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Best and Worst Things About the 7800


Brainworm

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I'm a long-time 2600 owner who has fond memories of playing Joust and Galaga with my childhood BFF on his 7800. I'm on the fence about whether to get another system, and whether that system ought to be a 7800.

 

1) What are the best things about owning a 7800 (vs. playing 7800 games using an emulator)? and

2) What are the worst?

 

 

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If your on the fence about getting a 7800 vs emulation, then you'll have to ask yourself why do you want one. If it's to experience the titles of your youth, an emulator is fine in most cases. If you want to collect for it, or experience the new Homebrew that isn't always released digitally then I would get a console. 

 

Connecting a 7800 to a modern TV isn't super difficult but it is coaxial unless you want to mod for av or buy a premodded console which makes it look nicer on the screen.

 

I enjoy having my old games on a shelf to look at and play but I'm fine playing most other consoles via emulation because I don't have the attachment to them or the want to collect for them. 

 

I don't know if any of that helps but it's my initial thoughts. 

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Pros

  • Great graphics - I love the look of arcade ports on the 7800. Compared to other systems, 7800 games just look so clean. The colors really pop with how vibrant they are, and there's basically no flicker.
  • Arcade ports - While the 7800 doesn't have a large library, it makes up for it by having some great arcade conversions. Robotron, Xevious, Dig Dug, Centipede, Joust, all incredible and remarkably close to the original arcade machines.
  • Homebrew - 7800 probably has my favorite homebrew scene of any console. A lot of classic arcade games that were initially missing were given great ports thanks to the homebrew community. It's also one of the easier consoles to program for. 7800basic isn't that hard to pick up, and there's always people willing to help you if you get stuck on something. As an up and coming homebrew developer, I'm really thankful for how helpful the community has been.

Cons

  • Sound - The sound in most 7800 games sucks, but there are thankfully workarounds like the POKEY and YAMAHA for better sound. And for arcade games with simple sound effects, the TIA actually does a great job with that.
  • Small library - This is most likely due to Nintendo and Sega stealing all of the good properties, along with general Atari incompetence. A lot of games that could have been classics ended up getting cancelled, and some games that deserved to be on 7800 unfortunately never made it. But with the homebrew scene around, there's always a chance for more games to be ported to the console.

Overall, 7800 is a really great system. It's probably my favorite oddball console. I'm not a big fan of stuff like the 5200 or Colecovision, but the 7800 really sticks with me. I love the hardware, I love the homebrew scene, I love the arcade ports, it's just good all around.

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Pretty much everyone has said it all, but I think it's worth reiterating:

 

Pros:

  • Backwards compatibility with the 2600
  • Controller port (semi-) compatibility
  • Excellent homebrew scene
  • Pinnacle of ports for a handful of arcade games (Centipede, Food Fight, Robotron, and that's not mentioning the homebrews)
  • Looks great when modded

I'll add a few extra cons, too.

  • Bad sound, bad controllers, small library, terrible management
  • I don't love the color palette
  • Metal plate gets dinged up and is glaringly obvious
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7800 vs emulation:

 

If you're into emulation, you'll probably never play 7800 Double Dragon. It pales in comparison to the arcade, and you'll wind up playing that instead. If you have the cart, you're more likely to give it a chance and learn to appreciate it in its own way. Same for Donkey Kong.

 

The 7800 console buttons can get dirty and need replacing to work, and the power supply uses an unique jack.

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20 minutes ago, toiletunes said:

7800 vs emulation:

 

If you're into emulation, you'll probably never play 7800 Double Dragon. It pales in comparison to the arcade, and you'll wind up playing that instead. If you have the cart, you're more likely to give it a chance and learn to appreciate it in its own way. Same for Donkey Kong.

 

The 7800 console buttons can get dirty and need replacing to work, and the power supply uses an unique jack.

That's a good point about playing the games, and while I like double dragon for the 7800 I doubt I would pay what it's going for lately.  But I would've never played it if I didn't own it back in the day either. 

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Agree with most of what has been said.  Some other thoughts:

 

Good

- I do like having a pause button as well as the A/B difficulty switches.  Wish there was pause on the controller, but so be it.  There's something about physical switches on a console that's cool.

- It's a nice, sleek-looking console

- Food Fight!

- All the 2-player arcade classcis.

 

Bad

- The controller ports and A/B switches being under the front edge of the system is a little bit inconvenient.

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7800 Vs Emulation, dare I say lag. Yes I know there are "fixes" but the emulation still feels off to me.

Not tried emulation on MiSTer yet, hopefully that will be better when my DE10 nano finally gets shipped 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Good.  The early arcade conversions that GCC did.  
Homebrew scene.

 

Bad.  Inherent poor video quality of the maria chip, Tia looks much better, especially on PAL.  NTSC isnt great either, but more tolerable.    I’m not talking RF either.  

Variable build quality mostly on later PAL machines.

Edited by marauder666
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Good:

They are still available on ebay. I just put in a bid for one.

Very helpful homebrew community.

Appears to be close enough for the Lynx with resolution and colours. So you can re-use graphics!

There is some interesting programmable carts in the works.

 

Bad:
I still don't have one.

 

9 hours ago, Jaden (JRH) said:

The colors really pop with how vibrant they are

Once I get my hands on a 7800 then making some way to get the video to a LCD or TV is on my to-do list.

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13 hours ago, BydoEmpire said:

Agree with most of what has been said.  Some other thoughts:

 

Good

- I do like having a pause button as well as the A/B difficulty switches.  Wish there was pause on the controller, but so be it.  There's something about physical switches on a console that's cool.

You compensated for this with Wizard's Dungeon using a joystick combo to initial the pause function though?

 

Even then, it is possible with a little modification on both controllers and console, to create a remote pause ability. I've done it while tinkering with my own but didn't actually install. But yes it but it can be done.

 

Edited by -^CrossBow^-
Spelling & Clarification
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The best things

It looks cool and its sleek. I still don't own a 5200 to this day because I dont wanna look at it's big ugly ass

The graphics are pimp

Cool weird little library of games.

The homebrew scene is exciting

 

The worst things

The sound was inexcusably bad.

Too small of a library during its run with too many bad games.

The controllers are awkward for some titles.

 

 

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The 7800 is one of my favourite consoles, there are some big caveats though.

 

The good:

- Staggeringly good homebrew scene (thanks Bob and Co).

- Some decent and cheap OG releases.

- UK gamepad isn't horrific.

- Back compatible with 2600.

- A selection of flash carts out there now, with another on the horizon.

 

The bad:

- Massively variable in hardware terms. The PAL systems are unreasonably compromised unless you are very lucky and bag a good one. The PQ on all systems is quite compromised but is easier to deal with on the NTSC machines.

- The US joystick is the stuff of nightmares.

 

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I enjoy my 7800s.  I have one that I play all the time and a nicer, shinier one for show.  

 

Pros:

  • plays 2600 games as well as 7800
  • nice graphics
  • lots of cool new homebrews all the time
  • sleek modern look

 

Cons:

  • sound sucks
  • proline controllers are terrible
  • small original library (great for collecting though!)
  • some third party 2600 games will not fit in the slot easily

 

Many of the cons can be overcome easily though.  The Proline controllers can be upgraded to CX78 game pads.  These are pretty nice (think NES pad) except the action buttons are placed a little awkwardly.  The small original library can be overcome with some of the awesome homebrews out there.  Additionally, there is an adapter for tight fitting 2600 games, or you can modify the 7800 cart slot if that's your thing, to make them fit.

 

Overall I would highly recommend the 7800 for any classic console collector because it is versatile and fun.  Good luck and happy gaming!

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On 3/17/2022 at 2:27 PM, Brainworm said:

I'm a long-time 2600 owner who has fond memories of playing Joust and Galaga with my childhood BFF on his 7800. I'm on the fence about whether to get another system, and whether that system ought to be a 7800.

 

1) What are the best things about owning a 7800 (vs. playing 7800 games using an emulator)? and

2) What are the worst?

 

 

Worst things are the weird power connector, shoddy buttons (power, pause, select, reset), small game library, poorly implemented joystick necessary for 2 button games, also only 2 buttons. Terrible sound. Low resolution.

 

Best thing are 2600 compatibility. More modern styling than the 2600 (the styling of the 2600 is great if you like it, but badly dated and screams 1970s. Might not fit in with black plastic crap TV). With the 2600 games it has a huge and growing library.  Has some great arcade ports, some not available elsewhere. Is capable of good sound with a cart chip. Decent graphics with multicolored sprite (5200 and Colecovision lack them).

 

I say go for it and use the 7800 as your 2600. AFAIK, it is 100% compatible. Decent homebrew library which is growing.  I don't think they cost that much either.

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On 3/17/2022 at 2:50 PM, Corby said:

Cons- ...Not putting a Pokey for arcade sound and controllers.

 

On 3/17/2022 at 5:12 PM, Jaden (JRH) said:

Cons

  • Sound - The sound in most 7800 games sucks, but there are thankfully workarounds like the POKEY and YAMAHA for better sound. And for arcade games with simple sound effects, the TIA actually does a great job with that.

 

On 3/17/2022 at 5:24 PM, Rhomaios said:

I'll add a few extra cons, too.

  • Bad sound...

 

On 3/18/2022 at 9:39 AM, Cousin Vinnie said:

The worst things

The sound was inexcusably bad.

 

On 3/18/2022 at 10:15 AM, joeatari1 said:

Cons:

  • sound sucks

 

9 hours ago, christo930 said:

Worst things are ... Terrible sound…

 

2 hours ago, Cyprian said:

Cons:

- lack of good soundchip

 

Yes, TIA was outdated by 1984 (and even more by 1986). But it's much more capable than its reputation suggests. I think it gets a bad rap because people judge it by games that use it poorly. For example, I've seen people name Donkey Kong 7800 as an example of TIA sound. But listen to D.K. VCS (2600 homebrew with no special audio hardware) and it becomes clear that Donkey Kong 7800 should instead be cited as an example of rushed ports. And then people use TIA's bad reputation to justify further poor usage, or to use POKEY when TIA might have sounded great.

 

From the original 7800 library, Ms. Pac-Man is pure TIA and sounds fantastic. Xevious also sounds really good.

 

Anyway, I think the OP was asking about advantages and disadvantages of owning an actual 7800 as opposed to playing 7800 games in emulation. TIA sound from a 7800 console is no worse than in emulation.

 

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1 hour ago, Pat Brady said:

es, TIA was outdated by 1984 (and even more by 1986). But it's much more capable than its reputation suggests. I think it gets a bad rap because people judge it by games that use it poorly. For example, I've seen people name Donkey Kong 7800 as an example of TIA sound. But listen to D.K. VCS (2600 homebrew with no special audio hardware) and it becomes clear that Donkey Kong 7800 should instead be cited as an example of rushed ports. And then people use TIA's bad reputation to justify further poor usage, or to use POKEY when TIA might have sounded great.

 

From the original 7800 library, Ms. Pac-Man is pure TIA and sounds fantastic. Xevious also sounds really good.

 

Anyway, I think the OP was asking about advantages and disadvantages of owning an actual 7800 as opposed to playing 7800 games in emulation. TIA sound from a 7800 console is no worse than in emulation.

 

Obviously it is trivially easy to make bad sound/music with any chip. The TIA is quite adequate for sound effects and perhaps even simple musical tunes, but it is entirely inadequate to be used in a generation of console coming out after the 5200 which had the Pokey.  The 7800 is the only console whose sound chip is worse than the console it is replacing.  Imagine this marketing blurb on the side of the 7800 box. "ALL NEW Atari 7800!  Upgrade to the new console with worse sound!!!"

 

Not including a Pokey or other more advanced sound chip was a huge mistake by Atari and it is a major shortcoming.  Hell, the Intellivision has better sound.  Just about every console out there in 1983 had a better sound chip.

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