Wipeout Source Released. Would be fun to have on the Jag.

[alucardX]

The source code for Wipeout is released:

 

https://illusion.64history.net/2022/wipeout-psx-windows-source

 

If someone could rewrite the code for the Jag then different assets could be applied and a wipeout like game could be made.

[Mikebloke]

Link seems broken but I had a Google. Looks like it's not easily workable for much as it's just been dumped without any support though I guess it could be learnt on by those with the knowledge. I noticed some people have been able to build the pc port and run something. 

 

It's probably genuinely easier to start from scratch, obviously they are hoping sony won't go after them for this, which to be fair, I imagine they won't. They aren't Nintendo and the wipeout IP has been in a coma since HD/Fury. 

 

I always wished there was some form of course editor, and some more open forms of race settings (love zone battle in the HD release but the max setting is capped incredibly low). Maybe some form of Wipeout Open Source will come out one day, but it won't be on the Jag.

 

Existing commercial games like checkered flag surely proves that a wipeout like game is possible on Jag, might be clunky but it could work. 

[+Stephen]

Hey - we just need VladR to come back and finish his masterpiece - he promised it was going to be as good as Wipeout and Need for Speed.  He was so close when he quit working on it too:

[+Stephen]

19 minutes ago, Mikebloke said:

Existing commercial games like checkered flag surely proves that a wipeout like game is possible on Jag

Wipeout with zero texture mapping and a peak framerate of 12FPS is not Wipeout I am sorry to say.

[JagChris]

I believe the track maps have been ripped and are available somewhere. I even seen a web browser fly through somewhere.

 

They would obviously need to be reduced or scaled back in complexity. I think there are programs that can automate this. The Jag would probably be able to handle that as non textured polygons without scaling back. 

 

At any rate it would need a 3D engine on the Jag something at the level of AtariOwls. 

[Mikebloke]

2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Wipeout with zero texture mapping and a peak framerate of 12FPS is not Wipeout I am sorry to say. 

I played Starwing in the 90s just fine, and I think 12FPS on that would have been a dream! It isn't much smoother on the Saturn when I played it recently! 

[JagChris]

Burger Becky says if the sources aren't buildable she'll fix that.

[JagChris]

I think of released sources codes the Jag would have a much better chance of pulling off Diablo really well.

[Lostdragon]

10 hours ago, Stephen said:

Wipeout with zero texture mapping and a peak framerate of 12FPS is not Wipeout I am sorry to say.

No texture mapping 

No cool lighting or transparency effects

Much lower framerate 

Questions over craft handling (some prefer the Saturn version to the PlayStation original). 

 

 

Your no longer in the realms of what made Wipeout so special at the time, you might as look at doing a Jaguar version of.. 

 

 

[Lostdragon]

10 hours ago, Mikebloke said:

 

 

It's probably genuinely easier to start from scratch, obviously they are hoping sony won't go after them for this, which to be fair, I imagine they won't. They aren't Nintendo and the wipeout IP has been in a coma since HD/Fury. 

 

I always wished there was some form of course editor, and some more open forms of race settings (love zone battle in the HD release but the max setting is capped incredibly low). 

I haven't seen the sales figures for the Wipeout collection, friend tells me it's a fantastic experience using PS VR, so I wonder if Wipeout won't return to PS 5 VR in some form in the future. 

[youxia]

I think it's a great idea. Can see it coming right after Mario 64, NeoGeo, etc...

[Lostdragon]

1 hour ago, youxia said:

I think it's a great idea. Can see it coming right after Mario 64, NeoGeo, etc...

Worse than Sega Saturn Quake as well? 

 

Road Rash? 

 

 

Someone should try and reach Scott Rogers and see if he still has code for the worse than 3DO version of Return Fire, he was working on. 

 

 

Mike Diskett might have his weekend attempt at Magic Carpet, plain polygons and by his own admission it looked poor, but if it's what people want.. 

 

 ?

 

All nonsense aside, we've been here before with the Road Rash which became Wipeout, thread and the results spoke for themselves. 

 

 

I'm sure the community would welcome anyone attempting to do a 3D futuristic racing game in the style of Powerdrome:Wipeout, but build it around the hardware and make it something unique to the system, instead of trying to replicate a title built for far more powerful hardware. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Lostdragon

[agradeneu]

2 hours ago, Lostdragon said:

No texture mapping 

No cool lighting or transparency effects

Much lower framerate 

Questions over craft handling (some prefer the Saturn version to the PlayStation original). 

 

 

Your no longer in the realms of what made Wipeout so special at the time, you might as look at doing a Jaguar version of.. 

 

 

Jaguar is not the ST. What's the point of such comparison?

 

 

 

[agradeneu]

12 hours ago, Stephen said:

Wipeout with zero texture mapping and a peak framerate of 12FPS is not Wipeout I am sorry to say.

25 FPS should be the reference --> Iron Soldier 1/2

[agradeneu]

20 hours ago, alucardX said:

The source code for Wipeout is released:

 

https://illusion.64history.net/2022/wipeout-psx-windows-source

 

If someone could rewrite the code for the Jag then different assets could be applied and a wipeout like game could be made.

Good to know, thank you. 

I mean, there has to be some goals for the next 10 years, so why not?

Eventually someone will come and give it a try.

 

 

 

 

[Lostdragon]

1 hour ago, agradeneu said:

Jaguar is not the ST. What's the point of such comparison?

 

 

25 FPS should be the reference --> Iron Soldier 1/2

If you can think of a title prior to Wipeout, that's been described as being a major influence on Wipeout (something the Wipeout designers deny) that isn't something as primitive in comparison as say F-Zero on the SNES, please include it. 

 

I'm making reference to the style of game, not the platform it's running on. 

 

To date the work seen regarding attempts to bring a Wipeout style title to the Jaguar, fall exceedingly short of what was achieved on the lowly ST. 

 

 

How about people aim sights a little lower, a little more realistic this time around, get a fun, playable 3D Future Race game (something ST Powerdrome was  not, due to the controls) and go from there. 

 

 

Why worry about trying to replicate what even the Saturn was doing? 

 

25 FPS is fantastic for a game like I. S where your piloting a walking artillery platform, but for a Zero - G racing title... ?

 

The F-Zero games sacrificed eye candy for speed, as they appreciated the importance of it in the genre. 

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of it, but i believe in order to reach the required 60 FPS on N64 F-Zero X

 

 

The team had to minimize background detail, texture detail, and polygon count on vehicles, use clever track design and fogging in places, to hide backgrounds when needed. 

 

 

 

I had all 3 PlayStation Wipeout games and they simply worked due to the combination of music, sense of speed, feel of the craft and glorious eye candy. 

 

Remove all that (good luck with the feel of the craft with the Jag pad) and youve strayed so far from what made Wipeout so special. 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Lostdragon

[agradeneu]

3 hours ago, Lostdragon said:

If you can think of a title prior to Wipeout, that's been described as being a major influence on Wipeout (something the Wipeout designers deny) that isn't something as primitive in comparison as say F-Zero on the SNES, please include it. 

 

I'm making reference to the style of game, not the platform it's running on. 

 

To date the work seen regarding attempts to bring a Wipeout style title to the Jaguar, fall exceedingly short of what was achieved on the lowly ST. 

 

 

How about people aim sights a little lower, a little more realistic this time around, get a fun, playable 3D Future Race game (something ST Powerdrome was  not, due to the controls) and go from there. 

 

 

Why worry about trying to replicate what even the Saturn was doing? 

 

25 FPS is fantastic for a game like I. S where your piloting a walking artillery platform, but for a Zero - G racing title... ?

 

The F-Zero games sacrificed eye candy for speed, as they appreciated the importance of it in the genre. 

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of it, but i believe in order to reach the required 60 FPS on N64 F-Zero X

 

 

The team had to minimize background detail, texture detail, and polygon count on vehicles, use clever track design and fogging in places, to hide backgrounds when needed. 

 

 

 

I had all 3 PlayStation Wipeout games and they simply worked due to the combination of music, sense of speed, feel of the craft and glorious eye candy. 

 

Remove all that (good luck with the feel of the craft with the Jag pad) and youve strayed so far from what made Wipeout so special. 

 

 

 

Wipeout on the Saturn is around 20-25 FPS. 60FPS was not realistic even for PS1.

 

Please don't show this Vlad stuff again, it's not representative. It's the lower end of what is possible, but you present it like was the best. 

 

For I.S., it's probably more demanding for 3D processing than a racing game with a rather narrow track and some other vehicles. 

 

And I was responding to the claim that a flat shaded 3D game would run 12 FPS at best, which is probably a tongue in cheek joke, but not really a valid point.

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by agradeneu

[sirlynxalot]

If you can think of a title prior to Wipeout, that's been described as being a major influence on Wipeout (something the Wipeout designers deny) that isn't something as primitive in comparison as say F-Zero on the SNES, please include it. 

 

I have to imagine that STUN Runner influenced Wipeout.  It's not the same gameplay, but there are so many other simularities in terms of how the tracks work, how they look, your car is a hover car that can shoot other vehicles, and it even looks like one of the pointy Wipeout ships. SR would have made an impression if anyone saw it in an arcade prior to 1994.

[Lostdragon]

1 hour ago, agradeneu said:

 

Wipeout on the Saturn is around 20-25 FPS. 60FPS was not realistic even for PS1.

 

Please don't show this Vlad stuff again, it's not representative. It's the lower end of what is possible, but you present it like was the best. 

 

For I.S., it's probably more demanding for 3D processing than a racing game with a rather narrow track and some other vehicles. 

 

And I was responding to the claim that a flat shaded 3D game would run 12 FPS at best, which is probably a tongue in cheek joke, but not really a valid point.

 

Saturn Wipeout has been described as chugging along at an average 20 FPS and is a Daytona-esq style experience next to the 30 FPS PlayStation version. 

 

Anything below 30 FPS, just doesn't feel like Wipeout,thats before the issue of analogue controls as well. 

 

Who mentioned 60 FPS on PlayStation? 

 

I stated the sacrifices that had to be made to get 60 FPS on F-Zero X on the N64. 

 

 

 

The PlayStation Wipeout team have detailed wanting more performance:

 

Dominic Mallinson "We wanted more draw distance and we wanted more tracks and we wanted 60Hz. Draw distance and 30Hz were mostly a limit of the hardware, powerful as it was. More tracks was a limit of our production tools at the time" 

 

Nobody is presenting Vald's work as the pinnacle of anything ng except absolute bullshit the community had to endure. 

 

He had many of us hooked on an impressive Road Rash style tech demo, then his Delusions Of Grandeur got the better of him, the community was promised something more impressive than Road Rash on the 3DO and that Sir, is what we got. 

 

 

It's a stark reminder of how innocent enough threads about how a similar game on a rival system could be approached, using the Jaguar hardware, can slide south before you know it. 

 

We don't need a repeat of it. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Lostdragon

[Lostdragon]

55 minutes ago, sirlynxalot said:

 

 

 

I have to imagine that STUN Runner influenced Wipeout.  It's not the same gameplay, but there are so many other simularities in terms of how the tracks work, how they look, your car is a hover car that can shoot other vehicles, and it even looks like one of the pointy Wipeout ships. SR would have made an impression if anyone saw it in an arcade prior to 1994.

I've heard the team credit Mario Kart, Ridge Racer and Matrix Marauders 

 

As 'official' influences, but totally agree with the Stun Runner comment ?

[alucardX]

I was really excited originally when I read about this source being available. Obviously that game was doing quite a bit on the PSX and I can't imagine the Jaguar ever matching what it is actually doing.

 

Some things I've thought about though, and maybe someone can give their opinion on some of it. One is that because this is a racing game and not a free-roaming title I thought the math to draw the geometry might be a little easier than the math for a game such as I-War or Hoverstrike. Are there 3D tricks to allow some of this to be pre-calculated and take some of the calculation work out of it?

 

If any of it could be drawn reasonably well for this type of racing game I wouldn't ever anticipate the same kind of lighting effects to be easily or efficiently created on the Jaguar. Maybe a game in this vein that has a Tempest 2000 look and feel with similar particle effects rather than lighting?

 

On final thought, maybe we'll just recreate the Sonic ass game from the Genesis/MegaDrive Sonic bonus stages in 24-bit color and call it a day.

[SlidellMan]

I can see the original Wipeout working on the DS, 3DS/2DS, Wii, Wii U, and a PPC/3D accelerated Amiga. However, I doubt it would work on the Jaguar. You would have better luck porting Aqua Jack or Night Striker.

[alucardX]

3 hours ago, alucardX said:

I was really excited originally when I read about this source being available. Obviously that game was doing quite a bit on the PSX and I can't imagine the Jaguar ever matching what it is actually doing.

 

Some things I've thought about though, and maybe someone can give their opinion on some of it. One is that because this is a racing game and not a free-roaming title I thought the math to draw the geometry might be a little easier than the math for a game such as I-War or Hoverstrike. Are there 3D tricks to allow some of this to be pre-calculated and take some of the calculation work out of it?

 

If any of it could be drawn reasonably well for this type of racing game I wouldn't ever anticipate the same kind of lighting effects to be easily or efficiently created on the Jaguar. Maybe a game in this vein that has a Tempest 2000 look and feel with similar particle effects rather than lighting?

 

On final thought, maybe we'll just recreate the Sonic ass game from the Genesis/MegaDrive Sonic bonus stages in 24-bit color and call it a day.

I think you're right about RAM upgrades, I don't remember hearing anything about the system having that type of upgrade capability.

 

In terms of the system "pushing sprites", it really wasn't pushing sprites in the traditional sense. Not like the Saturn, Jag, SNES and so on.

[Punisher5.0]

Glitch in the matrix

[agradeneu]

18 hours ago, sirlynxalot said:

 

 

 

I have to imagine that STUN Runner influenced Wipeout.  It's not the same gameplay, but there are so many other simularities in terms of how the tracks work, how they look, your car is a hover car that can shoot other vehicles, and it even looks like one of the pointy Wipeout ships. SR would have made an impression if anyone saw it in an arcade prior to 1994.

I think F Zero and Mario Kart