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Can I connect a Windows 95 computer to the internet?


RetroB1977

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11 hours ago, RetroB1977 said:

Stupid me. The ethernet connection isn't working right! :) I wonder how I make the Linux machine connect. I'll wait until I have Win 98 so I can just use ethernet on my router.

First thing I'd do is use ipconfig to see if it's getting an IP address from your network.  If it isn't I'd check Windows Device Manager to see if the ethernet adapter has a proper driver working.

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If you want to connect Windows 95 to the internet, forget any major browser. You will only be able to browse old sites that are somehow still up and are still running on sufficiently old web servers.

 

The problem is the modern internet security requirements. Almost everything is https only now, with a minimum of TLS 1.2. No major browser supports TLS 1.2 on Windows 95. There may be newer third-party browsers that support TLS 1.2 on Windows 95, and that is probably your only hope anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, batari said:

If you want to connect Windows 95 to the internet, forget any major browser. You will only be able to browse old sites that are somehow still up and are still running on sufficiently old web servers.

 

The problem is the modern internet security requirements. Almost everything is https only now, with a minimum of TLS 1.2. No major browser supports TLS 1.2 on Windows 95. There may be newer third-party browsers that support TLS 1.2 on Windows 95, and that is probably your only hope anymore.

 

 

Overly complicated workaround probably not appropriate for the original poster:

 

 

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OK.  I have it set up in virtualbox.

 

First, right click on Network Neighborhood,  and choose Properties.

image.thumb.png.65b845cd65ea3ba05ecdc444d1d55fb3.png

 

 

This will open the network configuration window.  Ideally, it should look something like this:

image.thumb.png.f26ead4e02a73247905ccf5aa4f1d10a.png

 

If it does not look like that, use the Add button, and install protocols and clients as needed, and or-- remove protocols and clients as needed.  The setup program wants to install NETBEUI and IPX/SPX protocols by default, and not TCP/IP. Modern windows does not use either of those.

 

You will want it to be filled out like this:

image.thumb.png.ed5ebbedb764e506d633a32d2bc8a11b.pngimage.thumb.png.eec2fdc22678acfae452709d93e7dee1.png

 

By default, you MUST specify the DNS servers. It does not have an option to get that from the DHCP server automatically.  I have mine set to the local network DNS redirector for my network, and then fallback to public DNS at 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8

Ideally, you would point it at your ethernet router's IP address for a home network. It will want a hostname (which I did not fill out when I took the screen cap), set it to "localhost"

 

After setting these, it will tell you to reboot your computer.

 

image.thumb.png.c016ff9c94d3df5373e99eab78ae20f9.png

 

In theory, we should be on the internet after a reboot.  We still need to do some stuff with the internet setup wizard first though.

As seen below, we are "Technically on the internet", as we can ping to google.com without issue.

image.thumb.png.480173caae74ab1f5bb2c80c730b5c00.png

 

Now, we need to get the build in (older than the 7 hills of Rome) version of Internet Explorer all happy with our network setup.  Start Internet Explorer, and the Network Setup Wizard appears.

image.thumb.png.b010cc122a4307a26e712a2cda5852d3.png

 

For the most part, this is just clicking "Next, next, next" over and over, but when it gets to this screen, choose "I Connect to the internet using a LAN"

image.thumb.png.d978873e51e4ccd71e94dc4340544210.png

 

 

This tells IE not to do any fancy crap with the connection, just grab the TCP stack, and go at it.

Unless you really REALLY REALLY want to use the most insecure email system ever, please choose "no" on setting up internet mail.

image.thumb.png.c57d6d5ce3271e0d9fee3d9cb68a1d0a.png

 

Tell it to use DHCP to get the internet address (We *ALREADY ARE*, but microsoft just wants to be sure. For some reason.)

image.thumb.png.6db54fc4670edc42d6ea7a1bcdccfac6.png

 

AAND-- since SMB1.0 **WAS NEVER INTENDED TO WORK OVER THE INTERNET**, Microsoft kindly reminds you that this is a very dumb idea. This is why the win95 machine should be heavily firewalled.

Since we kinda sorta, actually DO IN FACT WANT TO USE SMB OVER TCP/IP, we should tell it "NO".

image.thumb.png.d85273540655126c13c86c0a800d1944.png

 

The setup wizard then verifies your DNS providers, and order...

image.thumb.png.a952ef732241a257423fcfdb95aab2a6.png

 

and then asks you about the default gateway.  REALLY NOW, it *SHOULD* be getting this from the DHCP server, as THAT IS ITS DAMN JOB, but whatever microsoft. Whatever.  Point this at your ethernet router's IP address.

image.thumb.png.1c348d05212ba54aea8abac83b27129c.png

 

After this, it is FINALLY finished playing 20-questions with you, and we can "Go on the internet" (shudder)

image.thumb.png.ac2902b6ece2fd57a7cb3b893d4be8fa.png

 

But what's this? Even Google.com wont load right!?  Well, maybe that's because web standards have kinda moved forward A WHOLE LOT since the 90s.  Maybe we should install something a little newer than the default copy of Internet Explorer...

image.thumb.png.e66a61480504f047c2f162dac177c10e.pngimage.thumb.png.1c0eee372abed5a96424d1ace0ba2d6a.png

 

 let's head over to Oldversion.com 
We can pull something "A little newer" from there.  We want Internet Explorer, version 5.5, service pack 1.  This is not optional- it updates some important features inside windows itself when it installs. This is the newest version that can run on win95A.

For reasons that should be patently obvious, these downloads are no longer on Microsoft's servers. They really do not want you driving on these old bits of kit.  That's why we have to get it from oldversion.com, or someplace similar. You should also grab an older version of firefox, or chrome.

 

(I keep getting hassled by work, so this will have to be 2 part.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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PART II

---

 

With IE 5.5 SP1 installed, we can kinda sorta see google.com now! YAY!

image.thumb.png.0ae3f03e8106e111d9e895e946c04242.png

 

 

However, in my forays into getting a newer browser installed, I have hit several walls with win95. Basically, everyone dropped it like a stone when 98 hit the scene.

 

 

In a few hours, I will demonstrate file shares with win95 all the same. Give a bit.

Edited by wierd_w
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Now that I am home, I can confirm that my consumer grade NAS box simply just works. (It comes pre-configured to talk with old SMB1.0 hosts.)

image.thumb.png.475db857b79d94bf6dd018dd0cb49996.png

 

But what about if we want to mount it as a drive letter, and then reconnect at logon? Well--- Right click on the shared folder, and choose "Map Network Drive"

image.thumb.png.d302e791ad3f4865e0b8a7346626c65a.png

 

A little dialog box asking for a drive letter, with a "Reconnect at logon" checkbox on it appears...

image.thumb.png.64b99b3f43cc59da6b9dee8220c916ea.png

 

Click the checkbox, set a drive letter, and then click OK.  You will then have a new drive letter in explorer, that is associated with that share.

image.thumb.png.fae2298f7e9252e702137af9d11c7b54.png

 

 

This is why I suggest having a consumer NAS box. It makes this MUUUUUCH easier.  Otherwise, you have to jump through the hoops I linked to earlier, on your modern windows box, to set up a suitably unrestricted fileshare using the old protocols.

 

But suppose you want to go the other way, and share the win95 system's drive, so that the modern machine can see it-- Well, that's doable too!

 

First, right click on the drive or folder that you wish to share, and choose "Sharing"

image.thumb.png.db38f18360a28bf28cce8c2aecd68f3f.png

 

A new window pops up, asking how we want to control access. It looks like this when it first opens.

image.thumb.png.bf05a6b0ad24895424e87086f95dc625.png

 

We want to share it-- So, click the Shared As radio button, then populate the info for how we want it to appear on the network. Say, something like this:

image.thumb.png.9046a7703f928b3eaff055563d10d19b.png

 

We are giving full access, so that our main machine can write all over it remotely-- Click OK.

 

As soon as you do, the drive or folder you set up sharing on, will have a little blue sleeved hand underneath it, like this:

image.thumb.png.41907a8212eedd035f3e0b8805744bab.png

 

and our host OS of choice should be able to see it also-- like this:

image.thumb.png.e29adb33ac3d63ef322a8545c1b6ee02.pngimage.thumb.png.28908661304e30106b69fff370f966d0.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by wierd_w
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On 2/21/2022 at 8:09 PM, DragonGrafx-16 said:

I used to have my DOS PC hooked up to my LAN using Windows 3.11 so that I could send files from my modern PC to it but then something broke the connection and I couldn't figure out how to get it working again. 

If you were using SMB filesharing, it's likely because of security updates on your modern PC. Microsoft pushed out updates that disable SMB v1 connections, even if you have the protocol explicitly enabled. If you disable and then re-enable the protocol, you get connectivity back, but only for a few days.

 

I have an old NAS appliance I lost connectivity to over here, until I upgraded the samba on it and forced it to use SMB v2 as a minimum.

 

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Did you guys want me to do another one of these for win98, or for the more exotic, "Services for Macintosh" using a win2k box?

 

I would start actual threads for those, if there is interest.

 

You can actually get a surprisingly new browser on win98, using the Kernelex package. (patched kernel32.dll, that includes functions found in win2k and xp, giving access to some reasonably newerish firefox builds.)

Edited by wierd_w
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3 hours ago, wierd_w said:

Did you guys want me to do another one of these for win98, or for the more exotic, "Services for Macintosh" using a win2k box?

 

I would start actual threads for those, if there is interest.

 

You can actually get a surprisingly new browser on win98, using the Kernelex package. (patched kernel32.dll, that includes functions found in win2k and xp, giving access to some reasonably newerish firefox builds.)

Yeah, Win98 would be nice. :)

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It looks like the goal altered since first post -- good. ?

 

If you want to play with old browsers, suggest only using a VM for that, unless you know how to manage custom firewalls. Even then, all the certs are expired so HTTPS is broken (and most sites are HTTPS only now)

 

If you just want to run old DOS games on a LAN, that's safe also. Connecting out to an Internet game server is risky, and forwarding in ports even more risky. Old games have known and unknown vulnerabilities, and these OS do nothing to contain the damage if something is exploited.

 

An old system like this makes for good DOS gaming, and you can run a wavetable sound card. Also good for learning DOS type C programming.

Edited by scottinNH
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2 minutes ago, scottinNH said:

It looks like the goal altered since first post -- good. ?

 

If you want to play with old browsers, suggest only using a VM for that, unless you know how to manage custom firewalls. Even then, all the certs are expired so HTTPS is broken (and most sites are HTTPS only now)

 

If you just want to run old DOS games on a LAN, that's safe also. Connecting out to an Internet game server is risky, and forwarding in ports even more risky. Old games have known and unknown vulnerabilities, and these OS do nothing to contain the damage if something is exploited.

 

An old system like this makes for good DOS gaming, and you can run a wavetable sound card. Also good for learning DOS type C programming.

I really just want to visit my own local network server...

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I set up my 1995 Packard Bell computer to get the internet back in 2015. I think I found and online tutorial of how to set it up. It doesn't load https sites but there are a ton of old http sites out there.

 

Here's a quick video I made today.

 

 

Edited by ed1475
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That has been the consensus. Yes.  There might be reasons for wanting it though. (Ancient game that wont run in (modern) windows or WINE, that does online play with dedicated server, for instance)

Most of the security issues come from the SMB stack.  If it is not bound to TCP/IP (and uses IPX/SPX instead), it would be much more safe.  Not "safe", but much "more safe". (Winsock2 has its own fair share of critical vulns...)

 

 

Despite making a graphical how-to, I think I have peppered it with enough "Subtle reminders" that this is not a good idea. :)

Edited by wierd_w
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Which edition and version of Linux do you have?

 

You'd have to install Samba on Linux and create a shared folder (if not already).  You'd have to enable SMBv1 within Samba.  If your version of Linux does not support SMBv1, you can exchange files by creating an FTP server on Linux.

 

On windows you'd have to install TCP/IP protocol, and the "Client for microsoft networks" which only supports SMBv1.  If using FTP, install an FTP client on windows.

 

----------

Enabling SMBv1 on linux, if supported:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/63372848/how-to-enable-smb1-as-default-and-disable-smb2-and-smb3-on-ubuntu-18-04-server

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1 hour ago, RetroB1977 said:

Since everybody has told me it is a bad idea to put a computer of this age online, how could I connect it my local Linux server through ethernet? (I'm sorry the goal of this post has changed a lot but I think this is the safest choice.)

There are a few things you can do to prevent it from accessing the Internet which would still allow you to communicate with local machines.

  • No default gateway in the TCP/IP settings (way easiest)
  • Give it a static IP and block it at the firewall (depends upon your router/firewall)
  • Set it up on a VLAN shared with other machines (more advanced than the rest)
  • Set it up on an IP subnet shared with other machines but not at the router/firewall
  • A bad default route in the TCP/IP stack (honestly cannot remember if 95/98 TCP/IP have the route command)
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8 hours ago, wierd_w said:

(Winsock2 has its own fair share of critical vulns...)

PING OF DEATH!  Man, so much fun in the IRC days.  Interestingly, I found that if I PoD'd Windows 95 machines running on Cyrix processors at our college computer lab (yeah, they had public IPs,) the floppy drives would seek a whole bunch of times but the systems never crashed.  And it only occurred on these Cyrix PCs.  I wish I knew the specific details (Windows build, motherboard and floppy controller, etc.)

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34 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

PING OF DEATH!  Man, so much fun in the IRC days.  Interestingly, I found that if I PoD'd Windows 95 machines running on Cyrix processors at our college computer lab (yeah, they had public IPs,) the floppy drives would seek a whole bunch of times but the systems never crashed.  And it only occurred on these Cyrix PCs.  I wish I knew the specific details (Windows build, motherboard and floppy controller, etc.)

That and others..... :D

 

Anyhow, the "You should never ever do this, but if you are unlucky enough to find yourself in a situation where you MUST do it, here is how" for win98 is complete, and a thread made.

 

I will do the "Much more useful, you might actually use this, and it will make you happy" thread about using the win2k Services for Macintosh will come another day.  I will have to dust off a linux copy of Basilisk II and get some classic mac OSes downloaded to do that one.

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1 hour ago, mr_me said:

Which edition and version of Linux do you have?

 

You'd have to install Samba on Linux and create a shared folder (if not already).  You'd have to enable SMBv1 within Samba.  If your version of Linux does not support SMBv1, you can exchange files by creating an FTP server on Linux.

 

On windows you'd have to install TCP/IP protocol, and the "Client for microsoft networks" which only supports SMBv1.  If using FTP, install an FTP client on windows.

 

----------

Enabling SMBv1 on linux, if supported:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/63372848/how-to-enable-smb1-as-default-and-disable-smb2-and-smb3-on-ubuntu-18-04-server

Linux Mint 20.2

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You will probably have to install cifs-utils. The linux parlance for "Really really old SMB" is "CIFS".

 

Then, in smb.conf, change it so it has this line for the minimum version.

 

server min protocol = NT1

 

Your Samba server will then be able to make shares the win95 machine can connect to. 

 

With cifs-utils installed, you can mount a share on the win95 host from the command line, so you can directly work with it on your linux box.

 

sudo mount -t cifs -o username=<win_share_user> //WIN_SHARE_IP/<share_name> /mnt/win_share
Edited by wierd_w
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1 hour ago, wierd_w said:

nyhow, the "You should never ever do this, but if you are unlucky enough to find yourself in a situation where you MUST do it, here is how" for win98 is complete, and a thread made.

I saw the bit about KernelEx; have you ever worked with the Unofficial Service Pack for 98SE?

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