NIKON Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just a thought about maybe offering those of us who do not the real hardware a chance to purchase a digital copy of a game ROM. I myself would be more than happy to pay for new game ROMS because the ones who put in the work of creating the game should be paid for their work. I do not know how Albert would implement that.... just a thought Your Thoughts? Cheers NIKON 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 33 minutes ago, NIKON said: I do not know how Albert would implement that.... That's coming to the AtariAge Store as soon as I get the store moved to completely new software. I am desperately eager to do that, but it's taking some time, and the forum will be updated first (soon). I have to work this out with all the individual authors as well. ..Al 19 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcsrocks Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 6 hours ago, Albert said: That's coming to the AtariAge Store as soon as I get the store moved to completely new software. I am desperately eager to do that, but it's taking some time, and the forum will be updated first (soon). I have to work this out with all the individual authors as well. ..Al That will be really great 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 11 hours ago, Albert said: That's coming to the AtariAge Store as soon as I get the store moved to completely new software. I am desperately eager to do that, but it's taking some time, and the forum will be updated first (soon). I have to work this out with all the individual authors as well. ..Al 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 I like the idea of being able to provide digital releases. Personally I like both approaches. I love being able to have a real box and cart and read the manual and display them on my shelf, but I also like the convenience of a binary to pop on to my Dragonfly and play that way too. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said: I like the idea of being able to provide digital releases. Personally I like both approaches. I love being able to have a real box and cart and read the manual and display them on my shelf, but I also like the convenience of a binary to pop on to my Dragonfly and play that way too. I wouldn't even mind a hybrid approach- a box that contains a download code 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Back Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 I love physical releases and personally will always go for that. But I understand that the shipping and space for some people makes physical unrealistic. I’d be down for a box with a cart and download or even just a download with something to display. I’ll support the developers hard work no matter what, but please try to give me carts when you can 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Glad this is in process... I'm fine with new boxed games for some systems, but for others I'm mostly BIN only. For space reasons... But I'd love to be able to give the appropriate people something for those... I just don't have room for all the boxes and such... I also don't have a problem with a delayed BIN option. New game is available for 6 months (or whatever) as a boxed only situation. And then we can get the BIN option after that. That might be good for sales if some people are worried about that hurting boxed sales? Either way, I'm patient. Whenever you get to it Albert. I know you have a LOT of things on your plate!!!! Thanx! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris1997XX Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I'm happy to see this will be a thing (hopefully) soon. I don't have any Atari consoles, especially since they're hard to come by in Europe, so it would be amazing to buy a ROM and load it up on an emulator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) Been doing classic gaming via emulation since the mid-1990's. Not about to start back with physical carts, because once I do then it'll snowball into an untractable situation of hoarding! Accumulation of everything! So I'll stick with BIN BINs. That's what the wife calls them, Buy-It-Now Binaries. Edited January 20, 2022 by Keatah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, Keatah said: BIN BINs Perfect 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 The problem with "virtual" products is people want "real" money for them. While I absolutely will not pay any money for "mainstream" digital stuff (music downloads, software downloads), I will make an exception for retro-homebrew stuff. But only if it is what I consider to be "reasonably" priced. The small size of the market drives prices too high for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cris1997XX Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, christo930 said: The problem with "virtual" products is people want "real" money for them. While I absolutely will not pay any money for "mainstream" digital stuff (music downloads, software downloads), I will make an exception for retro-homebrew stuff. But only if it is what I consider to be "reasonably" priced. The small size of the market drives prices too high for me. Obviously, people aren't gonna force you to pay 30-40 dollars for a ROM. It's not a box with manual and cartridge lmao 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 4 hours ago, christo930 said: The problem with "virtual" products is people want "real" money for them. While I absolutely will not pay any money for "mainstream" digital stuff (music downloads, software downloads), I will make an exception for retro-homebrew stuff. But only if it is what I consider to be "reasonably" priced. The small size of the market drives prices too high for me. Honestly, reading this it seems that some people forget that the development of the aforementioned "virtual" ROM requires hundreds or, for more ambitious projects, a few thousand hours of "real work", regardless of whether the ROM is distributed in digital form or physical edition. But no problem, in fact you can buy the digital ROM with your credit card and therefore pay with "virtual money". Among other things, it should be superfluous to remember that the ROM purchased via download will be permanently (physically) in your hard disk and it is exactly the same ROM contained in the physical cartridge. Now we could ask ourselves if the cartridge will fail first or if the hard disk will fail first but in the latter case you can easily make backup copies. Of course, some original PS1 CDs are starting to become unreadable so we certainly can't call them "virtual" but simply "Disc rot". That said, I love physical cartridges. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 54 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: Among other things, it should be superfluous to remember that the ROM purchased via download will be permanently (physically) in your hard disk and it is exactly the same ROM contained in the physical cartridge. That's right. It's the same code regardless where it's stored. And I prefer the ROM for its versatility, convenience, and longevity. 55 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said: Now we could ask ourselves if the cartridge will fail first or if the hard disk will fail first but in the latter case you can easily make backup copies. Backups are totally required and key to longevity. A spinner won't last as long as a masked ROM or PROM. But migrating across a series of spinners throughout the decades and even centuries, well, ha! That beats just about anything out there. And through this conversion/migration, any given game will be playable long after the last console fails to power on. Additionally (and recommended) a ROM file can be saved in multiple locations. Averting local disaster and all that.. if it's super important to you. There've been a couple of rare times where I had an HDD issue or made a mistake that blew-up my whole rig and stuff. But with a backup at hand I was able to have some soup and quiet downtime while it all restored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 28 minutes ago, Keatah said: Backups are totally required and key to longevity. A spinner won't last as long as a masked ROM or PROM. But migrating across a series of spinners throughout the decades and even centuries, well, ha! Yeah, by the way most of us already have an SSD... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 6 hours ago, Defender_2600 said: Yeah, by the way most of us already have an SSD... And multiple backups, local and cloud-based. Bring on the ROM sales, Albert. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Defender_2600 said: Honestly, reading this it seems that some people forget that the development of the aforementioned "virtual" ROM requires hundreds or, for more ambitious projects, a few thousand hours of "real work", regardless of whether the ROM is distributed in digital form or physical edition. But no problem, in fact you can buy the digital ROM with your credit card and therefore pay with "virtual money". Among other things, it should be superfluous to remember that the ROM purchased via download will be permanently (physically) in your hard disk and it is exactly the same ROM contained in the physical cartridge. Now we could ask ourselves if the cartridge will fail first or if the hard disk will fail first but in the latter case you can easily make backup copies. Of course, some original PS1 CDs are starting to become unreadable so we certainly can't call them "virtual" but simply "Disc rot". That said, I love physical cartridges. No, I don't forget. That's why I said the small market drives prices up. if you're selling a million, all the upfront labor of creating the game is spread out across a million sales. Spread out across a few hundred, means each sale has to be for more money. This economic reality drives the high costs. I get it. Doesn't mean I want to or can afford to pay it. It ABSOLUTELY does not de-legitimize my or any other person's thoughts on it. When you said this: "Among other things, it should be superfluous to remember that the ROM purchased via download will be permanently (physically) in your hard disk and it is exactly the same ROM contained in the physical cartridge." You are forgetting that a cartridge can be sold. Once you buy a ROM, its value is zero. With a cartridge, I can play the game till I get bored of it and then sell it off to the next person. Edited January 21, 2022 by christo930 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 8 hours ago, Keatah said: Backups are totally required and key to longevity. A spinner won't last as long as a masked ROM or PROM. But migrating across a series of spinners throughout the decades and even centuries, well, ha! That beats just about anything out there. And through this conversion/migration, any given game will be playable long after the last console fails to power on. Let's make this about music, as that will probably not "offend" as much around here. Being of an older generation (probably like most around here, Gen-X), I cannot wrap my head (well, I can conceptualize it, but it always feels wrong) around the idea that I am buying a "license" to listen to a song when I am buying a 45 record, a cassingle or CD single. In my mind, I am buying the medium. I can hold it in my hand. I can use the 45 or CD as a frisbee. I can lend it to my buddy. It physically occupies space. I can stack them. Paying for a file on my harddisk just seem ludicrous to me. I have always viewed software in the same way. It has functioned the same way. If I download software, then I don't own it. But if I buy it, I have the CD/diskette as something physically in my possession which confers ownership. if I sell it, I no longer have it. So when I buy a record/tape/CD, that is the "thing" I am buying and what I do with it is put it in a device that can generate music from the "thing" I bought. but the "thing" is what I actual own/control/possess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 10 hours ago, Defender_2600 said: Honestly, reading this it seems that some people forget that the development of the aforementioned "virtual" ROM requires hundreds or, for more ambitious projects, a few thousand hours of "real work", regardless of whether the ROM is distributed in digital form or physical edition. But no problem, in fact you can buy the digital ROM with your credit card and therefore pay with "virtual money". Among other things, it should be superfluous to remember that the ROM purchased via download will be permanently (physically) in your hard disk and it is exactly the same ROM contained in the physical cartridge. Now we could ask ourselves if the cartridge will fail first or if the hard disk will fail first but in the latter case you can easily make backup copies. Of course, some original PS1 CDs are starting to become unreadable so we certainly can't call them "virtual" but simply "Disc rot". That said, I love physical cartridges. There's no reason the rom couldn't come in a nice box either, either as a download code or on a cheap low capacity thumb drive. I think that might help some people feel better about their purchase rather than just downloading a rom and PDF. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, zzip said: There's no reason the rom couldn't come in a nice box either, either as a download code or on a cheap low capacity thumb drive. I think that might help some people feel better about their purchase rather than just downloading a rom and PDF. A couple days ago I was watching this RMC video on his "shop" being a MiSTer front-end, and had some similar ideas... ...one can easily imagine a similar implementation of software "cards". Each card could be encoded with a few redundant rom sources - QR codes, NFC, .etc. (and perhaps a unique license key one could use for manual download.) Waving/scanning the cards at your front end would launch the game locally if it's present, or otherwise download and launch the game, storing it locally for later access. For some people, these collectable cards would be a nice bridge between carts and roms. I don't doubt for others it would be annoying, but you don't need to use the interface if you don't like it. The trick is getting the functionality into your favourite emulators or front-ends. We have all of the talent needed at AA to get this done on all of the Atari platforms, but no idea about the drive. I suspect the proportion of people just wanting free roms vs those willing to pay, will make the development effort not worthwhile. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 1 hour ago, zzip said: There's no reason the rom couldn't come in a nice box either, either as a download code or on a cheap low capacity thumb drive. I think that might help some people feel better about their purchase rather than just downloading a rom and PDF. I had an idea like this a couple of years back when I was thinking about releasing Tyre Trax as a Physical - Digital release (heh or a "Phidgital" -I'll get my coat..). I wanted to see what I could put together as an option for folks who didn't want a cart as I had a small number of folks ask. I made these mock ups as a bit of a fun experiment and then put it back in my desk drawer and forgot about them until this reminded me. Here they are in their rough glory 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said: I had an idea like this a couple of years back when I was thinking about releasing Tyre Trax as a Physical - Digital release (heh or a "Phidgital" -I'll get my coat..). I wanted to see what I could put together as an option for folks who didn't want a cart as I had a small number of folks ask. I made these mock ups a couple of years ago for a bit of fun and then put it back in my desk drawer and forgot about them until this reminded me. Here they are in their rough glory Although I prefer carts, I do like this Phidgital idea.? I already buy ROMs (mostly for my INTY II). I'd be interested in ROMs with a printed manual, especially the quality of manuals that Al gets. I like the SD "Cart" too. I'd pay for this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christo930 Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 29 minutes ago, sramirez2008 said: Although I prefer carts, I do like this Phidgital idea.? I already buy ROMs (mostly for my INTY II). I'd be interested in ROMs with a printed manual, especially the quality of manuals that Al gets. I like the SD "Cart" too. I'd pay for this. This is actually a pretty good idea. The downside though, is that a customer can buy it, copy the ROM easily and then sell the original kit. Granted, you can copy cartridges pretty easily with the right equipment, but most people don't have the right equipment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 38 minutes ago, sramirez2008 said: I like the SD "Cart" too. I'd pay for this. Oh wow, I didn't even notice that was an SD card. That's awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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