Gaming on iMac G3?

[youxia]

I'm a hardcore PC user, have never had an Apple product and don't intend to get any new ones....but I guess G3 is retro enough (and CRT enough) to slip under my anti-Apple radar.

 

I can pick one up now for ~70E  and am wondering if it's a good idea. It's just the main monitor unit - G3 500Mhz, Ram 384 MB, OS 10.4 - without keyboard and mouse. Is it possible to play old games on it without spending any extra money (apart from KBM, which I understand any USB ones should do)? Ie, can I just downlaod something from the web, put it on an USB flash or CDROM and run without much fuss? How compatible is it natively with older Macs (I don't suppose it can handle soft from Apple II line)?

[Leonard Smith]

It's possible, but I would probably stay away if you've never really delved into the Mac ecosystem.

The G3 iMacs have perhaps the most brittle cases I've ever encountered.  Simply taking them apart results in broken tabs and unsightly cracks.  Those neat little translucent cases have not held up well over the years.

If you have a working optical drive, then you can probably track down some cd based games and try those.  You can definitely download games online and transfer them via USB or fire up whatever browser is on the Mac and just hit up sites like Macintosh Garden which works fine with older Macs and browsers.

I own an iMac and apart from being a historical curiosity, I really wouldn't recommend them in this day and age unless you're a hardcore fan.

[bluejay]

There definitely are some okay PPC era Mac games to play, although it really isn’t that stellar. Original Hearts of Iron was the best I found. 
 

However, these emulate PlayStation games really well. I don’t see a reason to use an old Mac for this, but I just like doing it. PlayStation emulation is the main use for my Powermac G4. 
 

Since it has USB, data transfers are a piece of cake. If you want to, you can use ethernet to connect the thing to the web. It doesn’t work all that well, but Macintosh Repository is compatible with old Mac browsers. You can download files directly from there. 
 

iMacs run PowerPC CPUs, so it only natively supports PowerPC software. 68k software support is done through emulation, but I found that the Apple supplied emulator doesn’t work all that well. You wouldn’t want to use this for 68k software. I’m sure there are Apple II emulators for PPC Mac, although I can’t name any off the top of my head. However, they definitely aren’t natively compatible. 
 

Bottom line, old Macs —particularly iMac G3s— are pretty much just for show and/or tinkering around with. There just aren’t a whole lot of stuff you can do with these that can’t be done with X86 machines (granted, good x86 machines cost a good bit more these days). Besides, 70 euros isn’t the bestest deal for a G3, especially if it’s lacking the keyboard and mouse (just USB stuff btw, anything works on it). I would look for a better deal unless you really want it. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by bluejay

[Tempest]

I have a nice iMac G3 that I don't really use because I've never found any Mac only games (for the G3) that caught my interest.  The PPC Macs seemed to mostly get ports of DOS games so it seemed redundant to keep it out.  However I hear the Marathon Series is supposed to be good.

 

If you want to search for Mac software that might catch your eye go over to Macintosh Garden and search for software from the late 90s/early 2000s which is what will run on this.

[youxia]

Thanks for the replies. It's a little bit disappointing that it can't run 68k stuff natively...I was hoping it could do that somehow, since I know Macs' late 90s library is rather lacking (afetre all that's what we used to gloat about as PC fans). But, I'm sure there are some interesting titles nonetheless (yes, early Bungie ftw) and I just want to see and take pics of its CRT for my collection.

 

70 Euro is actually quite a good deal here in Europe, especially in my neck of the woods, because back in the day nobody could afford them so they're quite rare now.

[bluejay]

If you're looking to run 68k software, the LC or early Performa line of Macs are cheap and effective... given that they work. Just checked on ebay uk, and prices aren't bad there either; within your 70 euro budget, although depending heavily on the condition. Anyhoo, it's best not to get tangled up in the mess that is old Macs unless you have reason to. It's an expensive way to rip your head off.

[Iamgroot]

If you get a G3 PPC, get a tower that has a 3.5 inch drive.  Using Bernie2TheRescue emulator, it writes Prodos formatted disks perfectly for the Apple II line with a 3.5 inch drive.  Really good way to transfer files to/and/from an old Apple II.

 

A G3 is also way more useful using MacOS 9.2.2 rather than any of the 10.x series.  So, wipe your hard drive and install the older OS.  This will also make it more compatible and allow more 68k software to run.  There is also a SCSI to SD card hard drive still available for sale.

 

File sharing with a PC with Windows XP is a breeze through ethernet.  I don't have any PC with a newer OS, so don't know if it is still possible.  Transferring files through SD card or CD is also quite easy as MacOS 9.2.2 can read FAT16 or .iso volume structures but not NTFS.

 

I have mine decked out from 333 Mhz to 1 Ghz and 768 Mb of RAM and have a fire wire card and fire wire DVD-writer attached.

 

And lastly, in the Apple II line, get an Apple IIGS as the keyboard and mouse are interchangeable with the PPC as well as 3.5 inch drive capability built in, so no extra needed cards.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Iamgroot

[Leonard Smith]

1 hour ago, youxia said:

70 Euro is actually quite a good deal here in Europe, especially in my neck of the woods, because back in the day nobody could afford them so they're quite rare now.

Granted that's a good price, but they are large and bulky and my opinion is that the money could be put to better uses in your collection than picking up an ancient Mac that you'll likely rarely use.

Just my two cents.  

[Austin]

I have had a couple of G3 units. They are nice, but there just wasn't enough software there to justify having them. With an older OS the 68k stuff was the most unique and interesting part of it, yet also the most inconsistent in terms of actually running. It's not really worth the trouble IMO.

[youxia]

So, I gave up on this idea - for now. I still want one, but my CRT bench is just too crowded atm. I have just picked up a CTM 644 monitor and will probably get a C1084 soon, so this whole Mac thing will have to wait.

 

I know it's a bit pointless machine in general, and your arguments against it make sense, but in this hobby sensibility is not always the best yardstick I quite like such oddball machines. And it's probably my only chance of having even a slightly-retro Apple computer, because everything older than that is just ridiculously expensive here in Europe and/or, like bluejay says, a likely nightmare to maintain.

 

Might keep an eye out for Performas as well from now on (but they need special monitors & KBM? Or can I connect PC stuff?)

[Leonard Smith]

13 minutes ago, youxia said:

So, I gave up on this idea - for now. I still want one, but my CRT bench is just too crowded atm. I have just picked up a CTM 644 monitor and will probably get a C1084 soon, so this whole Mac thing will have to wait.

 

I know it's a bit pointless machine in general, and your arguments against it make sense, but in this hobby sensibility is not always the best yardstick I quite like such oddball machines. And it's probably my only chance of having even a slightly-retro Apple computer, because everything older than that is just ridiculously expensive here in Europe and/or, like bluejay says, a likely nightmare to maintain.

 

Might keep an eye out for Performas as well from now on (but they need special monitors & KBM? Or can I connect PC stuff?)

Yeah.  I think in hindsight you've made the right decision.  While I do own a 1998 iMac, I can't remember the last time I even used it.  It's more of a hassle to use these days, and you'll end up needing to invest more money just to add basic things like storage and whatnot.

Regarding the Performas and beige Macs, they have a non-standard monitor connector, but you can buy a VGA adapter to use most standard monitors.  Keyboard and mouse are via a proprietary ADB connection standard. 
And even then, should you need to replace the hard drive and/or CD drive, you'll run into the fact that the older models use SCSI connectors which limits your pool of easily acquired spared parts.  

Plus, the older Macs from the late 80's to 90's are notorious for leaky caps.  The Mac Classic and II line are the worst offenders.  

[MrMaddog]

My mom still uses her iMac G3 along side her Mac Mini, which is more modern (Intel based though), for playing games that only run on Mac OS 9 and not OS X.  She also downloads PDFs of strat guide walkthroughs on her Mini and uses Adobe Reader on the G3 as a "second screen" while playing the OS X based stuff.

 

There were a significant amount of Classic OS 9 based games made in the late 90's and early 2000's even though it wasn't as much as PC games, and they can also run 68K games as well.

 

If you have a iMac G3, go for it!  You can find plenty of games and apps on Macintosh Garden to download.  And you can even use the Classilla browser to download directly on the G3...

 

[MHaensel]

On 1/25/2022 at 1:22 PM, youxia said:

I'm a hardcore PC user, have never had an Apple product and don't intend to get any new ones....but I guess G3 is retro enough (and CRT enough) to slip under my anti-Apple radar.

 

I can pick one up now for ~70E  and am wondering if it's a good idea.

If you don't already have mac-specific games or applications you want to use, I wouldn't do it. OS 9 is pretty and responsive, but also crashy. OS X on a G3? You'll need lots of patience.

If someone decides to do this anyway, check out text-to-speech. The Mac has some fun voices in either OS.

 

On 1/25/2022 at 6:26 PM, bluejay said:

iMacs run PowerPC CPUs, so it only natively supports PowerPC software. 68k software support is done through emulation, but I found that the Apple supplied emulator doesn’t work all that well. You wouldn’t want to use this for 68k software.

I've heard this a couple of places. What doesn't work well under emulation?

[bluejay]

26 minutes ago, MHaensel said:

I've heard this a couple of places. What doesn't work well under emulation?

I haven’t tried too much software, but nothing that I tried worked. It either ran way too fast or froze or had some weird graphical issues. Maybe it’s just some configuration issue? I’m not really sure. Perhaps it’s trying to emulate a later 68k mac. I gave up on trying to look into it further because I really saw no reason to use the emulator other than to experiment. 

[0078265317]

G3 iMacs are cool looking.  But they overheat easily causing the unit to fry and stop working.

[Clint Thompson]

There are a couple of games worth checking out imo.... still, not worthy enough to dedicate as a gaming machine but there are a few other things you could use it for:

 

Air Burst

 

 

Real Pool 3D

 

 

Bryce 5.5 if you're into tinkering with ancient rendering...

 

 

And you could load up SoundJam MP to rip some old school CDs to MP3s and have your own personal vintage G3 Jukebox

 

 

[Tempest]

That sort of sums it up.  There are games worth playing for sure, but they're not enough to keep it out as a dedicated gaming machine.  If you're a classic Mac person and have it out anyway then it's a fun little computer but it's not worth getting just for that.

[Flojomojo]

If I had one of the colorful all in one iMacs, I’d run old Ambrosia and Pangea software on it, there’s fun to be had, and you could load software from an external drive or the network easily enough. 

 

They’re big, heavy, and bulky though, not worth the space on my opinion, even as a retro curiosity. 
 

This is what I would play the most. Crank up your sound!

 

 

[Leonard Smith]

Be careful with Ambrosia games...the company has gone defunct and none of registration keys seem to work anymore (nor are they obtainable), so the later games are sometime unplayable.

 

Speaking as a one-time Mac gamer, I would recommend steering clear at this point in time.  No matter what you do, you're going to end up having to buy or spend money to get any real usefulness out of iMac.  No matter how cheap how cheap the initial outlay is.  
It's usable, but at some point limitations will be reached and will require additional money or resources.

[youxia]

Easy, guys, for me it was never meant to be a major gaming or productivity rig. As for space/bulkiness, well, I don't really think one more or less addition to my retro-den, which is literally littered with CRTs will make any difference

 

I simply want to check out what's available for this particular setup, and take a lot of photos of its CRT. Hence my initial questions whether this model is usable without needing any add-ons (definitely don't want to head down the Mac-expansion/fixing rabbit hole).

 

If I see one locally for that money I'll definitely pick it up - just didn't want to risk sending a CRT via courier, even though it's a reasonably cheap unit.

 

[Tempest]

20 hours ago, Leonard Smith said:

Be careful with Ambrosia games...the company has gone defunct and none of registration keys seem to work anymore (nor are they obtainable), so the later games are sometime unplayable.

Really?  I thought they had made all the keys available at one point.  Which games can't be played? 

 

20 hours ago, Leonard Smith said:

Speaking as a one-time Mac gamer, I would recommend steering clear at this point in time.  No matter what you do, you're going to end up having to buy or spend money to get any real usefulness out of iMac.  No matter how cheap how cheap the initial outlay is. 

I don't what you can really add to one of those all in one iMac G3s.   They were meant to have everything needed already installed.

[Leonard Smith]

1 hour ago, Tempest said:

Really?  I thought they had made all the keys available at one point.  Which games can't be played? 

 

I don't what you can really add to one of those all in one iMac G3s.   They were meant to have everything needed already installed.

Some of the later games like Escape Velocity Override and Cythera.  I believe the keys may be available, but they don't quite work correctly.

Regarding add-ons, yes they generally have everything preinstalled.  They don't come with nearly enough RAM by default, so that's one upgrade area but I meant more along the lines of having to replace some caps and components.  Plus, the temptation to start a Mac game or software collection may also be a possibility, depending on one's level of discipline.

They are big and bulky, so selling or disposing is also a challenge to consider.

[Iamgroot]

I agree with some things mentioned here.  The iMac G3, being an all-in-one unit, can't be upgraded very easily with RAM and CPU, if at all.  And is not worth the investment to play serious games on.  Plus the reason I recommend the tower, instead of the desktop model.  It can be stored on the floor, out of the way, and it can be upgraded if one still can find the RAM.

 

But an even better recommendation is to get the G4 tower.  It is fully compatible with anything the G3 can run, it already comes with a little more RAM and faster CPU.  And if one wants to RUN either classic OS9 software or OSX, they can do so.  The hard drive tends to me too small on these models, but can get around that by installing OS9 on the internal drive and installing OSX on the external USB drive.  One can then boot from either drive depending on the OS they want to use, and have the ability to add extra space with external drives.

[+OLD CS1]

On 2/1/2022 at 12:01 PM, Iamgroot said:

But an even better recommendation is to get the G4 tower.

Shameless, and I mean unapologetic and absolutely shameless, self-plug.

 

 

[bluejay]

Isn’t $100 a bit high for a bare G4 tower? I see them for $15-50 all the time, depending on condition and whether it comes with keyboards or not.