+Philsan Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, rdefabri said: Let me say that some of the work here is amazing - I'm blown away by the quality of content from some incredible programmers. It's been YEARS since I did any BASIC programming (although I was never a strong coder to begin with), and this stuff blows away most of the stuff I'd key in from ANALOG or Antic Magazines. What was the genesis of this contest? I understand pushing the limits, but doing 10 lines in Atari BASIC? That seems masochistic LOL! Seriously, I'm going to start deconstructing some of this code to learn. I'm certain I can't do what you guys can, but even to create something (it's been 30 years since I've done anything, and almost 20 years since I got my degree in Software Engineering) would be an accomplishment. Are there any good tutorials I can reference to help? Here you'll find explained code of many awesome games written in Atari Basic, Turbo-Basic XL and the new FastBasic: https://www.vitoco.cl/atari/10liner/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichenneke Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Philsan said: Here you'll find explained code of many awesome games written in Atari Basic, Turbo-Basic XL and the new FastBasic: https://www.vitoco.cl/atari/10liner/ Yes, victor's documentation is terrific. A work of art and labor of love in and of itself! Also if you go to the actual 10 liner contest website you can see a trove of documentation for current and past entries including many code walkthroughs and "flattened versions" of the code (with one operation per line to make it easier to follow). The educational value of this contest is real, even if it also encourages (in fact I'd say it REQUIRES) some truly terrible coding habits! https://gkanold.wixsite.com/homeputerium 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdefabri Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Philsan said: Here you'll find explained code of many awesome games written in Atari Basic, Turbo-Basic XL and the new FastBasic: https://www.vitoco.cl/atari/10liner/ Thanks! He sent this to me on Facebook as well, so I'll take a look. My initial view was it was still above my capability level, but I'm a quick read (at least, I was a quick read...I'm an old dog now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, rdefabri said: Thanks! He sent this to me on Facebook as well, so I'll take a look. My initial view was it was still above my capability level, but I'm a quick read (at least, I was a quick read...I'm an old dog now). I sent you this link on Facebook yesterday ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco Posted March 23, 2022 Author Share Posted March 23, 2022 4 hours ago, rdefabri said: I'm going to start deconstructing some of this code to learn. I'm certain I can't do what you guys can, but even to create something (it's been 30 years since I've done anything, and almost 20 years since I got my degree in Software Engineering) would be an accomplishment. 49 minutes ago, erichenneke said: Also if you go to the actual 10 liner contest website you can see a trove of documentation for current and past entries including many code walkthroughs and "flattened versions" of the code (with one operation per line to make it easier to follow). The educational value of this contest is real, even if it also encourages (in fact I'd say it REQUIRES) some truly terrible coding habits! The child site of the contest website contains the BASIC source code for the entries of the latest years, for many platforms and with different flavors of BASIC. Eric is right: too many coding tricks are required to use less space for more instructions (or reuse them). Most of the time, a single expression might contain lots of game status to control the flow. Without comments in flattened listings, it could be impossible to say what is going on. In the source listings at my site, I tried to explain every trick I used in my games, but I've found myself trying to understand what I did when reviewing some code a couple of years later. I'm still working in my last game using Atari BASIC for the PUR-80 category, and I hope to finish it. If I succeed with it (there are 7 bytes I need to "compress"), it will be the worst code I had written... No structured programming, abuse of GOTOs, lots of conditional expressions but no IF statements, and more!!! It's the bitmapped version of my latest published proto. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichenneke Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, vitoco said: Eric is right: too many coding tricks are required to use less space for more instructions (or reuse them). Most of the time, a single expression might contain lots of game status to control the flow. Without comments in flattened listings, it could be impossible to say what is going on ...it will be the worst code I had written... No structured programming, abuse of GOTOs, lots of conditional expressions but no IF statements, and more!!! You mean something like THIS monstrosity? -Eric 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco Posted March 23, 2022 Author Share Posted March 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, erichenneke said: You mean something like THIS monstrosity? -Eric Yep... very similar!!! ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) The organizer surely is strict about the rules. I saw there was an entry for the TI-99/4A which got demoted from PUR-120 to WILD because the TI is a 16-bit computer. I realize any entry for Intellivision ECS BASIC would also get redirected to WILD for the same reason, despite it being one of the slowest and most limited dialects ever made. Edited March 23, 2022 by carlsson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMSDOS Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, carlsson said: The organizer surely is strict about the rules. I saw there was an entry for the TI-99/4A which got demoted from PUR-120 to WILD because the TI is a 16-bit computer. I realize any entry for Intellivision ECS BASIC would also get redirected to WILD for the same reason, despite it being one of the slowest and most limited dialects ever made. I wonder if a TI 99/2 would qualify it uses a 9995 processor? It does state in the intro the legal systems can only be 8-bit, so unfortunately the 99/4A misses out despite having all the traits of an 8-bit system. Suprised no-one has made an entry for a TI Graphics Calculator, which has an 8-bit processor with TI BASIC. Edited March 24, 2022 by AMSDOS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdefabri Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 15 hours ago, Philsan said: I sent you this link on Facebook yesterday ? Oh sorry my bad! I'm not a big Facebook-er, so haven't connected names here to there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdefabri Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, vitoco said: The child site of the contest website contains the BASIC source code for the entries of the latest years, for many platforms and with different flavors of BASIC. Eric is right: too many coding tricks are required to use less space for more instructions (or reuse them). Most of the time, a single expression might contain lots of game status to control the flow. Without comments in flattened listings, it could be impossible to say what is going on. In the source listings at my site, I tried to explain every trick I used in my games, but I've found myself trying to understand what I did when reviewing some code a couple of years later. I'm still working in my last game using Atari BASIC for the PUR-80 category, and I hope to finish it. If I succeed with it (there are 7 bytes I need to "compress"), it will be the worst code I had written... No structured programming, abuse of GOTOs, lots of conditional expressions but no IF statements, and more!!! It's the bitmapped version of my latest published proto. Understood, and I assumed a lot of tricks were used. The flattened code obviously made more sense to me. My goal would be to walk before I can run - I'm in Marketing, I haven't coded anything in 20+ years and even then, I wasn't much of a coder. If I could create any of these programs in 1000 lines, I'd be ecstatic, let alone 10. The fact that they are in BASIC (or Turbo Basic, which I would love to learn) is part of what excites me - I'm most comfortable in C/C++, but that's not a big development language for Atari 8-bits (at least from my memory, I know there was a C language that I played with back in the day), so BASIC is my fall back. It's a language that for me is easy to grasp and I'm confident I could create something that I'd be proud of. Edited March 24, 2022 by rdefabri 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 36 minutes ago, rdefabri said: The fact that they are in BASIC (or Turbo Basic, which I would love to learn) is part of what excites me - I'm most comfortable in C/C++, but that's not a big development language for Atari 8-bits (at least from my memory, I know there was a C language that I played with back in the day), so BASIC is my fall back. It's a language that for me is easy to grasp and I'm confident I could create something that I'd be proud of. A better fall back from C could be FastBasic. It is a faster and more powerful than TurboBasic XL. It does not use line numbers (hence no GOTO), but structured programming in free-form text is quite easy. It is a new BASIC language pseudocompiler that is being developed to program games for the XL/XE computers, but there is a new beta version to write games for the 5200 console. There are no functions yet, but procedures accept parameters, which are assigned to global variables, so you can return values on any variable. BTW, in FB you can code and test directly in the Atari using the IDE (builtin editor) or use your favourite OS to edit and crosscompile to obtain your XEX file. You can download the latest stable version 4.5.2. You can pick the ATR to be booted in your Atari computer or emulator, or use the crosscompilers for Windows, MacOS or linux. The distribution includes many examples. Note that there are two flavors: with and without floating point numbers (and FP functions). Wow, this was too much info for a single paragraph. Have fun! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I thought the 9995 in Tomy Tutor etc was just as much 16-bit, if not more, than the 9990. Obviously Sinclair QL also is out of the question, even though the 68008 has an 8-bit bus (just like a 8088) IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Hello Vitoco 9 hours ago, vitoco said: Wow, this was too much info for a single paragraph. Only slightly more than 10 lines. Sincerely Mathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMSDOS Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 15 hours ago, carlsson said: I thought the 9995 in Tomy Tutor etc was just as much 16-bit, if not more, than the 9990. I had a look yesterday on Old Computers and Wikipedia, though it didn't give me anything definite about them being 16Bit. Wikipedia did state that the TI-99/4 and TI-99/4A which used the 9990 were 16bit though, so even their computer from 1979 wouldn't quality. The only clue I saw in regard to the 9995 being 16bit had to do with programmes from that processor being compatable with the 9990, but not the other way around. But TI were in the business of making those processors, so perhaps their all 16bit. 15 hours ago, carlsson said: Obviously Sinclair QL also is out of the question, even though the 68008 has an 8-bit bus (just like a 8088) IIRC. That was the machine which Broke Sinclair because of hardware troubles with it? Guess an emulator would fix that or perhaps some machines still exist because a fix was found and there would be other languages (GWBASIC, BASICA), platforms (MS-DOS, PC-DOS, CP/M-86, DOS Plus, DR DOS), systems (TI-99/4A, Sinclair QL, some other obscure systems like the Sanyo MBC-55x, IBM PC Jnr, Amstrad PC20 as long as they had emulators and then there's PCs & Compatables or Non-Compatables as well as early Mac or Lisa I guess). I guess the only problem being would it be limited to 8088 and if other 68000 based Motorola systems has that 8-bit bus and even when I mentioned some of the Non-Compatable PC systems, I think one in particular I was thinking of has a 8086 processor which is 16bit bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 I just submitted my latest game for the PUR-80 category, Spiky World, which was prototyped as "Leave me alone!". When @Bunsen complete the upload of all my games to his sites, I'll publish the sources in my tenliners page. ++V 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichenneke Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) I just submitted my PUR-80 Atari Basic entry "MetroSync". Click to see full video... MetroSyncUserGuide.pdf Will share the executable code once everything is posted on Bunsen's site. -Eric Edited March 26, 2022 by erichenneke 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco Posted March 26, 2022 Author Share Posted March 26, 2022 5 hours ago, erichenneke said: Will share the executable code once everything is posted on Bunsen's site. Isn't that the source/executable code? I could just type in to play it, easier than from an 80's magazine, and line 10 can be omitted!!! ? On 3/23/2022 at 7:10 PM, erichenneke said: You mean something like THIS monstrosity? Just compare to this: I didn't have room for a POKE 77,0 ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichenneke Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 2 hours ago, vitoco said: Isn't that the source/executable code? I could just type in to play it, easier than from an 80's magazine, and line 10 can be omitted!!! ? Yep, knock yourself out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxC0FFEE Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Well, that was close! Just in under the deadline! I just submitted my entry, Sigils (gif of gameplay below, you'll have to imagine the sound) Here's the project repo: https://github.com/kimslawson/sigils/ 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 5 hours ago, OxC0FFEE said: Well, that was close! Just in under the deadline! I just submitted my entry, Sigils (gif of gameplay below, you'll have to imagine the sound) Here's the project repo: https://github.com/kimslawson/sigils/ Very nice! I would reduce the delay after a win. All colors cycle, OK then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 The game deserves sound, therefore I made a video: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowman Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 Hi folks, my hardware is ready for the 10 liner jury. I'm waiting for the judges. 81 programs are waiting for us. It's gonna be another long day. I think it's going to be a lot of fun again today. Lots of nice Tenliners. Great. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoco Posted March 27, 2022 Author Share Posted March 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Yellowman said: my hardware is ready for the 10 liner jury. Impressive!!! Congrats... I hope you will share some photos of the judges during the marathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxC0FFEE Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 1 hour ago, vitoco said: I hope you will share some photos of the judges during the marathon. Yes please! Behind the scenes photos or livestreams would be great (I think @ZeroPage Homebrew did a stream last year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.