atarilux Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 While initially I will probably write some software and give it away, is there really a market for making and selling games for these older platforms? I notice a few people trying it online, in particular the 8-bit Guy. Also I notice most games for these older platforms is being given away for free, which of course is nice. I would not be looking to make a living from it, but making some money from having fun is a good thing. Also, I used to work in the software industry, so I'd quite enjoy such a challenge. It's just a thought, so feel free to say it is dumb. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Take a look in our store, maybe that'll give you an idea. https://atariage.com/store/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thanatos Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Have you not noticed the AtariAge store? Edit... Oh come on, CPUWiz... You probably had me beat by mere seconds. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Oh yeah, just have a look around the home-brew and programming threads here in every category. Or the AtariAge Store for examples. Lots of people making lots of games for nearly every game and computer system out there. The Intellivision home-brew scene has been on fire ever since IntyBASIC came about. Same with the ColecoVision. And there's been a market for 2600 home-brews since the 90's. The Atari 7800 platform for some time now too. Consumers (especially those that subscribe to game forums) are always on the lookout for new and high quality games. -edit- Saw your two notifications before I hit send. Slow on the draw 'cause my post was longer and included the ever important embedded hyperlink, which took a few more seconds. ? 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 To give another example of how popular new games for old systems are, here's another great site that's a little more computer centric. Lots of activity in the C64, Spectrum, Amiga and Atari ST realms: http://www.indieretronews.com 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) Question is making a living off this stuff? Is possible? Mis-read the OP post. Sure you can make some side & fun money. And there is indeed a market. A small one, but it's been around for a long while now. Edited March 26, 2022 by Keatah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoGamer Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, atarilux said: While initially I will probably write some software and give it away, is there really a market for making and selling games for these older platforms? I notice a few people trying it online, in particular the 8-bit Guy. Also I notice most games for these older platforms is being given away for free, which of course is nice. I would not be looking to make a living from it, but making some money from having fun is a good thing. Also, I used to work in the software industry, so I'd quite enjoy such a challenge. It's just a thought, so feel free to say it is dumb. Welcome to AtariAge! As the link @CPUWIZ provided you will show, there’s a vibrant market for developing and selling older /new games on retro platforms. If @Albert (the owner of this board and the Atariage store) likes your game, he will sell it for you in his store. I am not familiar with the logistics of doing this personally (what percentage you will receive on the games that sell), but I have heard very good things about selling your game this way. In either case, I look forward to seeing what you develop! Edited March 26, 2022 by ColecoGamer 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockduck Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Depends on what size market you need to make it work, there's definitely a market where you can sell dozens, hundreds, maybe even a couple thousand, copies, but not one where you are likely to sell a lot more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 The market size varies by platform. "A couple thousand copies" is pretty much the extreme high end of what is possible (a high profile release for a popular system by superstar developers). A physical release is more likely to top out in the hundreds. A digital release might do better since the price point could be lower and there would be a larger potential audience (more people have access to emulators than original hardware). You won't make a living off of it, but you can make some extra money to help fund your retro hobby. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Everyone will try a free game. Not everyone will pay for original games. Each console and classic computer has its own threshold for trying new things and new packaging. So, diversify and find your audience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarilux Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 On 3/25/2022 at 9:55 PM, thanatos said: Have you not noticed the AtariAge store? Edit... Oh come on, CPUWiz... You probably had me beat by mere seconds. Yes, I had seen the Atari Age store, but that is one venue for sales... Having worked in software marketing before, I like to do some homework and get real feeling on the ground before diving in. I did a quick root around on Atari Age a few months back, there is certain a scene, and perhaps a growing on. But Atari Age is but one place, it's also worth seeing if there are other avenues. For example, the 8-Bit guy seems to have gone it alone, but mainly for Commodore centric releases. I would of course be very happy if my programme was good enough to be on Atari Age, or indeed any other reseller/distributor. I am currently a long way, away from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarilux Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, KaeruYojimbo said: The market size varies by platform. "A couple thousand copies" is pretty much the extreme high end of what is possible (a high profile release for a popular system by superstar developers). A physical release is more likely to top out in the hundreds. A digital release would probably do better since the price point could be lower and there would be a larger potential audience (more people have access to emulators than original hardware). You won't make a living off of it, but you can make some extra money to help fund your retro hobby. The key point is the last statement, a sideline to pay for a hobby. With the emphasis on quality and fun, rather than making mega bucks. I already have a real job, in a slightly more state-of-the-art bit of IT R&D. So some opinions... 7800 or XL first? Also, thanks @save2600 for that link, there are some very impressive things on there. Also, I saw some of the ABBUC demos/games, etc. They were also extremely impressive. Way beyond anything I remember I had on my 800XL (which I gave up on 93). Edited March 28, 2022 by atarilux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 22 hours ago, atarilux said: The key point is the last statement, a sideline to pay for a hobby. With the emphasis on quality and fun, rather than making mega bucks. If you go in with that attitude, you'll be fine. There are people who have come here expecting to quit their day job with the money made from developing one homebrew game and left extremely disappointed after learning the truth. The little money I've made selling 2600 games has gone right back to the AtariAge store, but I had fun making them and got to meet some cool people I might not have otherwise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 37 minutes ago, atarilux said: So some opinions... 7800 or XL first? A8 platform already has a much larger library with a lot of variety. The 7800 has never been more popular, and with all the new developments for the system (flashcarts, new controllers, etc.), people are hungry for quality games to play. Better graphics capability than the A8, 2 button gameplay... just a more exciting system right now IMO. Older, obscure arcade ports suit the system well obviously... but how about the light gun? Now there's a peripheral that's criminally underused. Lots of great opportunities there I think. Would love to see some Duck Hunt, Hogans Alley, Chiller, Bank Panic, Gangster Town, Safari Hunt, Space Gun, Line Of Fire, Beast Busters, Operation Wolf/Thunderbolt and T2 inspired games for the 7800. Besides the XE lightgun, Best Electronics has a version and people convert their SMS lightguns for Atari compatibility. So, can't exactly say that it's a rare peripheral anymore or that not many people have them. Joystick/joypad/trakball controller always welcome as an alternative anyway. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarilux Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, KaeruYojimbo said: That's the right attitude to have. There are people who have come here expecting to quit their day job with the money made from developing one homebrew game and left extremely disappointed after learning the truth. The little money I've made selling 2600 games has gone right back to the AtariAge store, but I had fun making them and got to meet some cool people I might not have otherwise. Yes, for me it is about doing something fun. That usually gets better results anyway. The community side is also a key part, that adds so much fun to the situation as well. 20 minutes ago, save2600 said: A8 platform already has a much larger library with a lot of variety. The 7800 has never been more popular, and with all the new developments for the system (flashcarts, new controllers, etc.), people are hungry for quality games to play. Better graphics capability than the A8, 2 button gameplay... just a more exciting system right now IMO. True, the A8 has a lot. As a starting point, I am toying with making an RPG, adventure or a strategy game. Those were the things I mainly experimented with writing when I was a kid, mainly on account of lack of access to any books on more advanced Atari graphics. There are lots of platforms out there, so I am not sure what I can add to that. That said, the first idea was for a slightly weird take on platformers. Edited March 28, 2022 by atarilux 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 It sounds like you're Atari oriented but willing to explore other platforms. In that case, you might consider these two options: https://lemonspawn.com/turbo-rascal-syntax-error-expected-but-begin/ https://8bit-unity.com/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 This is like asking... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) Obviously the AA Store is a huge sales point for Atari, there's quite a few for the C64 too, physical is popular (Psytronik, RGCD, BitMapSoft, Bobr Games, Protovision, Poly.Play to name a few). 19 hours ago, KaeruYojimbo said: The market size varies by platform. "A couple thousand copies" is pretty much the extreme high end of what is possible (a high profile release for a popular system by superstar developers). A physical release is more likely to top out in the hundreds. A digital release would probably do better since the price point could be lower and there would be a larger potential audience (more people have access to emulators than original hardware). You won't make a living off of it, but you can make some extra money to help fund your retro hobby. Sam's Journey for the C64 has sold over 3000 copies, of which about half are physical, but I agree, that's the extreme end of the market (it really is a mega game though). Vector Pliot and Vector Patrol for the Vectrex have both sold over 1000 copies. Edited March 29, 2022 by Mayhem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 It's the kind of thing you do for love, not money. I suspect with most homebrew releases you're lucky to see 200 copies. After the cost of materials I doubt you make more than a few bucks per copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris+++ Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 It's fantastic and nearly surreal that so many years after these consoles and computers were still being sold new, a huge group of creators has kept it all going very strongly. I'm constantly impressed by the widely varied skills that classic-game fans turn out to possess: not only the game designing and difficult coding, but also the mind-blowing visual artistry, packaging conceptualization and enterprising knowhow. It's all truly something to celebrate. OP: It's spelled "there." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarilux Posted March 29, 2022 Author Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, atarifan88 said: This is like asking... Lol, perhaps. But also it's about being realistic, there are buyers but the market size is important. Not to make big bucks but more to feel that the work was worth it. I would not want to spend 3 years on something for three people to want it:) An extreme example. Thanks to all the other replies, a few hundred copies would suffice for some effort, a few thousand great. I was also thinking of using things like Fujinet for connectivity, but that also restricts the market size a bit. Edited March 29, 2022 by atarilux 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 annnnnd the 1st game you will buy is Galagon!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarilux Posted April 19, 2022 Author Share Posted April 19, 2022 (edited) So my 7800 arrived, and it is boxed with games. Will try it out soon. Time to check out the 7800 developer forum to see what tools exist. Edited April 19, 2022 by atarilux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGHMW Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 ....and even though the 7800 (a.k.a. "Lil' Sexy") may be THE hottest Atari console on the planet right now, don't EVER count out the 5200, even though she (a.k.a. "Big Sexy") may have a small userbase (and I have been proud to own one since 1983) that same userbase is pretty hardcore and always looking for more content for her. She may be limited to 16K of RAM, the same as what ColecoVision has, but just like that competitor there is a huge lineup of titles even though most of them are improved versions (many of them exclusives to the 5200 at that time, like Centipede, Qix, and Dig Dug for instance) of the A8 titles there are those rare games you cannot get on and A8/XL/XE/XEGS, the entire Mean Hamster Software lineup is exclusive to the 5200, and many new titles are being worked on for the 5200 FIRST and then those are being ported over to the A8 afterwards, like @Ryan Witmer's Phaser Cat Games titles, many of them are TOP NOTCH, he's currently working on a 5200 version of Lock 'n' Chase known as Rob 'N' Banks in which looks awesome, and he also did Intellidiscs, in which is his take on the popular Intellivision classic Tron: Deadly Discs, and so much more. Yes the 7800 has great potential, but the 8-bit/5200 can still hold her own, even with just 16K of RAM. Paul Lay @playsoft, Steven Tucker @classics, and @Wrathchild are considered heroes of ours here on AA, for all of the many hundreds of conversions they did of tons of A8 titles so we can play them too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarilux Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 After a battle with my modern TV and the PAL switch on the 7800 I finally got it working this evening. I have to say the games that came with it suck, with Asteroid being the best. I need to buy some titles, or get something to the emulator I have. Any tips on excellent new titles would be welcome, it would be good to see what I may be up against. I am "more experienced" on the 800XL as that is what I had years ago, and started playing around on it last year. I also need to get my head around the hardware on the 7800 which seems to be quite different from the A8 range. That said on the face of it, it is more powerful. So any recommendations on good overviews on the programming architecture would be welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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