to this day. They also don't have a twin controller holder either. We have both.

Well, technically the 2600 adaptor for the 5200 is a 2600 console that gets video pass through the 5200. For the size of it, might as well get a 2600 

And actually we do have a twin stick holder, it was packed in with the Robotron cart.

 

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13 minutes ago, mimo said:

Well, technically the 2600 adaptor for the 5200 is a 2600 console that gets video pass through the 5200. For the size of it, might as well get a 2600 

And actually we do have a twin stick holder, it was packed in with the Robotron cart.

 

....and well while it might be a 2600 unit the fact remains that you don't need another power adapter nor do you need another separate hookup to the TV in order to play her, simply plug n' play.

Edited by BIGHMW
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Really pointless thread.

 

I grew up on both 5200 and 8bit.

 

While related, the 8bit is a computer with games that have much depth.

 

The 5200 is a console with 8bit DNA.

 

They are both part of Atari history and family and shouldn't be argued which is better. They both have had their roles in gaming.

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Comparing the XEGS's thousands of games to the 5200's hundreds of games implies that you are counting all of the 8bit disk releases for the XEGS.   You are also counting the hundreds of digital releases (with no physical carts) for the 5200 that brings the total a lot higher.

 

It would be interesting to compare the number of physical carts - there are probably actually fewer XEGS style (light color) physical carts than 5200 physical carts.

 

How many true XEGS style carts are there?  How many total 8bit (400/800/XL) carts are there?  How many 5200 carts are there?  Include the relatively small number of homebrew physical carts for each system.

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2 hours ago, rra said:

Comparing the XEGS's thousands of games to the 5200's hundreds of games implies that you are counting all of the 8bit disk releases for the XEGS.   You are also counting the hundreds of digital releases (with no physical carts) for the 5200 that brings the total a lot higher.

 

It would be interesting to compare the number of physical carts - there are probably actually fewer XEGS style (light color) physical carts than 5200 physical carts.

 

How many true XEGS style carts are there?  How many total 8bit (400/800/XL) carts are there?  How many 5200 carts are there?  Include the relatively small number of homebrew physical carts for each system.

Yes Robert I AM (and do because they matter too) counting all of the digital releases as well as those on physical cart and disk on each. Many of the XL conversions done for the 5200 as well as the prototype releases and some limited homebrews were released on physical cart by AA as well as Good Deal Games' Homebrew Heaven and Atarimax years ago.

 

As for the total of physical carts for each the 8-bit, XEGS, and 5200 that I don't know off hand but I DO remember that from 1982-1987 only 69 total physical cartridge releases were ever put out for the 5200, obviously a bit less of the XEGS-style carts were ever put out from 1987-1992. But yes I DO have a ton of software for both XEGS/8-bit and 5200, but not all titles are on each. Despite the fact the XEGS has 4x more RAM (16K for the 5200 compared to 64K for the XEGS) it still does not have every title out there, as I have stated many times before there are about 20-25 games (mainly homebrews) that only 5200 owners can currently enjoy, and that's why I currently own both. If those 20-25 5200-only games were also available on the XEGS to use on it, then perhaps my stand would probably have been different. Besides I grew up as a 5200 owner in my days in high school in 1983, and also playing ColecoVision as well at a friend's house during that time so I was able to appreciate both. When the XEGS first came out in 1987 I didn't think too highly of it back then as I already had Big Sexy plus I was a bit naive about its 400/800/XL/XE series computer DNA she had in her, as well as its compatibility with all the back catalog of 400/800/XL games and programs on tape, disk, and cart. Plus I couldn't get one here in Port Townsend as I would have to go to Toys R Us in Silverdale and at that time I was already settled with both the 5200 and my Intellivision II I had at that time, and was already supporting both. 

 

Is one superior to the other, well as they say, "opinions are like assholes, everybody has one", some will say one is better than the other, we 5200 owners will say we had the most advanced controllers like the CX53 Trak-Ball that had all the functions ON THE CONTROLLER as opposed to on the console, XEGS owners will say they had the most overall (400/800/XL/XE combined from 1979-date) titles, and both are true. Both systems are also great, each in their own way, I'm thankful to have both units. Now I wish I didn't have to write up bullshit threads like this up here on AA all the time and have to ask for conversions all the time, but due to the top quality of the games and the way they nicely play on the 5200 as well as the sheer abundance of 8-bit titles available that would fit well under her 16K RAM limitations that COULD be converted and fit nicely into her lineup, and, if it had to be one or the other currently it would be Big Sexy. She had potential. She had a future. It's just that Warner never gave her a chance. At least after buying Atari's home videogame and computer division from Warner in 1984 Jack Tramiel salvaged her for a few more years' life before stopping development and distribution of her in 1987 in order to concentrate on the XE and ST computers and the XEGS and 7800.

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1 hour ago, BIGHMW said:

Now I wish I didn't have to write up bullshit threads like this up here on AA all the time and have to ask for conversions all the time, 

News flash as just mentioned already, YOU DON'T, this is just a selfish thing you do expecting others to spend time doing conversions for your own selfish needs instead of just being satisfied and happy with what you have. Seems acceptable to everyone else, you've said you would stop this nonsense but you either come back doing it again in either subtle or not so subtle ways and it's just getting annoying at this point. Yes, you will keep blabbing on and on and keep giving reasons and excuses BUT DON'T YOU DARE try to act like this is something you HAVE to do or that's it's something you hate doing, this is purely 100% on YOU. ?

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Not sure why everyone is hating on BIGHMW in this thread. 
From what I gather by reading these forums, he's a passionate Atari fan who yearns to see more releases for his favorite consoles.  I mean, his threads don't appear to be any more annoying than some of the "Recent Status Updates" that appear on the side of the main forums (Topics such as "I hurt my thumb today", "I should buy a new alarm clock", "I'm bored at work" or "I'm not feeling well" to the nonstop barrage of daily Garfield posts). 

If my opinions are out of line, then just chalk it up to me being a noob and carry on.
I personally don't see any reason to attack BIGHMW's threads - at the very least he opines about relevant Atari subjects.  
People should just relax...they're just video games after all.

 

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26 minutes ago, Leonard Smith said:

Not sure why everyone is hating on BIGHMW in this thread.

It's not hating.  It's being tired of nearly every thread he participates in being treated as an excuse for him to demand things that he wants, over and over and over.  Ultimately, it's a form of threadshitting and there is no reason why it needs to happen seemingly ad infinitum.

 

Believe me, if you'd been seeing this happen year after year, you'd be amazed at how often it happens - even right after he's said that he'll knock it off after being called on it again.

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30 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

It's not hating.  It's being tired of nearly every thread he participates in being treated as an excuse for him to demand things that he wants, over and over and over.  Ultimately, it's a form of threadshitting and there is no reason why it needs to happen seemingly ad infinitum.

 

Believe me, if you'd been seeing this happen year after year, you'd be amazed at how often it happens - even right after he's said that he'll knock it off after being called on it again.

Especially given he apologizes for it, makes an excuse, says he won't do it again, then two days later, does it again.  Rinse and repeat.

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Leonard hit it spot on, I DO want to see more titles, and, if I myself had the capability to be able to convert some I would. But, I computer programming is very much out of both my technical and skill realms, especially at 55 (I will be 56 this May). As @rra mentioned to me he took years to be able to learn to program and understand 6502 coding let alone how to convert from one system to another. But also he started when he was younger so he has plenty of experience.

 

But yes you guys may be right, as mentioned at the top of this thread, I SHOULD, be happy that we 5200 owners have hundreds of titles to choose from when BITD only 69 games were afforded to us from 1982-1987. And while yes admittedly while I might have ruffled a few feathers with certain programmers in a way I DID manage to get some games ported over, notably Yar's Strike, A8 Asteroids, and Star Island. There are others that could be, but at least even if they're not, I'm still sittin' fine with the fact that I own 5 different systems and if one doesn't have the game I'm looking for I could always go to yet another one in my lineup. 

 

My obsession with having to have everything on one system is in hind sight to the fact of if it ever (financially) coming down to having to settle for having only one system, plain and simple. I'm kind of caught in between one or another. But for now I don't have to worry about that, especially come income tax filing season (my W2 from my work will be coming near the end of this month), and I just might venture into acquiring some other systems, after all I just might want to create yet another videogaming YouTube channel to compliment The Atari Report only with the 4 major systems (Intv, Coleco, SMS and OG NES) that competed against Atari's 4 different systems (2600, 5200, 7800, and XEGS) during the 80s. That channel and the purchase of the other systems are still pending, after I get out of the hole and back in the plus column and all paid up with $$$ saved up I just might want to hold off on completely retiring from the entertainment industry, maybe retire form the music biz, but certainly not the other endeavors I do. I've just got to be mentally stronger than what I have shown here on these forums, I have more than one system, maybe it's about time that I know it.

Edited by BIGHMW
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You're like a broken record.  How many times are you going to repeat the same crap and how many time are people going to STILL somehow nicely ask you to stop?  My god man - it's like Groundhog Day.  Do you even remember being asked at least 2 dozen times recently to stop doing this?

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2 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

It's not hating.  It's being tired of nearly every thread he participates in being treated as an excuse for him to demand things that he wants, over and over and over.  Ultimately, it's a form of threadshitting and there is no reason why it needs to happen seemingly ad infinitum.

 

Believe me, if you'd been seeing this happen year after year, you'd be amazed at how often it happens - even right after he's said that he'll knock it off after being called on it again.


Valid points.
I just don't like to see fellow Atarians maligned.  

Either way, just sharing my thoughts based on observations.  Onward and upward.

 

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