Unable to Slow It Down

[AGiambra]

Can someone help me with an APE problem?  I was always able to slow down the boot speed so that games with copy protection would load.  I did it by going into the APE configuration menu, under MISC SETTINGS, Advanced Drive Settings and setting the drive speed to Slowest.

 

Yesterday I tried this and APE booted at exactly the same speed as before.  Nothing I do changes the speed that APE loads at.  The only difference on my PC is that recently I bought a brand new SIO2PC unit.  My old one stopped working and when I bought the new one I noticed is has two ports.  I didn't even realize when I bought it that it was a new Dual Port model.

 

Anyway, is the new unit causing this problem?  Has anyone else experienced this?  I wrote to Steven Tucker but busy guy that he is, he has not responded to me.  Thanks to anyone who can help.

[_The Doctor__]

huh? that's not where you set the divisor... that's something else entirely

I'd suggest putting whatever you played with beforehand back to where it was, and then...

 

load APE

click Options

select your device, rs232 setup, or usb setup

set sio RATE by pokey divisor...

once that's done you can mess with advanced timings to get a particular problem disk to get along nicely

 

you can also use ATX's (PRO) and Vapii.dll for your protected disks though vapi is no longer updated

Edited January 21, 2022 by _The Doctor__

[+Larry]

Perhaps you are referring to the nearly zero disk latency (behaves like a Happy drive)? Are you trying to load an ATX or maybe a PRO file?  Is APE the registered or trial version (trial version has some features crippled)?

[AGiambra]

Let me clarify what is happening to me.  Yes, I load APE.  Yes, I click Options.  Yes I go into USB settings and set RATE by pokey divisor.

 

After that, it does not matter what parameters I change in APE.  It still loads at full speed and the game refuses to load.  That is what I am saying.  APE acts as if I never touched any of its parameters.  What I am asking is, has anyone else experienced this problem who also has the Dual Port SIO2PC.  That is the only thing that has changed on my system.  I bought it new a few months ago and now APE will no longer slow down when I change its parameters.

 

And to answer Larry's questions, Yes this is a registered version of APE. I am trying to load a PRO image. It is version 3.0.13 and I used to be able to slow it down but cannot do it anymore.

Edited January 22, 2022 by AGiambra

[_The Doctor__]

I have two dual ports, two single, both usb... I also have one rs232 still working... all work fine... maybe a re install of the drivers or ape could be needed...

your APE version could use an update as well. Failing all of that, did you install vapi and do you have another PRO image of you software... you could post your PRO image for others to see if it works to rule the pro image out as the culprit.

 

You can also update the firmware on the device itself, though you stated its NOT from a long time back. If it's relatively new it should already be up to date. But it may be worth a try. The only difference in a new dual port vs old dual port is one chip no longer populates the pcb, it is a processor of some kind. It has all the same parts as any other of the devices.

 

I'd still reset everything to default, re install and do as suggested.... SIO port rate it normally global... and you can take is down as low or as high as you like. All of the latency sliders and speeds work fine for me in all windows versions up to 8.1... I do not have it on 10.

 

It's pain in the rear, but you will have to be very specific about your complete setup, machine, OS, VM's, what have you... if you operate under WINE or something like that... you are out of my wheel house.

 

You could also cut and paste all the same to Steve as well.

 

I hope you set the SIO rate under all sections of APE (serial/usb). Also, are you using any other USB to serial or vice verso devices?  Did you try software vs Hardware in the APE serial settings? Tossing some ideas out there since we are stabbing in the dark.

 

The APE version update would have to be sent special to you from steve. He would provide a link for firmware updates. But may send a new disk for the APE version itself.

Edited January 22, 2022 by _The Doctor__

[AGiambra]

Okay thanks for the reply.  I'll try to answer your questions:

 

I'm running on a DELL XPS 8940, Windows 11 with 32 Gb of RAM.  You mentioned that my APE version could use an update.  Yes I had forgotten that as an experiment I uninstalled APE and reinstalled it.  But I forgot to reinstall the latest version, which is 3.0.13.  However, I did just reinstall that newer version and my problem is not resolved.  No matter what parameters in APE that I adjust, it loads at exactly the same speed every time.

Yes I set the serial rate under all sections of APE (serial/usb) to no avail.

 

I have tried reinstalling the USB drivers and everything else I can think of.

 

I have attached the Jumpman.PRO file which has the problem.  This was copied from an original floppy disk.  If I boot from the disk using a HAPPY drive, I get the error "This copied disk will not load".  If I turn off Happy mode so that it loads like a normal unenhanced disk drive, the game loads normally.

 

So I assume that, when I load from the PRO version, the program is acting the same way: it senses that it is loading too fast and refuses to run.

 

Another thought:  I thought perhaps it was Windows 11 causing the problem.  But I have a laptop with Windows Vista loaded on it.  The APE on that system acts exactly the same: I can mess with the parameters all I want but nothing changes.  It always boots at the fastest speed.  It's crazy, I know, but it's driving me nuts and I can't figure out what else to do.

 

Thanks in advance for any additional help from you or from anyone else.

Jumpman.PRO

Edited January 22, 2022 by AGiambra

[+DjayBee]

Your file is not OK. Altirra does not load it either.

It expects a duplicate sector 703 which is not there.

 

If you have VAPI loaded to APE, try this one:

Jumpman (1983)(Epyx)(US)[f][a][!].atx

[AGiambra]

Your version loaded just fine on my system.  Now I am really confused.  I created my version using the PRO system which I thought could copy any disk.  When it copies the disk, it does not report any errors.  It does say that it found a bad sector but I thought the PRO system automatically handles this.

 

Oh well....computers....they drive you nuts.

 

Thanks for your help.

[+DjayBee]

16 minutes ago, AGiambra said:

I created my version using the PRO system which I thought could copy any disk.

This is a very strong claim.

 

But I agree that it should have copied the duplicate sector. IIRC APE comes with a PRO file of that exact release of Jumpman. You might look in your APE directory for it.

 

The main problems with PRO are:

 

It gives a hell lot of load and wear to your disk and drive, particularly if the disk contains lots of missing sectors. The drive then retries each and every sector several times.

 

It can only image disks with protections which can directly be "seen" with standard SIO read calls.

I.e. one duplicate sector, like in Jumpman, should be no problem with more than one read of each sector. But if there are multiple copies of the same sector scattered over the track and need specific timing, then PRO willl very likely fail to copy it.

[AGiambra]

I noticed something else.  When I loaded your copy of Jumpman, my system booted much more slowly, as if it automatically set itself to a slow boot rate.  I did not change any parameters; it just booted slowly.  When I load my own version, it goes back to loading fast again.

 

Weird.  I think I have exhausted all the possibilities on this one.  I know there are versions of Jumpman out there that will work; I was just being anal and insisting that my version work.  Well, in this case, it's Computer 1, Me zero.

 

Hah hah.

[AGiambra]

Concerning my remark that I thought the PRO system could copy any software, here is a direct quote from the Atari Peripheral Emulator Users Guide:

 

"I am confident that APE can emulate 100% of existing software".

 

 

 

 

[_The Doctor__]

Pro system has a few different emulation modes and uses a standard drive to make it's images, I also will note that sometimes a modified drive won't make a playable pro image, but if it's in unhappy mode it will... the opposite of what you would think, but if you use vapi it's the other way around... so you've got some trial and error as well as a few variables to deal with... Pro is one way in this as well, a bootable and working PRO image doesn't mean you can write a working disk back out from it to a real physical floppy

Edited January 22, 2022 by _The Doctor__

[AGiambra]

I put the drive in unhappy mode and tried it again.  Still no luck.  I'm done.  I've wasted too much time on this.  Thanks for your help.

Edited January 22, 2022 by AGiambra

[ijor]

On 1/21/2022 at 3:38 PM, AGiambra said:

Yesterday I tried this and APE booted at exactly the same speed as before.  Nothing I do changes the speed that APE loads at.  The only difference on my PC is that recently I bought a brand new SIO2PC unit.  My old one stopped working and when I bought the new one I noticed is has two ports.  I didn't even realize when I bought it that it was a new Dual Port model.

 

In first place, please note that you are in the wrong sub forum. This sub forum is for programming topics, and as I'm sure you realize, this is not. You might get more and better replies at the main Atari 8-bit forum.

 

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Anyway, is the new unit causing this problem?

 

I haven't used APE for a very long time, but no, it's unlikely that this is related to your new SIO2PC unit.

 

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Yes I go into USB settings and set RATE by pokey divisor.

 

This has nothing to do with your problem. Your problem, or more precisely, one of your problems, is the delay between sectors, not the serial bit rate.

 

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When I loaded your copy of Jumpman, my system booted much more slowly, as if it automatically set itself to a slow boot rate.  I did not change any parameters; it just booted slowly. 

 

This is because that is an ATX image handled by VAPI, and VAPI sets the slow mode automatically. PRO images are different.

 

Quote

I created my version using the PRO system which I thought could copy any disk. 

Concerning my remark that I thought the PRO system could copy any software, here is a direct quote from the Atari Peripheral Emulator Users Guide:

 

"I am confident that APE can emulate 100% of existing software".

 

I'm not very familiar with all details on how APE/PRO handles copy protected images. I trust Steven, and it is very possible that APE can emulate almost all the protections. Surely it can emulate relatively simple protections like in Jumpman. But emulating a protection is one thing, and creating an accurate image, automatically, is something very different.

 

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I put the drive in unhappy mode and tried it again.  Still no luck. 

 

If your PRO image is wrong (and apparently it is), then nothing at the APE configuration will help.

[+Larry]

For anyone interested, here is a link to the ProSystem users guide (for dos).  AFAIK, no manual exists for the Windows version. I gave up on the ProSystem after I ruined a couple of disks making Complex images.  (Simple images were not an issue as regards disk wear, but I found they mostly didn't work with the software I was copying.)

 

https://www.atarimax.com/ape/prosys.htm