5200 controllers: what are the odds that...

[+x=usr(1536)]

Entertain me on this; I'm a 5200 pseudovirgin and could use a bit of otherwise adult opinion on this one. ?

 

What are the odds that two different controllers work fine in all four cardinal directions, but none of the fire, keypad, or control buttons work?  This is on a 2-port, with both controllers tested in port 1.

 

Note that I'm under no illusions that replacement of the mylars and keypads with gold-dot units are likely required, but humour me on this one if you'd be so kind.

[ave1]

Your situation is common due to old controllers getting oxidation of the internal button contact points.  The contact points can be cleaned with rubbing alcohol and that'll temporarily get things working (unless the flex circuit is shot) for a while.  

 

Here's my tutorial video on this:

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

Yep, that's more or less what I figured the case to be.  Mainly, I just wanted to make sure that the symptoms I'm seeing match the usual failure modes.  Appreciate the confirmation.

[+Cafeman]

Yes the same thing has happened to me many times. The sticks always work but various keypad, fire buttons, or control buttons don’t. It only takes five or 10 minutes to take it apart and do a cleaning on the contact points. Sometimes it’s harder to put it back together than it is to take it apart. I used to use a pencil eraser and that also worked.  

[0078265317]

When I was a kid it was really frustrating.  The fire buttons stopped working on my 4 port and even my cousins 2 port.  So I never got missile command to work.  And jungle hunt never worked either because you couldn't swing the vines with out the side buttons.  Some of AVE1's video (and partly my discovery too) of alternative controllers were awesome and really helpful in resurecting my 5200 and memories of back then.  Any the masterly clone with keypad I got off eBay years ago helped also.

[rayik]

14 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Entertain me on this; I'm a 5200 pseudovirgin and could use a bit of otherwise adult opinion on this one. ?

 

What are the odds that two different controllers work fine in all four cardinal directions, but none of the fire, keypad, or control buttons work?  This is on a 2-port, with both controllers tested in port 1.

 

Note that I'm under no illusions that replacement of the mylars and keypads with gold-dot units are likely required, but humour me on this one if you'd be so kind.

 

It's normal.  No need to get a rebuild kit. Just take the controller apart and clean the mylars and black dots with a pencil eraser.  They will them work fine.  Just plan on doing that every couple of years.

[+x=usr(1536)]

4 hours ago, Cafeman said:

Yes the same thing has happened to me many times. The sticks always work but various keypad, fire buttons, or control buttons don’t. It only takes five or 10 minutes to take it apart and do a cleaning on the contact points. Sometimes it’s harder to put it back together than it is to take it apart. I used to use a pencil eraser and that also worked.  

Understood, and thanks.  FWIW, I just did a third round of eraser-based cleaning on my sample stick (I have four, but am concentrating on one for now) and the results were variable.  May give contact cleaner a shot later and see how it goes.

3 hours ago, rayik said:

It's normal.  No need to get a rebuild kit. Just take the controller apart and clean the mylars and black dots with a pencil eraser.  They will them work fine.  Just plan on doing that every couple of years.

True, but there's also only so much time I want to put into these as a project.  It may only take a few minutes to clean the mylars, but also factor in testing time, disassembly / reassembly, and multiply that by four and it becomes more significant.  There's an RF snow issue I still need to chase down on this machine, as well as a UAV to go in it, and so on.  And that's not counting all of the non-5200 projects laying around.

[BIGHMW]

I'll try this technique on my Wico Command Control 5200 keypad, in which has despite the tactile buttons is built in almost the same way. Would using an eraser work on those contacts too knowing they are of that same design? None of them currently work, other than the start/pause/reset buttons in which are different and are actual physical switches

[+x=usr(1536)]

Did a combination of manual and chemical cleaning on the two controllers that currently aren't packed away.  Results:

 

Manual: multiple passes with an eraser got the following buttons working: keypad (all), lower left fire button (intermittently).  No function buttons work.

 

Chemical: shot the mylar with QD Electronic Cleaner and wiped down.  Cleaned carbon dots with IPA.  Entire keypad works.  No fire or function buttons working.

 

Hit the stick that had been given the manual treatment with contact cleaner.  No change.

 

Did a quick pass on the one that had been given the chemical treatment with an eraser.  No change.

 

I'm pretty much done fiddling with these for tonight, but replacement mylars are looking more and more appealing (and necessary).

[leech]

On 1/14/2022 at 8:51 PM, x=usr(1536) said:

Entertain me on this; I'm a 5200 pseudovirgin and could use a bit of otherwise adult opinion on this one. ?

 

What are the odds that two different controllers work fine in all four cardinal directions, but none of the fire, keypad, or control buttons work?  This is on a 2-port, with both controllers tested in port 1.

 

Note that I'm under no illusions that replacement of the mylars and keypads with gold-dot units are likely required, but humour me on this one if you'd be so kind.

I got one of those iCode adapters recently as I was wondering how to configure up an emulator.  But for sure it was the same thing, joysticks worked fine, the buttons were mostly problematic.  I had some kit with new buttons and mylars sitting around from forever ago, that I hadn't put in yet because the controllers worked fine when I got the 5200.  So last night I replaced one of them, it's fairly easy.

[MIKE5200]

20 hours ago, leech said:

I got one of those iCode adapters recently as I was wondering how to configure up an emulator.  But for sure it was the same thing, joysticks worked fine, the buttons were mostly problematic.  I had some kit with new buttons and mylars sitting around from forever ago, that I hadn't put in yet because the controllers worked fine when I got the 5200.  So last night I replaced one of them, it's fairly easy.

I would get the Gold mylar kits. Some of those old ones have break traces. What ver of mylar do you have?

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 minutes ago, MIKE5200 said:

I would get the Gold mylar kits.

That's the plan.  There are a couple of keyboard mylars I need to order as well, so will do them both in one shot.

3 minutes ago, MIKE5200 said:

Some of those old ones have break traces. What ver of mylar do you have?

Without opening the controllers up again, I want to say Rev. 7.  That's going purely from memory, though.  Can confirm later tonight.

[leech]

6 minutes ago, MIKE5200 said:

I would get the Gold mylar kits. Some of those old ones have break traces. What ver of mylar do you have?

Both the ones I have and the gold ones look to be Rev 9.  The ones in the controller were Rev 7.

Edited January 18, 2022 by leech

[MIKE5200]

On 1/15/2022 at 12:30 AM, ave1 said:

Your situation is common due to old controllers getting oxidation of the internal button contact points.  The contact points can be cleaned with rubbing alcohol and that'll temporarily get things working (unless the flex circuit is shot) for a while.  

 

Here's my tutorial video on this:

 

Hi ave,ttt

    I notice a color in your Mylar kit was different then what i'm using? My Mylar are green gold

 

[MIKE5200]

6 hours ago, leech said:

Both the ones I have and the gold ones look to be Rev 9.  The ones in the controller were Rev 7.

There petty old then. I started out with Rev 7 playing in the HSC they wore out the traces

[leech]

3 hours ago, MIKE5200 said:

There petty old then. I started out with Rev 7 playing in the HSC they wore out the traces

Yeah, I decided I should just get some gold ones.  I should also order some double sided tape, so the keypad portion actually sticks correctly ?

[MrTrust]

Fun tack and tin foil.  Costs nothing and will last for years.

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

8 minutes ago, MrTrust said:

Fun tack and tin foil.  Costs nothing and will last for years.

Unfortunately, three of the four controllers I've tested have turned out to have broken traces.  While I could bodge that, it's just not worth the time investment to do so given that the controller has to be opened up anyway to do the repairs and new mylars will probably outlast me.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

10 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Unfortunately, three of the four controllers I've tested have turned out to have broken traces.  While I could bodge that, it's just not worth the time investment to do so given that the controller has to be opened up anyway to do the repairs and new mylars will probably outlast me.

Believe it or not, I've got clients with the gold mylars that are stating to have issues with the buttons not responding again and requiring cleaning again. The issue is that the original carbon pads are also starting to wear out and that is why Steve, has a link for my vid where I go over in more detail about the foil dots/tape setup. I've doing that method for over 20years and have only had to redo my personal controllers 2 more times in that 20 years with the foil dots. So the foil isn't permanent no, but it lasts long enough that the time needed for each controller to refurb it is okay in my book considering I don't have to mess them again for several years.

 

I also go over using a meter to confirm if the traces are good or not. I've heard of some people using copper tape along with kapton to use as a flexible trace repair and also heard of people using conductor ink. But I do think that going with replacement mylar for now is the best method. But again, even with the gold you will likely find cleaning still required as grime and such still finds a way to get in there.

 

The wiring using in the 5200 controllers is crap also compared to the 2600 controllers. That has been the second most common issue for me has been internal breaks in the joystick cables themselves causing these issues. That you just have to find other controllers or try and locate neo-geo expansion cables to use as replacement donors.

 

And... I've seen the original factory mylar come in clear, green, and white colors before. The green is the most common followed by the clear or opaque, but I've seen those colors used for sure. Normally the Rev 9s come in two flavors. One is the graphte coated traces (I hate these btw as you can't really clean them without ruining them), and the standard alum traces. The graphite coated ones are usually in the white mylar color. The ones that Best sells are the Rev 9 alum trace ones (Unless you get the gold plated ones), and are usually the greenish color.

 

[MrTrust]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:37 PM, x=usr(1536) said:

Unfortunately, three of the four controllers I've tested have turned out to have broken traces. 

[Cobra Kai]

All I know is I gave up trying to fix these a long time ago and just forked over the money for the new circuits plus the gold dot pads and haven't had a problem since, at least 15 years at this point. You have to have the gold dot pad replacements, otherwise the carbon just builds up again.

[bwestdpm]

Hi anyone selling a updated 5200 controller for those of us less talented to undertake the work?

[+x=usr(1536)]

Best Electronics seems to still offer rebuilt controllers upgraded with their replacement flex circuits and buttons.  These do involve sending in old controllers in decent shape as cores, however.

 

I would suggest giving them a call (yes, really) before ordering.

[bwestdpm]

Ok thank you!!!

[CMR]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:26 PM, MrTrust said:

Fun tack and tin foil.  Costs nothing and will last for years.

 

 

How does this work?  Do you wrap the tin foil around the backer plates in the controller and put the fun tack on them?