AppleTalk on the IIgs and C Plus

[KG7PFS]

I know the Apple IIgs supports AppleTalk, but does the IIc Plus? Can I network the IIgs and C Plus using AppleTalk, and share files, etc.? How does it work?

[Iamgroot]

AFAIK, AppleTalk was incomplete on the IIc Plus.  You could AppleTalk to a printer, but not to another computer.

[KG7PFS]

Is the problem in hardware or software? Is there a way to fix it?

 

[Iamgroot]

Hardware wise, the IIc+ has the necessary send and receive lines.

 

A few problems come to mind that make it a real waste of resources.

 

If you already have a IIGS, then you are limiting it by using it as a server just to transfer files to your IIc+.

You need two computers running instead of one.

You need the extra 1 Mb RAM that did not come included in a IIc+ or you can constantly delete the old files from your floppies.  But if you are using floppies anyways, just easier and faster to copy from the floppy attached to a IIGS.

Networking to a IIGS is more complicated than networking used in the IIe's in a classroom setting, so the software will be much larger.

Memory may have to be freed up from the larger AppleTalk software in memory just to run the program just transferred.

The transfer speed is slower than having a drive connected.

Possible high risk of data transfer errors, mostly on the receive side.

 

Other than being a cool factor, it is not really feasible.  I thought the same way at one time until I understood all that is involved.  AppleTalking to a printer is really all that makes sense, which I think Apple came to the same conclusion and only included support up to that means.

[Baldrick]

That said, if you want to do file sharing on a IIGS it's pretty easy.  That is, if you use the Uthernet II card...

In my own system I use the Uthernet II card to connect to remote file servers as well as a networked laser printer in my home.  Printing over ethernet requires AppleTalk to be turned on (and the subsequent loss of slot 7 on the ROM 01 IIGS)

 

[Iamgroot]

Also forgot to mention.  Although AppleTalk may be a lost cause for the IIc+, look into importing .wav files through the microphone jack.  Some have had success transferring files that way.

[KG7PFS]

On 4/4/2022 at 10:43 PM, Iamgroot said:

If you already have a IIGS, then you are limiting it by using it as a server just to transfer files to your IIc+.

It won't be used for that all the time.

On 4/4/2022 at 10:43 PM, Iamgroot said:

You need two computers running instead of one.

That's the idea.

On 4/4/2022 at 10:43 PM, Iamgroot said:

You need the extra 1 Mb RAM that did not come included in a IIc+ or you can constantly delete the old files from your floppies.

I have that.

On 4/4/2022 at 10:43 PM, Iamgroot said:

But if you are using floppies anyways, just easier and faster to copy from the floppy attached to a IIGS.

Sometimes a direct connection is more convinient. Or just more fun.

On 4/5/2022 at 1:20 PM, Iamgroot said:

Although AppleTalk may be a lost cause for the IIc+, look into importing .wav files through the microphone jack.

There is no microphone jack.

 

One way or another, I will connect the IIc Plus to the IIgs for file transfer. It seems to me that since the printer will also be on the network, using AppleTalk instead of xmodem will at least save a serial port.

Edited April 7, 2022 by KG7PFS

[Iamgroot]

21 hours ago, KG7PFS said:

One way or another, I will connect the IIc Plus to the IIgs for file transfer. It seems to me that since the printer will also be on the network, using AppleTalk instead of xmodem will at least save a serial port.

That's the key to it getting done.  One has to be motivated enough to not give up.  If it helps, I'm routing for you.  :)

[KG7PFS]

On 4/4/2022 at 10:43 PM, Iamgroot said:

Networking to a IIGS is more complicated than networking used in the IIe's in a classroom setting,

So the IIe can network. What does the e have that the c+ doesn't? They're compatible enough that it seems like if an e can network, a c+ should be able to.

[The Usotsuki]

7 physical card slots.

[Baldrick]

On 4/5/2022 at 5:20 PM, Iamgroot said:

Also forgot to mention.  Although AppleTalk may be a lost cause for the IIc+, look into importing .wav files through the microphone jack.  Some have had success transferring files that way.

There's no microphone jack (and no cassette ports) in a IIc+.  And the memory addresses for the non existent cassette ports have been co-opted for other purposes.

[SmileyDude]

On 6/21/2022 at 4:52 PM, Baldrick said:

There's no microphone jack (and no cassette ports) in a IIc+.  And the memory addresses for the non existent cassette ports have been co-opted for other purposes.

ADTPro uses the serial ports on the IIc instead of the cassette ports for this reason.  I've yet to try to bootstrap a IIc (mine is not working, sadly), but I might get around to fixing it someday.  

 

Regarding the original question, was there any solution for file sharing over AppleTalk on the IIc? I remember my high school lab having a mixed IIe/IIgs/Mac environment setup where all of the Apple IIs could boot up over the network (served from a single SE/30 in the back of the lab) without needing a floppy disk.  Is this just not possible on the IIc or IIc+?  If it's just the lack of support in the ROM, it seems like it would be possible to make a custom ROM that would have the necessary support in it. 

[KG7PFS]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:33 AM, SmileyDude said:

 If it's just the lack of support in the ROM, it seems like it would be possible to make a custom ROM that would have the necessary support in it. 

Or load the drivers from a disk.

[micheledipaola]

On 7/2/2022 at 6:33 PM, SmileyDude said:

ADTPro uses the serial ports on the IIc instead of the cassette ports for this reason.  I've yet to try to bootstrap a IIc (mine is not working, sadly), but I might get around to fixing it someday.  

 

Regarding the original question, was there any solution for file sharing over AppleTalk on the IIc? I remember my high school lab having a mixed IIe/IIgs/Mac environment setup where all of the Apple IIs could boot up over the network (served from a single SE/30 in the back of the lab) without needing a floppy disk.  Is this just not possible on the IIc or IIc+?  If it's just the lack of support in the ROM, it seems like it would be possible to make a custom ROM that would have the necessary support in it. 

IIc custom roms are out there, in many different fashions, so this could be interesting. 
IIe with extra memory had the Workstation card which basically is an AppleTalk card, and probably the ones in your school lab were connected on those.

[AndyW265]

Raspple Pi?

 

I think Apple Inc.’s idea was to use Mac as server for client IIGS and IIC/IIE (w/workstation card).

 

Cheers,

Andy