kid_snz Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) Hi I'm Shinji, Japanese artist living in New York making contemporary art inspired by 80's classic video games. You can check what I make at followings.https://murakamishinji.com *better to see on pc https://www.instagram.com/kid_snz/ Currently I'm working on a new project where people use my paintings as the AR markers to show Javatari on their phone screens and play ATARI games in AR. The prototype which still needs a lot of fixes works like this. Yes Javatari is actually running in it! https://www.instagram.com/p/CXKAc9ULWc_/ I tried to make my own original games by learning the many resources here, but as a beginner programmer, I found it very difficult... So I decided to look for a someone has many experiences and interested in working with me. I would like to make "Pizza Boy" as my first game as the image attached. The exclamation marks are where people are waiting for a pizza. The play is like, he gets a pizza at pizza shop in the middle and delivers it there. If he get hit by cabs, he dies. If he gets a pretzel, he becomes invincible for a while. My painting as the AR marker is the main thing, so the game is simple as with only one stage. If anyone in the community has any advice for me, please let me know. Anything would be appreciated because I'm new here. Is there anyone who would be interested in this project? By the way, I would like to be nice with this community and create amazing games in the future. Arigato, Shinji The final version of the file added here. *09/23/2022 pizza-boy-20220824.zip pizza-boy.poc.bas.bin Edited September 23, 2022 by kid_snz 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dave C Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) It's a lot of work to make a full game... but - this concept + the AR project looks interesting especially if just one level. I like the style and use of colors - Atari has lots of colors for the era, nice to use them. There are some challenges you'll need to understand to make the game - the taxis and the player are 9 pixels wide, sprite is only 8 - there are only two sprites having the player carry the pizza past a taxi means three different sprites on one line, close together - similarly buildings - multiple is okay, you can make the same sprite appear up to three times, not four, but add the player and the pizza and the tree... The player + pizza + (any other graphics) is the one I'm not sure there's a nice solution without compromises. I'm thinking about the recent homebrew Doggone It, has the player delivering boxes but does some clever color changes to make the player look like they have a box in their hands. Edited January 13, 2022 by Dave C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dave C Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 I might be able to help a little bit here - I have one ask which is I have couple ideas I'm working on and would like some input on graphics - could be nothing more than just concept art but I'm also looking for some font and sprite ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid_snz Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dave C said: It's a lot of work to make a full game... but - this concept + the AR project looks interesting especially if just one level. I like the style and use of colors - Atari has lots of colors for the era, nice to use them. There are some challenges you'll need to understand to make the game - the taxis and the player are 9 pixels wide, sprite is only 8 - there are only two sprites having the player carry the pizza past a taxi means three different sprites on one line, close together - similarly buildings - multiple is okay, you can make the same sprite appear up to three times, not four, but add the player and the pizza and the tree... The player + pizza + (any other graphics) is the one I'm not sure there's a nice solution without compromises. I'm thinking about the recent homebrew Doggone It, has the player delivering boxes but does some clever color changes to make the player look like they have a box in their hands. Hi Dave, Thank you so much for that you are interested in this project and all the advice you gave me. My engineer friend talked me about the limitations of Atari, so I understand I have to make a lot of compromises. I'm very embarrassed to show this but I've attached a prototype that shows only a movable character and I knew the sprites have to be in 8 pixel width. Thank you again for your saying of using colors, but I need change it all because I actually made 48"x72" painting as attached but it doesn't work as an AR marker... it's so shame haha. It needs more contrast to work as the markers. I've played Doggone It, and yes this could be really, really helpful! I was very excited to play it. pizzaboyproto01.bas.bin Edited January 14, 2022 by kid_snz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid_snz Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 3 hours ago, Dave C said: I might be able to help a little bit here - I have one ask which is I have couple ideas I'm working on and would like some input on graphics - could be nothing more than just concept art but I'm also looking for some font and sprite ideas. I've been designing all the tile walls for Sleasforce offices around the world for about 6 years now, so I have a lot of experience in pixel design. I'm not sure if I can do what you're looking for, but of course I'd be happy to help. https://www.instagram.com/p/CNvqhvuMNlw/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CXUjWkHMATk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pat Brady Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 16 hours ago, kid_snz said: I'm very embarrassed to show this... Hi Murakami-san. I love your art. Do not be embarrassed! It is natural for a game to start small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid_snz Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Pat Brady said: Hi Murakami-san. I love your art. Do not be embarrassed! It is natural for a game to start small. Thank you so much for your saying and I will do my best. Have you ever made games? If so I wanna play it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pat Brady Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 hours ago, kid_snz said: Thank you so much for your saying and I will do my best. Have you ever made games? If so I wanna play it Check your messages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dave C Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 On 1/13/2022 at 4:56 PM, kid_snz said: I've been designing all the tile walls for Sleasforce offices around the world for about 6 years now, so I have a lot of experience in pixel design. I'm not sure if I can do what you're looking for, but of course I'd be happy to help. https://www.instagram.com/p/CNvqhvuMNlw/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CXUjWkHMATk/ Those are seriously awesome. I've been in the Salesforce building in Bellevue, WA but never past the lobby. Very very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevKelley Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 I like the artwork and the idea behind the game is really cool and promising. I immediately thought of the adult game Cat House Blues, but I'd imagine with more or different obstacles. I could definitely see a version like what you describe made in bB, maybe with SuperChip and multisprite kernel. Really cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid_snz Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 On 1/15/2022 at 11:02 AM, KevKelley said: I like the artwork and the idea behind the game is really cool and promising. I immediately thought of the adult game Cat House Blues, but I'd imagine with more or different obstacles. I could definitely see a version like what you describe made in bB, maybe with SuperChip and multisprite kernel. Really cool! Thank you for your interest and comments on my thread! I took a look at Cat House Blues and thought it was very interesting to see all the different shapes of buildings. Maybe I can use them as a reference to improve my work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dave C Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 On 1/15/2022 at 8:02 AM, KevKelley said: I like the artwork and the idea behind the game is really cool and promising. I immediately thought of the adult game Cat House Blues, but I'd imagine with more or different obstacles. I could definitely see a version like what you describe made in bB, maybe with SuperChip and multisprite kernel. Really cool! That's a good point on multisprite - I was wondering if one of the souped up bB kernels could handle most everything. I don't know how to phrase it but it's like - the buildings in the artwork are very intriguing to me... - you could make them exactly as shown with playfield graphics only and they'd be a bit chunky - you could make a compact one by combining playfield with sprites (use sprites to make the windows) - and you could have 3 but.. you need them spaced just right and it's just a little bit tricky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevKelley Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Dave C said: That's a good point on multisprite - I was wondering if one of the souped up bB kernels could handle most everything. I don't know how to phrase it but it's like - the buildings in the artwork are very intriguing to me... - you could make them exactly as shown with playfield graphics only and they'd be a bit chunky - you could make a compact one by combining playfield with sprites (use sprites to make the windows) - and you could have 3 but.. you need them spaced just right and it's just a little bit tricky... Considering the image posted, I had assumed that the player would be moving around to the various buildings but unlike the Cat House Blues game, there would be cars that would drive down the roads horizontally. That is why I would think the Super Chip with Multisprite kernel would probably be able to handle much of it. You could have a little better defined buildings using playfield (maybe no blank lines), several sprites for the various obstacles going back and forth, and then you would have a missile and ball to use for whatever. And with the size of the playfield pixels, you might be able to use them for stuff as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevKelley Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I was playing around with this idea so I edited some of my code from my Lawnboy game idea to make this little thing. Basically it uses Superchip ram, pfcolors, and no blank lines. I did not use multisprite kernel yet as I didn't have time to really modify or go through the settings of my code but uses just a simple title screen and a playfield where the Pizzaboy can ride around. I would imagine that if you want the buildings to be the same colors you wouldn't need pfcolors and could do other things (I had used that setting in Lawnboy for the stripes in the grass but I imagine it could be used to make roof colors or yellow lines in the roads or something). Here is a link to a little video just showing what it looks like and the .bas file if you wanna mess with it yourself. Looks like a fun idea to play around with. PIZZBOY_2022_01_18.bas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevKelley Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Thinking about this some more and realized the playfield I put up probably wouldn't work with the multisprite kernel because the playfield is asymmetrical. I suppose it would work with the original concept and if designed with the buildings pretty much all the same... But then the other limitations for the size of the missiles and ball might be an issue but I suppose if you have the extra sprites then that might not be a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid_snz Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 22 hours ago, Dave C said: That's a good point on multisprite - I was wondering if one of the souped up bB kernels could handle most everything. I don't know how to phrase it but it's like - the buildings in the artwork are very intriguing to me... - you could make them exactly as shown with playfield graphics only and they'd be a bit chunky - you could make a compact one by combining playfield with sprites (use sprites to make the windows) - and you could have 3 but.. you need them spaced just right and it's just a little bit tricky... I hadn't thought of combining the playfield and sprites to create graphics. So some of the buildings in the demo you sent me are flashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid_snz Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 53 minutes ago, KevKelley said: Thinking about this some more and realized the playfield I put up probably wouldn't work with the multisprite kernel because the playfield is asymmetrical. I suppose it would work with the original concept and if designed with the buildings pretty much all the same... But then the other limitations for the size of the missiles and ball might be an issue but I suppose if you have the extra sprites then that might not be a big deal. First of all, thank you so much for sharing your demo! It's very cool that it shows the title screen with my game title omg... I'm going to use that as a reference to make my own title screen. Please forgive me for my slow respond even though you have given this a lot of your time. I'm a beginner in programming, and still have a lot of learning in batari Basic, so it takes me a long time to understand what you guys are talking in this thread. As I've mentioned a bit before, I never imagined making a real game based on this design. So the design doesn't work as an AR marker and needs to be changed to have more contrast. I understand that a lot of compromises have to be made since the design completely ignores the rules of actual game making. But still, it's really cool that you've tried so many things for this. Thank you so much again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dave C Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 56 minutes ago, kid_snz said: As I've mentioned a bit before, I never imagined making a real game based on this design. So the design doesn't work as an AR marker and needs to be changed to have more contrast. I understand that a lot of compromises have to be made since the design completely ignores the rules of actual game making. But still, it's really cool that you've tried so many things for this. Thank you so much again. I think the interesting thing when I saw the art concept I thought - that looks like something that would be just about possible. The big thing with the Atari playfield is it is 40 pixels across so that limits the complexity of the graphics. So KevKelley's example shows some complex buildings within that 40 pixel space - all playfield. I had some thoughts about making the buildings more detailed using sprites but... it gets weird... It's legal to have three copies of a sprite on a line without bending any rules - but four is hard without using another sprite. And in batari basic (maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong) except for some very special effects you will have flicker if there is more than one sprite on a line that isn't the player. So... I was wondering if you could successfully combine sprite and playfield and at worst only the windows would flicker (make the sprite act as windows): (negative sprite over playfield - debug mode, yellow is sprite, purple is playfield) But - the flicker is still not the best and you have to make sure the playfield and sprite line up, which gets tricky: (fail) That makes me think the buildings should probably just be playfield. Guessing that will also make collision simpler. (big playfield buildings) Edited January 19, 2022 by Dave C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dave C Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, KevKelley said: Thinking about this some more and realized the playfield I put up probably wouldn't work with the multisprite kernel because the playfield is asymmetrical. I suppose it would work with the original concept and if designed with the buildings pretty much all the same... But then the other limitations for the size of the missiles and ball might be an issue but I suppose if you have the extra sprites then that might not be a big deal. Is there any downside to using the DPC+ kernel? That appears to check a lot of boxes (it's still kid_snz's game but I'm definitely up for helping out, I can see where understanding all the different kernels is a bit of a stretch for a beginner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Pat Brady Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Dave C said: Is there any downside to using the DPC+ kernel? That appears to check a lot of boxes (it's still kid_snz's game but I'm definitely up for helping out, I can see where understanding all the different kernels is a bit of a stretch for a beginner). DPC+ is an ARM processor in the cartridge. To emulate a DPC+ game, the emulator has to emulate the ARM processor. I don't believe Javatari currently supports it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dave C Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Pat Brady said: DPC+ is an ARM processor in the cartridge. To emulate a DPC+ game, the emulator has to emulate the ARM processor. I don't believe Javatari currently supports it. Aaah. Makes sense. I believe Javatari is a requirement here so DPC+ is no bueno. And I just thought "DPC basically has all the sprites - I just throw some sprites in some DPC sample code, crib some notes from the LawnBoy conversion and there's an easy POC..." That being said - here's a POC using DPC+ pizza-boy.dpc.bas.bin pizza-boy.dpc.bas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dave C Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) Okay this is what happens when I can't let go of an idea - multisprite version - these batari kernels really are very different... (reversed y axis - different resolution - much lower res playfield... but Javatari compatible)... pizza-boy.poc.bas pizza-boy.poc.bas.bin Edited January 19, 2022 by Dave C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevKelley Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Pat Brady said: DPC+ is an ARM processor in the cartridge. To emulate a DPC+ game, the emulator has to emulate the ARM processor. I don't believe Javatari currently supports it. I forgot about the Javatari requirement of the OP. I had used Super Chip to play around only because it gets better looking playfields and with the extra variables it can help a little. I had only recently started playing around with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevKelley Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, kid_snz said: First of all, thank you so much for sharing your demo! It's very cool that it shows the title screen with my game title omg... I'm going to use that as a reference to make my own title screen. Please forgive me for my slow respond even though you have given this a lot of your time. I'm a beginner in programming, and still have a lot of learning in batari Basic, so it takes me a long time to understand what you guys are talking in this thread. As I've mentioned a bit before, I never imagined making a real game based on this design. So the design doesn't work as an AR marker and needs to be changed to have more contrast. I understand that a lot of compromises have to be made since the design completely ignores the rules of actual game making. But still, it's really cool that you've tried so many things for this. Thank you so much again. No problem. I am also a beginner but I've kind of made it a hobby the last couple years to learn and everyone here has been very helpful. I loved the concept of AR art combined with Atari and your game idea sounds like something I'd play around with. Plus the compromises can be fun and help with the creative process. I record music using old software or weird instruments and some of my favorite things came from getting around the limitations. That is why I love the Atari so much. I was planning on messing around with this again today to see other ways to make it happen. Just curious. What do you need to make a AR marker? Can you keep you original design but maybe have a single black sprite located in the corner, like a signature, to make it work? How big does it have to be because you could do a quadruple width sprite however many pixels high to make it work maybe? Edited January 19, 2022 by KevKelley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid_snz Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Dave C said: Okay this is what happens when I can't let go of an idea - multisprite version - these batari kernels really are very different... (reversed y axis - different resolution - much lower res playfield... but Javatari compatible)... pizza-boy.poc.bas 11.59 kB · 1 download pizza-boy.poc.bas.bin 16 kB · 2 downloads It's amazing this version already allows the boy to carry the pizza, and he loses it when he touches the cabs. And I love the animation of the bicycle tires. I found it very comfortable to play on Javatari on my iPhone's Safari. Thank you so much for your support and this progress. I'll soon make AR marker with this version and share the video of actual gameplay in AR on this thread. Can't wait to see how it would work in AR. However, the current AR system we built works fine on Android phones with enough memory so far, but on iPhones it's very heavy due to out of memory, so it still needs a lot of fixes. Edited January 20, 2022 by kid_snz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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