Is the Amico dead?

[MrBeefy]

3 hours ago, roadrunner said:

Found the games list -

From wiki 
 

Games
According to Tallarico, all games for the Amico will be both single player and multiplayer, with local cooperative play.[38] Six games will come included with the Amico, and more than 20 additional games are expected to be available at launch.[38] Five of the six included games have been announced as Skiing, Astrosmash, Shark! Shark!, Cornhole, and Farkle, with the sixth game being a party game.[36] Digitally downloaded games will generally be priced at $9.99 (€8.49) or less, while physical copies of games will be available at retail for US$19.99 (€17.99).[25][37] In July 2021, the first 50,000 run of physical game products for both Europe and North America were manufactured.[39]
 

Title    Developer    Source
10 Yard Fight        [29]
ACL Cornhole        [40]
Archon    React Games    [29]
Asteroids        [29]
Astrosmash    Rogue Rocket Games    [29]
B-17 Bomber⁑        [29]
Back Talk Party        [36]
Bad Dudes⁑        [29]
Baseball        [29]
Beauty and the Beast⁑        [41]
Biplanes    WastedStudios    [38]
Blank Slate        [42]
Bomb Squad    International Headquarters    [36]
Bowling        [29]
Boxing        [29]
Brain Duel    BBG Entertainment    [38]
Breakout    Choice Provisions    [29]
Bump 'n' Jump        [17]
Caveman Ninja        [29]
Care Bears Care Karts    PlayDate Digital    [19]
Cloudy Mountain*    Other Ocean    [29]
Darts        [36]
Demon Attack        [29]
Dolphin Quest    Playchemy    [17]
Dracula        [29]
Dragon Fire⁑        [41]
Dynablaster    BBG Entertainment    [38]
Earthworm Jim 4    Intellivision Entertainment    [43]
Emoji Charades    GameCake    [44]
Evel Knievel    Barnstorm Games    [38]
Farkle    Spaceflower    [37]
Finnigan Fox    Bonus Level Entertainment    [38]
Flying Tigers        [17]
Frog Bog        [29]
Horse Racing        [29]
Hot Wheels Colossal Crash        [42]
Ice Trek        [41]
Incan Gold / Diamont        [42]
Jungle Hunt        [36]
Kung-Fu Master        [29]
Liar's Dice    The Bitmap Brothers    [42]
Lode Runner    Tozai Games    [41]
Math Fun        [45]
Miner 2049er        [29]
Missile Command    Stainless Games    [38]
MLB Baseball        [41]
Moon Patrol: The Milky Way Chronicles    WastedStudios    [38]
MotoRace USA        [29]
Night Driver        [29]
Night Stalker    Other Ocean    [17]
Nitro Derby    Chicken Waffle    [42]
Pong    Way Digital Studios    [36]
Pool    Pool Legends IVS    [36]
R-Type        [29]
Rigid Force Redux Enhanced    com8com1, Headup    [42]
Sesame Street games        [42]
Shark! Shark!    Neobird, Bonus Level Entertainment    [29]
Skiing    Aesir Interactive    [17]
Snafoo    Thera Bytes    [29]
Space Strikers    Couch in the Woods Interactive    [42]
Spades*    Concrete Software    [36]
Spelunker        [29]
Soccer        [17]
Super BurgerTime        [45]
Tank Battle    Lost Mesa Entertainment    [24]
Telestrations        [42]
Tempest        [29]
A Toejam and Earl title        [45]
Tron Deadly Discs[46]    Other Ocean    [29]
Tropical Angel        [29]
Utopia        [36]
Warlords    Stainless Games    [36]
Yar's Revenge    

 

This list isn't reliable. Most of them are, Wouldn't That Be Somethings. Toe Jam and Earl are not coming to Amico and dev said they barely got past the concept stage of updating their game.

 

I love how Tron is listed but there is zero evidence they got the license from Disney to make it.

 

6 pack ins and the 8 boxes + Emoji Charades are the only ones I'd assume are coming out. Everything else is a wish or we emailed someone about working on it potential.

[MrBeefy]

7 hours ago, kevtris said:

tommy posted them loud and proud. 

 

 

I find it funny they took time to design multiple commandments, yet couldn't find the time to make their own tank assets. 

[mr_me]

 

5 hours ago, roadrunner said:

I couldn't find a Amico games list but found these two articles.

...

The FAQ on their web site has a list of about twenty games that are expected to be available around the time the system is released.  There is a second list of twenty games there that includes some that are ready, some in progress,  and others that are only licensed for future development.

https://intellivision.com/faq

 

The guys at Wikipedia just list titles that have been named in what they consider reliable sources, i.e. certain web sites.  Some of those games may only have been licensed for future development while other game projects might have been put on hold.

 

9 hours ago, orange808 said:

...I hear they don't want games patched, right? Amico is connected to the network, but we can't push patches? Really?? Why doesn't anything about this machine make sense? If you're arbitrarily limiting patches from your store, you have an obligation to your customers to handle the additional QA (in house) to guarantee quality. Games are the entire point and the experience (right or wrong) always reflects on the hardware manufacturer and store host. You can say it wasn't your fault, but perception is reality--and perception is everything.

...

Games can be patched.  They don't want in-game purchases or people to have to pay extra once they bought the game.  Problems with an Amico game can be patched after release.

 

20 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

It looks like you're counting 'busy work' and extra offices in that $700 cost to make the dev units.  

 

Why not just add in the full year's salary for each extra employee, plus costs for extra offices and say that each dev unit cost $100k?

I'm not counting anything.  Like I said the $700 cost comes from the company not me.  It's in the range discussed here for building systems by hand in small quantities.  Multiple offices has nothing to do with that cost. I mentioned Salt Lake would have one because that's where their game testers are.  Their European rep likely has one because he's consistently showing it to people.

Edited April 12, 2022 by mr_me

[digdugnate]

4 minutes ago, mr_me said:

 

The FAQ on their web site has a list of about twenty games that are expected to be available around the time the system is released.  There is a second list of twenty games there that includes some that are ready but others that are only licensed for future development.

https://intellivision.com/faq

 

Games can be patched.  They don't want in-game purchases or people to have to pay extra once they bought the game.  Problems with an Amico game can be patched after release.

 

I'm not counting anything.  Like I said the $700 cost comes from the company not me.  It's in the range discussed here for building systems by hand in small quantities.  Multiple offices has nothing to do with that cost. I mentioned Salt Lake would have one because that's where their game testers are.  Their European rep likely has one because he's consistently showing it to people.

Like so many things in Amicoland, maybe it was said on some obscure channel or something, but you still haven't answered my query for where 'the company' came up with the $700 hand-built cost.  I'm not interested in the cost, I'm interested in the specific creditable source.  

 

If there isn't a source I could say that it cost a hundred million bajillion dollars and still be as accurate as the $700 estimate.

[mr_me]

8 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

Like so many things in Amicoland, maybe it was said on some obscure channel or something, but you still haven't answered my query for where 'the company' came up with the $700 hand-built cost.  I'm not interested in the cost, I'm interested in the specific creditable source.  

 

If there isn't a source I could say that it cost a hundred million bajillion dollars and still be as accurate as the $700 estimate.

You don't have to believe that they said it and that I heard them say it in an interview.  It's okay with me.  And if you heard them say it and still don't believe them, that's okay too.  Do you think the cost should be higher or lower?

Edited April 12, 2022 by mr_me

[digdugnate]

1 minute ago, mr_me said:

You don't have to believe that they said it and that I heard then say it in an interview.  It's okay with me.

Ok, so that's what I was thinking- spoken interview.  Gotcha.  Thanks!

[atarifan88]

 

1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

lol oops, that's Football Manager, not Football Simulator. You probably knew that I mean that anyway, right...?

I've heard of people talking to themselves in person, but never on a message board.  I think all this Amico drama is getting to you! ??

[atarifan88]

36 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

I find it funny they took time to design multiple commandments, yet couldn't find the time to make their own tank assets. 

Good one! ?

[SegaSnatcher]

I wonder if they are still using the Star Fox "borrowed" intro for Moon Patrol. 

[atarifan88]

Back to the question the OP asked, "Is the Amico dead?"  See for yourself...

 

[digdugnate]

[Steven Pendleton]

34 minutes ago, atarifan88 said:

 

I've heard of people talking to themselves in person, but never on a message board.  I think all this Amico drama is getting to you! ??

That's me addressing the reader (you, others, etc.), not myself.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Steven Pendleton

[atarifan88]

24 minutes ago, Steven Pendleton said:

That's me addressing the reader (you, others, etc.), not myself.

I know.  I was joking because at first read it looked like you were talking to yourself.

[orange808]

2 hours ago, mr_me said:

Games can be patched.  They don't want in-game purchases or people to have to pay extra once they bought the game.  Problems with an Amico game can be patched after release.

Thanks for clearing that up. I admit only a passing general curiosity about the platform, so there's a lot of things I won't understand. My apologies for sounding over critical, but I believe anyone making a game (that isn't moonlighting) requires gambling valuable time and money, so it requires some critical analysis. 

 

Personally, I would still worry about a path to profitability without some form of upselling, but that's all above my pay grade. And, everything may be fluid. Things change.

 

Best of luck to the company. 

[Bill Loguidice]

6 minutes ago, orange808 said:

Thanks for clearing that up. I admit only a passing general curiosity about the platform, so there's a lot of things I won't understand. My apologies for sounding over critical, but I believe anyone making a game (that isn't moonlighting) requires gambling valuable time and money, so it requires some critical analysis. 

 

Personally, I would still worry about a path to profitability without some form of upselling, but that's all above my pay grade. And, everything may be fluid. Things change.

 

Best of luck to the company. 

The games aren't physical (except for the overpriced "empty" boxes some of us bought), so, in theory, profitability wouldn't be an issue with a sufficient user base. Of course, even if this does get released, its reputation is probably beyond repair. For those of us, like me, who invested in a founder's edition, I would at least want to get the system and the games I have the physical boxes for. I wouldn't be optimistic for much beyond some type of minimal release.

[youxia]

Threads/comments like these are why reddit always was, and most likely will be, the cesspool of the internet. These people are no different from the more obsessed Amico cultists they are trying to mock, and their viciousness gives credence to at least some of Tallarico's harrassment claims (not that it excuses him trying to turn it into a martyrdom narrative and use against any "normal" critic though).

 

I do disagree with mr_me on most things, and vice versa, but at least we do that in a civilized fashion. I do question the wisdom of trying to rebuke and explain nearly every single anti-Amico claim, but he's got the same right to do so as people who obsessively come up with said claims. And since he always does it in a polite and impassioned manner he's the one who retains my respect, and not a bunch of pathetic Internet Tough Guy caricatures.

[SegaSnatcher]

35 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

The games aren't physical (except for the overpriced "empty" boxes some of us bought), so, in theory, profitability wouldn't be an issue with a sufficient user base. Of course, even if this does get released, its reputation is probably beyond repair. For those of us, like me, who invested in a founder's edition, I would at least want to get the system and the games I have the physical boxes for. I wouldn't be optimistic for much beyond some type of minimal release.

Honestly, that is a very realistic way to go into this as someone who has an Amico preordered, I respect that.  Unfortunately, there are still a lot of people who preordered the Amico living in some strange fantasy world where they still want to believe in all of those "Wouldn't that be something" takes.  I have no problem with people who still want an Amico, but just be realistic about it. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by SegaSnatcher

[Bill Loguidice]

26 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

Honestly, that is a very realistic way to go into this as someone who has an Amico preordered, I respect that.  Unfortunately, there are still a lot of people who preordered the Amico living in some strange fantasy world where they still want to believe in all of those "Wouldn't that be something" takes.  I have no problem with people who still want an Amico, but just be realistic about it. 

I do find that small segment difficult to understand. When the well-researched article hit about the clear financial troubles and incredibly tenuous company standing, there were certain fan forums, particularly on Facebook, where any such talk was banned for being negative and they only wanted to focus on the positive, i.e., "what's the first game you're going to play when you get it?" type of thing. Ultimately, that was fruitless and the one fan forum I'm referencing in particular had to be closed (temporarily or not; presumably it won't open again until the victorious release). Some people just don't like confrontation or what they perceive to be negative, even if it's not intended as such and is only for the purposes of analysis/discussion. That's surprising for adults on one level, but I guess not surprising considering how some people/things are.

Personally, I never had high expectations for the Amico. I was however intrigued enough by the modest hardware, controller gimmicks, and overall business plan to order said founder's edition and (empty) boxed games. I was planning on enjoying it on those merits and had no expectations beyond that (I never bought into the idea that there's this huge untapped market of casuals who don't normally buy consoles but would buy this--those people can enjoy their phones and tablets just fine). From the business side, I always felt they had a practical approach to reaching a break even point, and, at least based on the figures they gave, seemed modest and easily achievable. It was often compared to the VCS (I did it myself when it was brought up by others), and certainly up to a point they were doing everything right and Atari with the VCS was doing everything wrong. The VCS is still a dud, but credit where credit is due, they actually got the thing out and it does have its faithful supporters. That too has no path forward that I can see, but it's out in stores and people can buy it and use it. It remains to be seen if the Amico will even reach the "it's in at least the founder's editions hands" before the company fully goes kaput.

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, orange808 said:

Thanks for clearing that up. I admit only a passing general curiosity about the platform, so there's a lot of things I won't understand. My apologies for sounding over critical, but I believe anyone making a game (that isn't moonlighting) requires gambling valuable time and money, so it requires some critical analysis. 

 

Personally, I would still worry about a path to profitability without some form of upselling, but that's all above my pay grade. And, everything may be fluid. Things change.

 

Best of luck to the company. 

The business model for $10 games depends on an install base of hundreds of thousands of units.  If it's just a niche platform, it doesn't work. Obviously it's risky for independent developers, so Intellivision Entertainment has taken that risk away by paying them in advance of sales.  You can see and hear these independent developers speak about the system.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BluBQ2ANzdI

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NoQ7yt5NKLs

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IoReoLLJ-18

[SteveTheColecoDude]

1 hour ago, youxia said:

Threads/comments like these are why reddit always was, and most likely will be, the cesspool of the internet. These people are no different from the more obsessed Amico cultists they are trying to mock, and their viciousness gives credence to at least some of Tallarico's harrassment claims (not that it excuses him trying to turn it into a martyrdom narrative and use against any "normal" critic though).

 

While that thread may not exactly be an example of the friendliest comments you'll ever see, it's still nowhere near the level of the behavior of the hardcore Amico fans who have threatened/fantasized about being violent to and attacking critics, mocked their health issues, bullied women live on stream, mocked their gender/sexuality, doxxed children, made fun of their financial situation and more.

 

In the Amico thread on this very website alone you had far worse stuff being said by both the fans and Tommy himself. There were comments about how people deserve to have their teeth kicked out, and let's not forget that one of that threads favorite past times was mocking Pat and Ian's looks and much worse... making fun of Ian's health issues. Again, often coming from Tommy himself. Also, in that thread Tommy accused one of the most vocal Amico critics of sexual assault in response to him being an Amico critic.

 

Sorry, you can say that comments calling mr_me brainwashed/deluded isn't very nice, but to try and "both sides" it and equate it to the Amico "cultists" behavior is just wrong.

Edited April 12, 2022 by SteveTheColecoDude

[MrBeefy]

4 hours ago, digdugnate said:

Ok, so that's what I was thinking- spoken interview.  Gotcha.  Thanks!

I'm still waiting for the AtariAge exclusive SNAFOO pack in as promised by the company. You can trust everything they say because they dislike MISINFORMATION.

 

[+Lathe26]

8 hours ago, youxia said:

Behold, the wrath of Wayback Machine....

Holy heck, all 1211 pages of the "Intellivision Amico - Tommy Tallarico introduction + Q&A" is there.
 

[youxia]

37 minutes ago, SteveTheColecoDude said:

Sorry, you can say that comments calling mr_me brainwashed/deluded isn't very nice, but to try and "both sides" it and equate it to the Amico "cultists" behavior is just wrong.

The  whitewashing "but oh, they are much worse" defence is as redundant here as it is in any other walk of life. I've been around long enough to know that it never works like that, withe one side being purely the righteous one and the other mean and vile, so, yeah - not interested.

 

Also, speaking of sides, spare me that trendy "bothsideism" trope because I'm not on either of these extremist sides, I'm calling out both of them for their BS. And yes, they are very much comparable. People who proudly call themselves "detectives", start dedicated websites and utube channels where they obsessively pore over every utterance and movement of their Arch Enemy (sum guy trying to launch a lame console, no less), often in quite an obnoxious fashion, are as much deserving of derision as their counterparts on the other side.

[+Lathe26]

1 hour ago, SteveTheColecoDude said:

 

While that thread may not exactly be an example of the friendliest comments you'll ever see, it's still nowhere near the level of the behavior of the hardcore Amico fans who have threatened/fantasized about being violent to and attacking critics, mocked their health issues, bullied women live on stream, mocked their gender/sexuality, doxxed children, made fun of their financial situation and more.

 

In the Amico thread on this very website alone you had far worse stuff being said by both the fans and Tommy himself. There were comments about how people deserve to have their teeth kicked out, and let's not forget that one of that threads favorite past times was mocking Pat and Ian's looks and much worse... making fun of Ian's health issues. Again, often coming from Tommy himself. Also, in that thread Tommy accused one of the most vocal Amico critics of sexual assault in response to him being an Amico critic.

 

Sorry, you can say that comments calling mr_me brainwashed/deluded isn't very nice, but to try and "both sides" it and equate it to the Amico "cultists" behavior is just wrong.

Everything you mention that some Amico fans have done, some Amico haters have done as well.  Everything.  Any attempt sweep either side's extremist behavior under the rug is just wrong.

[mr_me]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

I'm still waiting for the AtariAge exclusive SNAFOO pack in as promised by the company. You can trust everything they say because they dislike MISINFORMATION.

 

Snafoo was a pack-in at one time but that was a change made early-on.  They've made several changes during the development of the system.  Where was it promised that Snafoo would be a pack-in?