Project: Arrival (would like to see this ported to the Atari VCS)

[Tidus79001]

A few days ago I came across Project: Arrival that is in development for high end Android and iOS device and I have to say it looks amazing. It would be perfect for the Atari VCS as a AAA type title. I know isn't likely to go anywhere, but I have sent a message over of Facebook to the dev. Maybe if enough Atari VCS fans sends messages, emails feedback on Discord the dev might consider porting it over to the Atari VCS.

https://www.gamearrival.com

https://www.facebook.com/ProjectArrival

https://discord.gg/PC4QptPqr5

Edited February 13, 2022 by Tidus79001

[THX-1138]

39 minutes ago, Tidus79001 said:

A few days ago I came across Project: Arrival that is in development for high end Android and iOS device and I have to say it looks amazing. It would be perfect for the Atari VCS as a AAA type title. I know isn't likely to go anywhere, but I have sent a message over of Facebook to the dev. Maybe if enough Atari VCS fans sends messages, emails feedback on Discord the dev might consider porting it over to the Atari VCS.

https://www.gamearrival.com

https://www.facebook.com/ProjectArrival

https://discord.gg/PC4QptPqr5

Would have more of a chance if the game was being developed for Linux anyway, then adapting it for the VCS would be quite easy for the developer.
 

[Tidus79001]

29 minutes ago, THX-1138 said:

Would have more of a chance if the game was being developed for Linux anyway, then adapting it for the VCS would be quite easy for the developer.
 

Android is based on Linux, so I bet it would be less work to porting it to the Atari VCS than to a PC running Windows or, game console such as the PlayStation 5, XBOX Series X/S or Nintendo Switch.

[leech]

12 hours ago, Tidus79001 said:

Android is based on Linux, so I bet it would be less work to porting it to the Atari VCS than to a PC running Windows or, game console such as the PlayStation 5, XBOX Series X/S or Nintendo Switch.

Well, Android uses a Linux Kernel, with completely different userland / libraries than a typical Linux distributions, including the AtariOS.  Which is why you see tons of mobile games on android, but never see a Linux port of any of them...

[Djmicklovin]

I message indie developers all the time on Facebook about porting their games to the VCS. I’m trying to help any way I can. More Atari VCS fans need to reach out. We need these developers to get onboard and express interest in developing for the VCS.

[THX-1138]

3 hours ago, Djmicklovin said:

I message indie developers all the time on Facebook about porting their games to the VCS. I’m trying to help any way I can. More Atari VCS fans need to reach out. We need these developers to get onboard and express interest in developing for the VCS.

We need to really target developers who are already making games that run on Linux, there are lots of them these days.  That would be far more effective than expecting a developer to port something developed for Windows or a mobile OS to a wholly different platform, especially a very niche one like Atari OS.  Developers will probably be more inclined to test their games for the VCS if they can actually get access to the hardware, at the moment it's only on limited release mostly in one country - which, also limits the potential user base.

Also, as I've said before, it seems so obvious to me that most if not all those games advertised on the main page here on AtariAge could and should be available for the VCS in some form.

Edited February 14, 2022 by THX-1138

[+Gemintronic]

Linux native games are still a niche.  So, we'd be seeking developers developing for a niche and asking them to port to an even smaller niche.

 

If someone were to evangelize for the VCS you'd have a bigger audience with game engines that happen to support Linux as a target.  Things like Unreal, Unity and Game Maker.

 

You'd probably get more traction with the nascent homebrewing crowd in Game Maker, Godot and GameGuru but you wouldn't get the shiny AAA glitter.

[zzip]

20 hours ago, Tidus79001 said:

Android is based on Linux, so I bet it would be less work to porting it to the Atari VCS than to a PC running Windows or, game console such as the PlayStation 5, XBOX Series X/S or Nintendo Switch.

Not necessarily,  Android development uses an entirely different set of tools/apks than vanilla linux.    It depends on the what libraries your game depends on.

[leech]

   We should have little issue with getting some great games like Dead Cells, Vargus, Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate EE (1 &2) etc.  

[Tidus79001]

10 hours ago, leech said:

Well, Android uses a Linux Kernel, with completely different userland / libraries than a typical Linux distributions, including the AtariOS.  Which is why you see tons of mobile games on android, but never see a Linux port of any of them...

 

2 hours ago, zzip said:

Not necessarily,  Android development uses an entirely different set of tools/apks than vanilla linux.    It depends on the what libraries your game depends on.

 

2 hours ago, THX-1138 said:

We need to really target developers who are already making games that run on Linux, there are lots of them these days.  That would be far more effective than expecting a developer to port something developed for Windows or a mobile OS to a wholly different platform, especially a very niche one like Atari OS.  Developers will probably be more inclined to test their games for the VCS if they can actually get access to the hardware, at the moment it's only on limited release mostly in one country - which, also limits the potential user base.

Also, as I've said before, it seems so obvious to me that most if not all those games advertised on the main page here on AtariAge could and should be available for the VCS in some form.

 

The dev already is considering porting it the game to PC's (see the attached screenshot I took from the Discord channel for Project: Arrival()  It would be easier to to to Linux than to Windows as Android has more in common with Linux than it does with Windows.  I would rather see an Atari VCS port than having to run this in PC mode game via the Window 11 Android apps system, Bluestacks or Chrome OS .

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Tidus79001

[zzip]

2 minutes ago, Tidus79001 said:

It would be easier to to to Linux than to Windows as Android has more in common with Linux than it does with Windows.

Again, not necessarily.    You don't write games against the linux kernel,  you would write them against some library such as OpenGL, SDL, DirectX, Vulkan,  Android SDK,  or some all encompassing game engine such as Unity.    Some of these are cross platform and porting is relatively easy,  however if it is written using purely the Android SDK, then the effort to port to Linux would not be any easier than porting it to Windows.

 

[THX-1138]

25 minutes ago, Tidus79001 said:

 

 

 

The dev already is considering porting it the game to PC's (see the attached screenshot I took from the Discord channel for Project: Arrival()  It would be easier to to to Linux than to Windows as Android has more in common with Linux than it does with Windows.  I would rather see an Atari VCS port than having to run this in PC mode game via the Window 11 Android apps system, Bluestacks or Chrome OS .

 

 

There is a big difference between Android and a regular Linux distro (incl. Atari OS).  Android uses a Linux kernel but that's about as far as comparisons go.

[Tidus79001]

26 minutes ago, THX-1138 said:

There is a big difference between Android and a regular Linux distro (incl. Atari OS).  Android uses a Linux kernel but that's about as far as comparisons go.

I am not saying there aren't differences between Android and Linx.  I am saying in my reply that the dev is already considering porting to P'sC and that Android has more in common with Linux than it does with Windows so a port to a Linux OS would lilkey be less work that a port to Windows OS or other game system such as the PlayStation 5, XBOX Series X/S or Nintendo Switch.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Tidus79001

[zzip]

9 minutes ago, Tidus79001 said:

I am not saying there aren't differences between Android and Linx.  I am saying in my reply that the dev is already considering porting to P'sC and that Android has more in common with Linux than it does with Windows so a port to a Linux OS would lilkey be less work that a port to Windows OS or other game system such as the PlayStation 5, XBOX Series X/S or Nintendo Switch.

PS4/5 use a BSD kernel as does Mac, and BSD is like a cousin of Linux,   however that doesn't make ports between PS4, Mac, Ubuntu or Android are necessarily straightforward.

 

These days, so much code is written against high-level APIs and very little, if any, is interacting with the kernel directly, the APIs act as the middlemen.

 

Android has an entirely different user environment from desktop Linux, with its own Official SDK that is completely separate from the various competing SDKs that encompass desktop Linux.  Android also prefers apps to be written in Java while Linux prefers C/C++, but you aren't locked into a particular language on either, although it may be a factor in the difficulty of porting.

 

At any rate, the environments are different enough that I can see cases were it might actually be easier to port from Android to Windows, especially if that's what the developer is proficient in.

 

But the other factor is if the game is written with some cross-platform tools, like Unity, then porting between Android, Windows and Linux would be much easier.   It's not clear what this particular game uses.

[Tidus79001]

I wasn't intending to have this topic delve into a deep technical analysis porting games.  I just think a game like this could do well on a console such as the Atari VCS since that platfrom system looking for indie games and content not found elsewhere.  The hardware would Atari VCS should offer sufficient processing power to run a game well that was originally made for high end ARM mobile devices.

 

Just my thoughts:

• This game for PlayStation 5, XBOX Series X/S would not fit well since the games on those systems tend to be much more complex and this game would not meet the typical expectation for games on those platforms.
• Amico is low to mid range ARM hardware at best and the game is intended to be ran on high end Android and iOS devices so that sort of rules that platform out.  Also, Intellivision is not interested having games on the Amico with this level of depth as it doesn't fir the format for the type of game they want to cultivate as the Amico experience.  Not to mention the Amico doesn't seem likely that it will even make it to market at this point.
• Maybe this would be OK for the Switch, but this doesn't seem like the typical type of game for the Nintendo audience and would probably require a lot of work to port it over to that platfrorm/

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Tidus79001

[leech]

25 minutes ago, zzip said:

PS4/5 use a BSD kernel as does Mac, and BSD is like a cousin of Linux,   however that doesn't make ports between PS4, Mac, Ubuntu or Android are necessarily straightforward.

 

These days, so much code is written against high-level APIs and very little, if any, is interacting with the kernel directly, the APIs act as the middlemen.

 

Android has an entirely different user environment from desktop Linux, with its own Official SDK that is completely separate from the various competing SDKs that encompass desktop Linux.  Android also prefers apps to be written in Java while Linux prefers C/C++, but you aren't locked into a particular language on either, although it may be a factor in the difficulty of porting.

 

At any rate, the environments are different enough that I can see cases were it might actually be easier to port from Android to Windows, especially if that's what the developer is proficient in.

 

But the other factor is if the game is written with some cross-platform tools, like Unity, then porting between Android, Windows and Linux would be much easier.   It's not clear what this particular game uses.

Very much all of what zzip said.  If porting games from Android to Linux was easy, it'd make so much more sense that a ton of games from Android would already be available on Linux.  The fact that they are not, should be pretty telling. 

 

Then again, iOS/iPadOS also doesn't always translate well to macOS ports either (even now that you can run iOS apps on macOS, not all of them are allowed or guaranteed to work, and they use similar kernels as well, just completely different APIs.) 

 

The easiest ports to the VCS will be the ones that already are supported on Desktop Linux.  Open up Steam and if you see the Steam Logo on things, you'll be able to see all the native games that are written in Unity, Unreal Engine, etc that work native.  I think something like Dead Cells is a perfect fit.  Or Hollow Knight, etc.  Lots of cool platforming indie games would fit very well on the VCS.  So I think what we (as a community of fans) should do, is come up with some sort of form letter that we can maybe get signatures or something that we can send to developers to ask for a port, explain all what would be involved in such a port, and get someone to approach them.  As users if we flood some small developers with requests, it may have the opposite reaction where they just get irritated and block us.

[Tidus79001]

OI, well, I am done with the technical discussion.  I wanted to talk about the merits of a game such a Project: Arrival as something the type of game that would be great to have in the Atari VCS library.  I guess that part of discussion is totally derailed now.

[zzip]

36 minutes ago, leech said:

The easiest ports to the VCS will be the ones that already are supported on Desktop Linux.  Open up Steam and if you see the Steam Logo on things, you'll be able to see all the native games that are written in Unity, Unreal Engine, etc that work native.  I think something like Dead Cells is a perfect fit.  Or Hollow Knight, etc.  Lots of cool platforming indie games would fit very well on the VCS.  So I think what we (as a community of fans) should do, is come up with some sort of form letter that we can maybe get signatures or something that we can send to developers to ask for a port, explain all what would be involved in such a port, and get someone to approach them.  As users if we flood some small developers with requests, it may have the opposite reaction where they just get irritated and block us.

Yup,  there's over 1100 Linux games on GoG too,

plus all the free games listed at these sites (I wonder if Atari would ever consider adding free games?)

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/free-games/

https://happypenguin.altervista.org/

[Tidus79001]

Just now, zzip said:

Yup,  there's over 1100 Linux games on GoG too,

plus all the free games listed at these sites (I wonder if Atari would ever consider adding free games?)

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/free-games/

https://happypenguin.altervista.org/

That would be a good idea. Free games and make up for it in advertising.  No other console is doing that.  I would support that.  There a tons of free games that would be great to have on a home console like the Atari VCS.

[leech]

11 minutes ago, zzip said:

Yup,  there's over 1100 Linux games on GoG too,

plus all the free games listed at these sites (I wonder if Atari would ever consider adding free games?)

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/free-games/

https://happypenguin.altervista.org/

A large chunk of the GOG games for Linux are simply dosbox wrappers.  Which we already have on the VCS, so porting would be little more than copying over the config, and create an image for the AtariOS.  Almost free money!

[stirrell]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

Yup,  there's over 1100 Linux games on GoG too,

plus all the free games listed at these sites (I wonder if Atari would ever consider adding free games?)

They do have Unsung Warriors: Prologue... I guess that it might be a little different because it is more of a demo.

[leech]

3 hours ago, Tidus79001 said:

OI, well, I am done with the technical discussion.  I wanted to talk about the merits of a game such a Project: Arrival as something the type of game that would be great to have in the Atari VCS library.  I guess that part of discussion is totally derailed now.

No, our point was that Project: Arrival is being developed for iOS and Android and that Android and Linux (hence AtariOS) are completely different development platforms, and that it wouldn't be a quick and easy port, so less likely for the developers to do it. 

 

Not only that, as there is only plans so far to do iOS and Android versions of the game, that means touch screen input is where it'll be optimized, and seeing as how the VCS doesn't have any touch screen input it'd take even more development time to have a controllable port.

 

All I could find on the actual game was a teaser trailer.  So I have no idea why 'that type of game' would be great for the VCS.  Not saying it wouldn't be, if they felt like converting the iOS / Android controls to be more gamepad / joystick friendly.  Ping the Devs and see what they think?  Us bandying back and forth about the difficulties of porting it to Linux proper instead of Linux / Android is just that, us trying to correct the fallacy that just because something is being written for Android does not make it suitable for Desktop Linux or the Atari VCS.  Look more at games that are Verified or Playable on the Steam Deck and maybe (if AtariOS ever implements something like Proton) then we can get those games onto the Atari VCS.

 

2 hours ago, stirrell said:

They do have Unsung Warriors: Prologue... I guess that it might be a little different because it is more of a demo.

True (it's awesome, so I backed it, hoping it eventually releases).  They have some free apps and such as well, so it isn't like the system isn't set up for the occasional freebies. 

[Tidus79001]

3 hours ago, leech said:

No, our point was that Project: Arrival is being developed for iOS and Android and that Android and Linux (hence AtariOS) are completely different development platforms, and that it wouldn't be a quick and easy port, so less likely for the developers to do it. 

 

Not only that, as there is only plans so far to do iOS and Android versions of the game, that means touch screen input is where it'll be optimized, and seeing as how the VCS doesn't have any touch screen input it'd take even more development time to have a controllable port.

 

All I could find on the actual game was a teaser trailer.  So I have no idea why 'that type of game' would be great for the VCS.  Not saying it wouldn't be, if they felt like converting the iOS / Android controls to be more gamepad / joystick friendly.  Ping the Devs and see what they think?  Us bandying back and forth about the difficulties of porting it to Linux proper instead of Linux / Android is just that, us trying to correct the fallacy that just because something is being written for Android does not make it suitable for Desktop Linux or the Atari VCS.  Look more at games that are Verified or Playable on the Steam Deck and maybe (if AtariOS ever implements something like Proton) then we can get those games onto the Atari VCS.

 

True (it's awesome, so I backed it, hoping it eventually releases).  They have some free apps and such as well, so it isn't like the system isn't set up for the occasional freebies. 

I have seen gameplay footage over on the Discord channel for the game.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Tidus79001

[zzip]

14 hours ago, leech said:

Look more at games that are Verified or Playable on the Steam Deck and maybe (if AtariOS ever implements something like Proton) then we can get those games onto the Atari VCS.

Is proton available outside of the Steam client?

 

Even still, there is an extensive list of apps/games compatible with Wine without proton.   If Atari brought Dosbox to VCS they should be able to bring Wine if they have any Windows games to release.

[leech]

10 hours ago, zzip said:

Is proton available outside of the Steam client?

 

Even still, there is an extensive list of apps/games compatible with Wine without proton.   If Atari brought Dosbox to VCS they should be able to bring Wine if they have any Windows games to release.

Sure is!  https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/  But you are correct of course, just plain ol' wine supports many things!