How can this guy resell copyrighted materials as well as homebrews he does not have the rights to?

[TPR]

1 hour ago, Ang said:

The damage was done not by a review, not by any review. The damage was done when the game had a price tag of $59.00 but the quality of $3.99 game for a cell phone. 

[Kiwi]

4 hours ago, Gemintronic said:

I think a lesson here (among many) is never overreact to a negative review.  There's nothing constructive to be had and made his relationship with the reviewer and community sour.

I seen cases where the reviewer overreact to negative reviews.  Digital Homicide sued Sterling over his reviews for his game.  However, Sterling is a lawyer and got the judge throw the developer's case out.  Factor 5 was upset about the review on their game Lair due to the reviewer not understanding the motion control.  Instead of have an option for an alternate control, they sent them a manual how to play the game correctly with motion controls.  That dragged that company down sadly.  You have reviewers giving Zelda:BoW a 7/10, you don't see Nintendo sending ninjas after this reviewer. 

 

If you going to put something out in public, you're going to get comments and criticism either way.

[Razzie.P]

11 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

you don't see Nintendo sending ninjas after this reviewer. 

Well, yeah...  Wouldn't be very good ninjas if we all see them.

[TPR]

14 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

You have reviewers giving Zelda:BoW a 7/10, you don't see Nintendo sending ninjas after this reviewer. 

 

If you going to put something out in public, you're going to get comments and criticism either way.

Case in point...

 

 

This is my game.  I'm responsible for that POS.  It was terrible and deserved every bad review it was given. My exact instructions from our publisher was "It needs to just be good enough that people won't take it back to the store and ask for a refund."  We had $120,000 to work with in our software development budget, and even in 2001 that was basically nothing for a commercial game as the next game I worked on for when I went to Activision I spent millions on.

 

Anyway, my point was, I knew the game was bad. 

 

"This game is so not fun, it almost put me into a coma."

"It's ugly, bland, boring and nondescript."

 

My review of Milli's games were harsh and rightfully so, but I don't think I even said anything remotely that harsh and you didn't see me start a drama crusade against any of those magazine publishers or making false accusations toward any of them. I accepted those bad reviews and moved on. Because that's what a professional, mature adult is supposed to do. 

 

Once again, tl;dr - Not everyone is going to like your games, Milli. Especially when you're charging $59.  And if you get a bad review or constructive criticism, JUST DEAL WITH IT and move on.

 

Oh, and Mall Tycoon retailed for $19.99 in 2002. 

[nick3092]

5 hours ago, TPR said:

Now if you would excuse me, I have a lot better things to do in my life than discuss Milli.  Thank you. 

Your history would say otherwise.

[TPR]

Just now, nick3092 said:

Your history would say otherwise.

Sorry but you're absolutely wrong. 

[nick3092]

6 minutes ago, TPR said:

Sorry but you're absolutely wrong. 

So in the past six months you've not had better things to do than discuss him and his games? Because it seems like you have. 

[TPR]

14 minutes ago, nick3092 said:

So in the past six months you've not had better things to do than discuss him and his games? Because it seems like you have. 

 

Since the entire Crazy Climber situation that happened in September here are the total amount of topics I have made about Milli or any of his games:

 

11/28/21 - Crazy Climber Review

2/12/22 - Arkadion Review on AtariAge

2/12/22 - Arkadion Review on YouTube 

2/12/22 - Arkadion Gameplay Footage on YouTube

2/15/22 - Arkadion Review on Facebook

2/28/22 - Updated Arkadion Review on Facebook addressing some feedback of my review

3/4/22 - Post on Facebook addressing this topic right here, which, let me remind everyone once again, I did not start.

 

That's it! And four of those posts were basically the same post, just on different platforms.  You may THINK that there has been more posted because Milli would like you to believe that since his narrative that he is posting in multiple places, including but not limited to several FB groups, his website, and his YouTube channel, makes me look like I am constantly harassing and stalking him, but that is simply not the case at all.  You will find no "Milli Drama" in the ColecoVision Lunatics Facebook group, or on the ColecoVision Fan Facebook page.  The only drama is coming from Milli constantly telling you there is drama, but that is all a fictional narrative that he has made up playing the victim card because someone (and it is not just me) didn't like his games. 

 

I'm honestly sick of this BS.  It is not me that has been creating the "drama" and if you think posting a review of a game is "drama" then you don't know what drama actually is and you need to sit back down. 

[nick3092]

Maybe you'd have some more credibility as a neutral reviewer if you weren't so far up CollectorVision's behind (like when you deleted a thread about complaints about their recent price increase). Just saying.

[TPR]

7 minutes ago, nick3092 said:

Maybe you'd have some more credibility as a neutral reviewer if you weren't so far up CollectorVision's behind (like when you deleted a thread about complaints about their recent price increase). Just saying.

Maybe you'd have some more credibility if your posts here weren't completely rude and obnoxious. This will be the last post from you in this topic.  Goodbye. 

 

EDIT: Also, as I have already explained before, that CollectorVision topic was removed as I felt it was more appropriate for the topic to come from CollectorVision themselves, and it was a mistake for me to post about it in the first place. So if anyone has an issue with the pricing of their club, they are more than welcome to discuss it in that topic they have created and those posts will not be removed. 

[gklinger]

4 minutes ago, TPR said:

Maybe you'd have some more credibility if your posts here weren't completely rude and obnoxious. This will be the last post from you in this topic.  Goodbye. 

Perhaps it would best if you recused yourself from moderating discussions you are actively participating in to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

I only got an Adam a few months ago and joined the related Facebook groups. Since then I have encountered a great deal of drama and the common denominator in every such situation was EightBit Milli Games and/or William Hicks. It's exhausting. If he's going to share his creative works with the world (at any price) then he needs to lose the victim mentality and develop a thicker skin. Working himself into a lather over a bad review is unhealthy.

[TPR]

4 minutes ago, gklinger said:

Perhaps it would best if you recused yourself from moderating discussions you are actively participating in to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

The guys comments were rude and completely out of line. I would have moderated the same way regardless if I was participating in the thread or not.  He was also bringing up dirty laundry from months ago which had nothing to do with this topic for the sake of creating even more drama which he has had a track record of.  So while I appreciate where you're coming from, I do not feel my moderation of his posts was out of line in any way.

 

That being said...

 

7 minutes ago, gklinger said:

I only got an Adam a few months ago and joined the related Facebook groups. Since then I have encountered a great deal of drama and the common denominator in every such situation was EightBit Milli Games and/or William Hicks. It's exhausting. If he's going to share his creative works with the world (at any price) then he needs to lose the victim mentality and develop a thicker skin. Working himself into a lather over a bad review is unhealthy.

I agree 100% - Moderating Facebook groups and web based forums is mostly a thankless job and people don't understand the volume of work that goes on behind the scenes.  I have gone to great lengths to keep Milli drama out of my group and out of these forums because I have seen first hand how much in infects other groups, and my goal here and in my FB groups is for the members to have a great time discussing the ColecoVision, because that is what they are there for.  

 

I'm honestly pretty close to just closing this topic as well, but then if I do that, I'll get some people who will thank me for that and some people who will yell at me for it.  It's really a no-win situation and I just hope it all dies out on its own. 

[gklinger]

15 minutes ago, TPR said:

So while I appreciate where you're coming from, I do not feel my moderation of his posts was out of line in any way.

So we're clear, I didn't say you were or weren't our of line. It's about the appearance of impropriety. It's part of the canon of ethics in the legal profession and one that is generally good to apply in most situations. You can find more here if you're interested. You are right about being damned if you do and damned if you don't. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

Edited March 5, 2022 by gklinger

[TPR]

3 minutes ago, gklinger said:

So we're clear, I didn't say you were or weren't our of line. It's about the appearance of impropriety. It's part of the canon of ethics in the legal profession and one that is generally good to apply in most situations. 

Oh, I understood what you were saying.  As I said before, being a moderator is a very thankless job and there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes that often goes under appreciated.  If @Albert feels that any topic or post that I have moderated should be done by someone else or have been done differently, that's for him to decide and give me the smack down.  In short, while I respect your comments, please let the moderators here do the moderating as best as we see fit.  Thank you. 

[youxia]

11 hours ago, TPR said:

As for everything else he's creating drama about, aside from the crazy climber stuff that was the catalyst for this whole mess, which once again I just want to remind everyone that **HE ASKED FOR FEEDBACK ON HIS GAME** and I posted my comments.

You posted your comments, which normally would be fine (if perhaps a little too overzealous) but when he replied, you started deleting his replies! When some people objected to this, me included, you deleted our comments too. This was one of the most preposterous examples of abuse of moderating powers I have ever seen and, believe me, I have seen a lot. Doing a hatchet job on somebody's work is one thing, but refusing them a right to defend it because of mod powers is completely different kettle of fish.

 

This is a behavioural pattern of yours I have seen being repeated since, and happening when somebody disagrees with you (deleting, thread locking, etc). I saw it first in that Crazy Climber thread, but apparently it's not a new thing since it's even been written about on a well respected tech blog years ago. And it is happening in this thread as we speak, since you threatened locking it as soon as somebody objected to your narrative.

 

Let me say again, because it's important, that I'm completely uninvolved in the whole Coleco scene, and I have no connection to tribal divisions and this drama in particular (which seems to be something that's been going on for ages). I know very little about this "Milli" person and, in fact, from what I do know it indeed doesn't seem like his operations are something I'd be a big fan of. He seems to be a bit too eager to monetize his stuff, the Gamer's Club was ridiculous and so on. So, I'm not taking tribal sides here, I simply like this forum a lot and I'm a bit concerned about its integrity, even if it's only in regard to this particular corner of this huge board.

 

You seem to really dislike this guy and perhaps you even have at least some valid reasons for it, however this is absolutely not an excuse to abuse your moderator powers! If he's done something against the rules of this board, then he should be warned and subsequently banned. If not, then he should be allowed to post and put his side of the story forward, and so should be all other people who might have different view from yours and those who support you. And please, spare me the usual excuses about "rudeness" or the need for "thread cleaning" because I have seen that Crazy Climber thread unfold live (plus some other one I don't remember now) and there was absolutely nothing untoward, with people being rather civil and reasonable - at least nothing different than usual disagreements on this board. And, yes, I would very much like to hear what @Albert has to say about this. He clearly either supports you or is unaware of the other side of this story, though this is unlikely since I've been told other people have sent him messages about it. And I'd like to hear it in the open, not in PMs.

 

 

[MMarcoux66]

1 hour ago, youxia said:

This is a behavioural pattern of yours I have seen being repeated since, and happening when somebody disagrees with you (deleting, thread locking, etc). I saw it first in that Crazy Climber thread, but apparently it's not a new thing since it's even been written about on a well respected tech blog years ago. And it is happening in this thread as we speak, since you threatened locking it as soon as somebody objected to your narrative.

I would not take that article you reference with any validity. Many have discredited the claims. Well-respected, I think not, it was written by an angry troll unfortunately from what I can tell.  Someone pissed him off and he went off on everyone in this community not just TPR. 

 

Understand that I have no agenda. I do not work for any of the homebrewers. I am here to share the enjoyment of CV with others as it played a huge part in my childhood. Ironically I was the one who asked for this threat to be locked once it deviated from my original concern of Milli's club and other's games being used in the promotion.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by MMarcoux66

[youxia]

2 hours ago, MMarcoux66 said:

I would not take that article you reference with any validity. Many have discredited the claims. Well-respected, I think not, it was written by an angry troll unfortunately from what I can tell.  Someone pissed him off and he went off on everyone in this community not just TPR. 

If you want to dismiss NerdlyPleasures (who I think might be going by @Great Hierophant on this board, unless it's a coincidence) as "an angry troll" then go ahead, but as it is he's a writer of some of the most insightful and knowledgeable articles on the topic of retro computing out there. In any case, it's not really about the  "claims" regarding Coleco hardware, but his description of TPR's behaviour. Since a) it matches my observations coming from another topic, years later,  and b) comes from somebody whose opinion I've respected for years, then yes, it has a lot of validity for me. In this light the claims of even deeply biased and involved people such as Milli himself gain credibility. We're not living in a Star Wars movie, where there's only Light & Dark, and nothing in between. There are no righteous heroes, even in a silly niche hobby such as ours, and so your "valiant" mod might be pursuing his own dubious agendas as much as the "bad" dev.

 

In any case, I'm not really interested in arguing about it all, neither with you, nor TPR, nor any other of the people who take his side (and of course anybody can say that that they have "no agenda" and it's all just for the good of community. As did I, but as all of you know I really have no connection here. You can scan my post history if you doubt that). And once you take sides, it's just repeating the same thing over and over. I have had enough retro-drama in my neck of the woods over the years (as any Amiga or Sinclair fans will know) and I'm sick of it all, of 40+ year old farts bitterly going at each other's throats over ancient games and machines, it is simply ridiculous.

 

Therefore the only thing I am interested in is @Albert's take on TPR's actions, since it is directly relevant to the entire AA community which I am actually a part of.

 

 

[MMarcoux66]

5 minutes ago, youxia said:

If you want to dismiss NerdlyPleasures (who I think might be going by @Great Hierophant on this board, unless it's a coincidence) as "an angry troll" then go ahead, but as it is he's a writer of some of the most insightful and knowledgeable articles on the topic of retro computing out there. In any case, it's not really about the  "claims" regarding Coleco hardware, but his description of TPR's behaviour. Since a) it matches my observations coming from another topic, years later,  and b) comes from somebody whose opinion I've respected for years, then yes, it has a lot of validity for me. In this light the claims of even deeply biased and involved people such as Milli himself gain credibility. We're not living in a Star Wars movie, where there's only Light & Dark, and nothing in between. There are no righteous heroes, even in a silly niche hobby such as ours, and so your "valiant" mod might be pursuing his own dubious agendas as much as the "bad" dev.

 

In any case, I'm not really interested in arguing about it all, neither with you, nor TPR, nor any other of the people who take his side (and of course anybody can say that that they have "no agenda" and it's all just for the good of community. As did I, but as all of you know I really have no connection here. You can scan my post history if you doubt that). And once you take sides, it's just repeating the same thing over and over. I have had enough retro-drama in my neck of the woods over the years (as any Amiga or Sinclair fans will know) and I'm sick of it all, of 40+ year old farts bitterly going at each other's throats over ancient games and machines, it is simply ridiculous.

 

Therefore the only thing I am interested in is @Albert's take on TPR's actions, since it is directly relevant to the entire AA community which I am actually a part of.

 

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Enjoy your day :D.

[+lawdawg710]

10 minutes ago, youxia said:

If you want to dismiss NerdlyPleasures (who I think might be going by @Great Hierophant on this board, unless it's a coincidence) as "an angry troll" then go ahead, but as it is he's a writer of some of the most insightful and knowledgeable articles on the topic of retro computing out there. In any case, it's not really about the  "claims" regarding Coleco hardware, but his description of TPR's behaviour. Since a) it matches my observations coming from another topic, years later,  and b) comes from somebody whose opinion I've respected for years, then yes, it has a lot of validity for me. In this light the claims of even deeply biased and involved people such as Milli himself gain credibility. We're not living in a Star Wars movie, where there's only Light & Dark, and nothing in between. There are no righteous heroes, even in a silly niche hobby such as ours, and so your "valiant" mod might be pursuing his own dubious agendas as much as the "bad" dev.

 

In any case, I'm not really interested in arguing about it all, neither with you, nor TPR, nor any other of the people who take his side (and of course anybody can say that that they have "no agenda" and it's all just for the good of community. As did I, but as all of you know I really have no connection here. You can scan my post history if you doubt that). And once you take sides, it's just repeating the same thing over and over. I have had enough retro-drama in my neck of the woods over the years (as any Amiga or Sinclair fans will know) and I'm sick of it all, of 40+ year old farts bitterly going at each other's throats over ancient games and machines, it is simply ridiculous.

 

Therefore the only thing I am interested in is @Albert's take on TPR's actions, since it is directly relevant to the entire AA community which I am actually a part of.

 

 

And yet, here you are interjecting your "view" in the CV community which you admit you have no stake in and are not involved in.........so why not just message Albert directly?  Or post about it in your gaming area?  Honestly, Al has stated he has supported TPR and if there was any discrepency or issue to how things have gone Al has made that clear.  Looking through vrious topics here, you would see what I am talking about.

 

Oh and the "author" of that article was by someone here who was banned and created a LOT of drama particularly with Opcode......so if you say you respect his opinion, then honestly that truly says alot about you!!!  Have a great day sir!!!

[TPR]

4 hours ago, youxia said:

You posted your comments, which normally would be fine (if perhaps a little too overzealous) but when he replied, you started deleting his replies! When some people objected to this, me included, you deleted our comments too. This was one of the most preposterous examples of abuse of moderating powers I have ever seen and, believe me, I have seen a lot. Doing a hatchet job on somebody's work is one thing, but refusing them a right to defend it because of mod powers is completely different kettle of fish.

 

This is a behavioural pattern of yours I have seen being repeated since, and happening when somebody disagrees with you (deleting, thread locking, etc). I saw it first in that Crazy Climber thread, but apparently it's not a new thing since it's even been written about on a well respected tech blog years ago. And it is happening in this thread as we speak, since you threatened locking it as soon as somebody objected to your narrative.

 

Let me say again, because it's important, that I'm completely uninvolved in the whole Coleco scene, and I have no connection to tribal divisions and this drama in particular (which seems to be something that's been going on for ages). I know very little about this "Milli" person and, in fact, from what I do know it indeed doesn't seem like his operations are something I'd be a big fan of. He seems to be a bit too eager to monetize his stuff, the Gamer's Club was ridiculous and so on. So, I'm not taking tribal sides here, I simply like this forum a lot and I'm a bit concerned about its integrity, even if it's only in regard to this particular corner of this huge board.

 

You seem to really dislike this guy and perhaps you even have at least some valid reasons for it, however this is absolutely not an excuse to abuse your moderator powers! If he's done something against the rules of this board, then he should be warned and subsequently banned. If not, then he should be allowed to post and put his side of the story forward, and so should be all other people who might have different view from yours and those who support you. And please, spare me the usual excuses about "rudeness" or the need for "thread cleaning" because I have seen that Crazy Climber thread unfold live (plus some other one I don't remember now) and there was absolutely nothing untoward, with people being rather civil and reasonable - at least nothing different than usual disagreements on this board. And, yes, I would very much like to hear what @Albert has to say about this. He clearly either supports you or is unaware of the other side of this story, though this is unlikely since I've been told other people have sent him messages about it. And I'd like to hear it in the open, not in PMs.

 

 

Comments and posts are deleted or edited and threads locked or removed when a “discussion” starts to go off the rails and devolves into pointless drama. 
 

Maybe that’s the kind of thing you thrive on, but the moderators and admins here at AtariAge don’t. 
 

When we see a topic devolve into something that is no longer appropriate for the forums, that’s when we step in and get it back on track, and if that is not possible, a thread will be locked or removed. 
 

The topics you are referencing are by far some of the best examples of discussions that went completely off the rails by people who seem infatuated with drama, including the individual that wrote the article you quoted. He was so infatuated with continuing that pointless drama he took time out of his day to write a blog about it. 
 

 

That’s not the kind of behavior we want in these forums and I’m sure @Albert would agree with that. 

[TPR]

5 hours ago, MMarcoux66 said:

Ironically I was the one who asked for this threat to be locked once it deviated from my original concern of Milli's club and other's games being used in the promotion.

And I did considered locking it, but then past examples, just like the one I responded to above, get me in trouble for doing my job as a moderator. ?‍♀️
 

It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. 

 

This is why I say moderating or being an admin of any online discussion forum is a very thankless job. People do not see the insane amount of work that goes on behind the scenes or realize the volume of petty drama we deal with outside of what you see on your screen. 
 

I make no money from doing any of this and I have never even asked @Albert or any of the other homebrewers for as much as a free game for the time I spend being involved. 
 

I do it out of my passion for the community and the desire to keep the topics being discussed as positive and forward-thinking as I can. 
 

So if it seems like I have very little patience for people who want to thrive on drama, you are right. And if anyone thinks I’m moderating something just to spin “my narrative” you are wrong. 
 

I have zero interest in discussing that further, because as someone with two full time jobs and a family at 52 years old, I have much better things to do with my time than discussing or partaking in drama on the Internet with people who seem to only come out of the woodwork or respond in these topics when there is drama to get excited about. 

 

tl;dr - Go gossip at someone else's water cooler. 
 

That all being said, @MMarcoux66, your request to have this thread locked has been duly noted and trust me, if it starts to devolve any further, I will most certainly lock it. 
 

It was a good topic to start, however, and I agree with you, what you stated needed to be said, so I thank you for that. 

[Tempest]

This has gone on far longer than it should have.  Either buy his games or don't, it's up to you.   

 

As for his reselling of copyrighted materials, that's something the copyright holders are going to have to pursue.  It's not going to get solved here.

 

Please don't bring this subject up again.  You've all been warned

[TPR]

1 minute ago, Tempest said:

This has gone on far longer than it should have.  Either buy his games or don't, it's up to you.   

 

As for his reselling of copyrighted materials, that's something the copyright holders are going to have to pursue.  It's not going to get solved here.

 

Please don't bring this subject up again.  You've all been warned

Agreed. And with that, let’s just close this thread as it has gone off the rails and even the original poster has asked for it to be closed.