How to install rEFInd for the VCS permanently

[.nIk0.]

rEFInd_Atari_VCS.pdf

[zzip]

Thanks for the guide!  

 

I have reFind on a USB key, and Grub on another USB key

 

I would love to put reFind permenantly on the main disk and not worry about USB keys, but worry that would interfere with AtariOS operations.    Also is there a chance they release a BIOS update that re-enables Secure Boot in the future?

[Linux_Lover]

On 4/4/2022 at 11:54 AM, .nIk0. said:

rEFInd_Atari_VCS.pdf 385.02 kB · 2 downloads

I've noticed 2 links of vcs themes don't work in US supposedly (I don't have vpn to test if that works but I imagine it would).  The links in the pdf in question are https://uptobox.com/dyg57srg80u2?aff_id=10083422

and https://uptobox.com/dyg57srg80u2?aff_id=10083422  .  Thank you for the doc as I'll try out the rest asap.  Ah nevermind, I noticed secure boot has to be enabled and my VCS is rejecting the password and I have a service ticket pending in regards to this.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Linux_Lover

[.nIk0.]

2 hours ago, Linux_Lover said:

I've noticed 2 links of vcs themes don't work in US supposedly (I don't have vpn to test if that works but I imagine it would).  The links in the pdf in question are https://uptobox.com/dyg57srg80u2?aff_id=10083422

and https://uptobox.com/dyg57srg80u2?aff_id=10083422  .  Thank you for the doc as I'll try out the rest asap.  Ah nevermind, I noticed secure boot has to be enabled and my VCS is rejecting the password and I have a service ticket pending in regards to this.

You can DL VCS Themes, with link to video for the first method. https://tinyurl.com/diskrefindvcs 
No, you do DISABLE Secure boot.
Do not try to perform these operations on your VCS without having disable the option « Enforce secure boot » into BIOS. You could irreversibly damage your VCS.

[Linux_Lover]

23 minutes ago, .nIk0. said:

You can DL VCS Themes, with link to video for the first method. https://tinyurl.com/diskrefindvcs 
No, you do DISABLE Secure boot.
Do not try to perform these operations on your VCS without having disable the option « Enforce secure boot » into BIOS. You could irreversibly damage your VCS.

Sorry, I made a typo.  I meant secure boot has to be disabled and that is currently impossible for me since the password is not working and I have notified Atari about it and hopefully they will assist me in resolving that.  I will try to amend my prior post now.  Ok, I couldn't figure out how to edit it as I didn't see an edit option like I am using now for this msg.  Thanks for your response.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Linux_Lover

[zzip]

7 hours ago, Linux_Lover said:

I've noticed 2 links of vcs themes don't work in US supposedly (I don't have vpn to test if that works but I imagine it would).  The links in the pdf in question are https://uptobox.com/dyg57srg80u2?aff_id=10083422

and https://uptobox.com/dyg57srg80u2?aff_id=10083422  .  Thank you for the doc as I'll try out the rest asap.  Ah nevermind, I noticed secure boot has to be enabled and my VCS is rejecting the password and I have a service ticket pending in regards to this.

If the BIOS password isn't working,  you might have to downgrade your BIOS to a particular version to get the proper password set.    Atari will update it to the newest version but the password will stay.   There are some instructions in other threads on this board on how to do this

[Linux_Lover]

5 hours ago, zzip said:

If the BIOS password isn't working,  you might have to downgrade your BIOS to a particular version to get the proper password set.    Atari will update it to the newest version but the password will stay.   There are some instructions in other threads on this board on how to do this

If it involves opening the unit, I don't want to do that b/c the black screens that I often get when trying to access the uefi made me setup a service ticket and I won't open the unit unless Atari indicates such via their troubleshooting. 

[zzip]

1 hour ago, Linux_Lover said:

If it involves opening the unit, I don't want to do that b/c the black screens that I often get when trying to access the uefi made me setup a service ticket and I won't open the unit unless Atari indicates such via their troubleshooting. 

I don't think it requires opening,  I think you just need a USB flash drive

[Linux_Lover]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

I don't think it requires opening,  I think you just need a USB flash drive

Atari had me reflash the device via some utility they had me download, but it didn't appear to downgrade the uefi/bios at all.  I will look for the thread to see how involved it is.  Thanks for the info.

[zzip]

15 hours ago, Linux_Lover said:

Atari had me reflash the device via some utility they had me download, but it didn't appear to downgrade the uefi/bios at all.  I will look for the thread to see how involved it is.  Thanks for the info.

If Atari has a better solution to fixing the password, use that.    Also if it worked for you, do you mind posting it?   We get this password question a lot.

  

The technique here was something someone here figured out

[Linux_Lover]

6 hours ago, zzip said:

If Atari has a better solution to fixing the password, use that.    Also if it worked for you, do you mind posting it?   We get this password question a lot.

  

The technique here was something someone here figured out

I e-mailed asking for another tech support rep since the last one was unhelpful.  The response I got was from another rep who asked same questions (bios version; OS build#, etc), to which I pasted my prior response and let them know this password problem is bigger than they'd like to admit and that they should come here to AA forum or other places online to see many users are in the same boat regarding the password not working.  I told her I have 16 years experience building/repairing pc's and worked in tech support in the past.  Most of the tech support reps are clueless unfortunately and are not trained well, but I have to go thru their steps to appease them and hopefully they will consider: A.) a UEFI update to remove/bypass need for Secure Boot password (unlikely I'd bet for a few reasons); B.) Replacing my unit, which I don't look forward to as I believe I have to pay for shipping iirc their EULA I skimmed through recently.  The Secure Boot implementation of the VCS is its bane and prevents many bootable OS and USB flash drive tools/software from working.  I've never come across such a difficult piece of hardware and I've dealt w/a really bad Lenovo laptop that had a really locked Secure Boot, but I was finally able to figure it out and probably related to my lack of experience w/Secure Boot at the time.  Perhaps I should create a post asking those that are still having password problems to chime in, if there's not already an existing (recent) thread for this and then emailing it to Atari so they can see.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Linux_Lover

[+Gemintronic]

I have the retail version that has the password inaccessible.  The solution was to use whatever recovery link that Atari provides to restore/update the BIOs.  So, I don't think it needs to be downgraded per se but re-flashed with the recovery link BIOs (which has "Celebrate" password.)

 

As for touching the primary HDD with our own bootstrap.. well. Atari is going to ignore support for that.  I'd count on updates intentionally borking user changes to the bootloader.

[zzip]

11 minutes ago, Linux_Lover said:

I e-mailed asking for another tech support rep since the last one was unhelpful.  The response I got was from another rep who asked same questions (bios version; OS build#, etc), to which I pasted my prior response and let them know this password problem is bigger than they'd like to admit and that they should come here to AA forum or other places online to see many users are in the same boat regarding the password not working.  I told her I have 16 years experience building/repairing pc's and worked in tech support in the past.  Most of the tech support reps are clueless unfortunately and are not trained well, but I have to go thru their steps to appease them and hopefully they will consider: A.) a UEFI update to remove/bypass need for Secure Boot password (unlikely I'd bet for a few reasons); B.) Replacing my unit, which I don't look forward to as I believe I have to pay for shipping iirc their EULA I skimmed through recently.  The Secure Boot implementation of the VCS is its bane and prevents many bootable OS and USB flash drive tools/software from working.  I've never come across such a difficult piece of hardware and I've dealt w/a really bad Lenovo laptop that had a really locked Secure Boot, but I was finally able to figure it out and probably related to my lack of experience w/Secure Boot at the time.  Perhaps I should create a post asking those that are still having password problems to chime in, if there's not already an existing (recent) thread for this and then emailing it to Atari so they can see.

It is typical at most places that when you contact support you will first talk to the lowest-paid front line person who just follows a script.   It's really annoying when you are a techie,  but from a company's perspective 90% of the support requests they get are for simple known problems that can be resolved by those people.

 

I do think Atari people come here and other forums.    Because when I read some of the interviews with Atari execs, they seemed to have their finger on what the community is saying.    I'm sure they know about the password problem because you aren't the first to come here and also contact support about it.

 

I agree for a device that advertises that it wants its users to use PC mode,  its secure boot is a problem.   I get they probably have to enable it for legal or liability reasons.

 

Have you checked out this thread?   It has instructions that might help reset the password via recovery media.   See page 13 and the posts from Tidus79001

also have you only tried the "Atari Celebrates 50" password or have you tried the two older ones as well?

     I believe it 

[.nIk0.]

Atari VCS BIOS password reset
The BIOS password on the retail consoles requires flashing the BIOS back to 1.0.21 to set it to the “Celerbrate” password that it is out in the wild.
The guide and recovery image can be found at the following link. For the most part the guide is not very useful other than to tell you how to create the recovery flash drive, so I would refer to for those steps.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pgC39vlSaK-8am4cbGKLgQrnKILRU1iK?usp=sharing

There are steps you have to do that aren't in the guide, and you will need a keyboard connected to your Atari VCS to complete these steps. If you don't have a keyboard it will only flash the Atari OS not resolve the issue.
 With the power off, plug in the USB drive and connect a keyboard to your Atari VCS
You need to use the keyboard and select the flash BIOS option from the menu that appears on the screen when you power on your Atari VCS with the Atari OS Recovery USB drive the you created from the downloaded image (if you don't select anything then it will just flash the Atari OS). From the menu select "BIOS Upgrade & Reset Settings (VCS21)" and press the Enter key using the keyboard that you have connected to your Atari VCS. This process will downgrade the BIOS from 1.0.23 to 1.0.21 (the BIOS will automatically get updated again to 1.0.23 the next the the Atari VCS boot into the Atari OS).
You shouldn't need to reimage the Atari OS, but I did that as my first step before the BIOS. If you find just flashing the BIOS doesn't work then reimage the Atari OS, power off & then on again and flash the Atari VCS BIOS before the system boots into the Atari OS. After then boot into the Atari OS and let the system update the BIOS. Be patient as this might take 15-20 minutes to complete.
Once done you should be able to access the BIOS using the Atari Celebrate password.

Thanks to "xyz79001"
 

Atari_VCS_BIOS_password_reset__recommeded_settings.pdf

[Smackenroll]

First off, thanks so much for the guide.  I'm sure it was a lot of work and is certainly appreciated.  Second, is there a way to do this using a Windows machine?  I know nothing about Linux and do not have a system to use?  I would just like to be able to create a way to choose whether to boot to the VCS or Windows (installed in an internal SSD MD drive).  Unfortunately the "esc" key method doesn't really work for me because I run the VCS through my A/V receiver and it just doesn't detect the boot screen so I would have to learn to do the process blind and hope I hit the right combination of buttons..  

 

Thanks again!  Brad

[zzip]

1 hour ago, Smackenroll said:

First off, thanks so much for the guide.  I'm sure it was a lot of work and is certainly appreciated.  Second, is there a way to do this using a Windows machine?  I know nothing about Linux and do not have a system to use?  I would just like to be able to create a way to choose whether to boot to the VCS or Windows (installed in an internal SSD MD drive).  Unfortunately the "esc" key method doesn't really work for me because I run the VCS through my A/V receiver and it just doesn't detect the boot screen so I would have to learn to do the process blind and hope I hit the right combination of buttons..  

 

Thanks again!  Brad

The first page of the guide tells you how to create the recovery USB drive from Windows

 

For selecting between VCS and Windows at boot time, I'd suggest looking at the reFind boot manager,  it should do exactly what you want.   There was a recent topic posted here on how to set that up.

[Linux_Lover]

On 4/7/2022 at 5:30 PM, zzip said:

It is typical at most places that when you contact support you will first talk to the lowest-paid front line person who just follows a script.   It's really annoying when you are a techie,  but from a company's perspective 90% of the support requests they get are for simple known problems that can be resolved by those people.

 

I do think Atari people come here and other forums.    Because when I read some of the interviews with Atari execs, they seemed to have their finger on what the community is saying.    I'm sure they know about the password problem because you aren't the first to come here and also contact support about it.

 

I agree for a device that advertises that it wants its users to use PC mode,  its secure boot is a problem.   I get they probably have to enable it for legal or liability reasons.

 

Have you checked out this thread?   It has instructions that might help reset the password via recovery media.   See page 13 and the posts from Tidus79001

also have you only tried the "Atari Celebrates 50" password or have you tried the two older ones as well?

     I believe it 

I tried the steps outlined by Tidus79001 afaict. Downloaded the file and followed the instructions on the doc that mentioned bios.  Extracted the image to use as iso and loaded it via etcher to a flash drive.  Plugged into VCS rear USB port.  It immediately began a bios fw downgrade afaict, indicating "Installing Atari OS version 20211014.083614.production", then "Flashing succeeded!  Please remove the USB key and power-cycle the device".  I rebooted into the bios, but neither password worked (Atar!C3l3br8te$50Ye4r$) (Piano18482).  I didn't get 3 options like I did via the flasher Atari had me try after initial emails ("Flash atari os to emmc....; bios upgrade & reset settings vcs23; reboot into firmware interface").  Was there a third password or any other steps?  Tried via a wired keyboard and via software keyboard in the bios.  I have not gotten back into Atari OS since to prevent updates that might be automatic via wifi just in case they might be.  I will not bother the forum further on this as I will take it up w/someone higher in Atari if I have exhausted all I can do via your recommendations.  This is way beyond what reasonable troubleshooting should be for basic features that were promised.  I may not be able to reply for a few days but will try.  Thank you for your help and to anyone else.

[MikeA]

Install rEFInd boot manager permanently on SSD (and also dual boot Atari OS and Batocera)

I successfully installed rEFInd permanently on SSD.  I also dual boot Atari OS and Batocera as well as Linux Mint on the SSD.  All of this works without permanently plugging in a USB flash stick and without installing anything on the eMMC.

The guide in OP’s post does not contemplate installing rEFInd to the SSD, perhaps because Atari only recently updated the bios to allow you to boot from SSD before the eMMC.  Also the guide to dual booting Batocera and Linux on the Batocera wiki did not work for me on the VCS.  So, I made this guide.

Final setup:  Atari OS on eMMC, Batocera and Linux Mint on SSD, with rEFInd boot manager installed on SSD to boot into the OS of your choice.

1.       Disable Secure Boot if not already done and make sure your Atari OS firmware is up to date.  If you cannot access bios to disable secure boot, you must do so as follows:

a.       Downgrade VCS firmware using the Atari recovery image that’s floating around here.  Image it to USB flash drive using a tool like Balena Etcher on Windows 10.  Insert Atari USB stick in rear Atari VCS USB port and turn on VCS.  Select the 2^nd option to flash bios.  Allow it to flash BIOS and reboot.  After reboot, select option 1 to flash Atari OS.  After this process is complete, remove Atari USB stick and turn on VCS while holding down Escape.  Enter the bios and go to Secure Boot Options.  Password for bios is now Atar!C3l3br8te$50Ye4r$ .  Disable secure boot.  Exit bios and boot into Atari OS.  Connect to internet and allow Atari OS to update to most current version.  Restart Atari VCS while holding Escape to enter the bios.

2.       Change Atari VCS bios to allow booting from SSD before eMMC as follows:

a.       Enter Bios by holding down Escape as turning on VCS. Go to Setup Utility, choose “Boot” section at top of screen, and then go to option “Set Boot Order” and change to option (b) USB à SSD à eMMC.   Press F10 to Exit and Save Changes, and click yes when it asks if you want to save changes.  Exit bios and turn off Atari VCS.

3.       Flash Batocera to USB stick.

4.       Insert USB stick to VCS and boot.  Batocera will launch automatically.

5.       Install Batocera as follows:

a.       Press Space Bar on Keyboard or Start on Controller to enter Main Menu.

b.       Go to System Settings, then scroll down until you get to “Install Batocera on a New Disk.”  Select “Target Device” as your SSD.  This will wipe the entire SSD.  Batocera does not give you the option to install to a partition.  Be careful to select the right target device.  Select “Target Architecture” as x86_64.  Select “Are you Sure” as Yes.  Select the Install button and press enter.

c.       Remove Batocera USB stick.

6.       Flash Linux Mint to USB stick.

7.       Insert USB stick to VCS and boot.  Linux Mint will launch automatically.

8.       Install Linux Mint as follows:

a.       Click on “Install Linux Mint.”  Select SSD as target device.  When installing Linux Mint on SSD, Mint will tell you that there are other operating systems already installed, and will ask if you want to leave those operating systems in place or wipe the whole drive.  Select the option to leave those operating systems in place.  The next screen will allow you to select the size of the partition you want for Batocera and the size you want for Linux Mint.  Finish install process and VCS will reboot into Linux Mint.

9.       Install rEFInd boot manager as follows:

a.       Make sure you are connected to the internet.  If you use WiFi, you will need to connect to Wifi network from within Linux Mint by clicking on wireless icon, even if Atari OS has your wireless credentials you need to reenter them in Linux Mint.

b.       In Linux Mint, open the “Terminal” app that is visible on the bottom bar of the Mint OS.  Type “sudo apt install refind”.  As long as you are connected to the internet, rEFInd will automatically download and install.

c.       Remove Linux Mint USB stick.

10.   Reboot VCS.  Finished!  The VCS now boots directly into rEFInd and will give you the option to boot into Atari OS, Batocera, and Linux Mint.  

a.       You will need a keyboard to select which boot option, however it will automatically boot into the last used OS after 20 seconds, so if you normally play with a controller and don’t have a keyboard connected, you only need to have a keyboard connected when you feel like changing the OS.  Obviously I’d love a controller enabled boot manager but rEFInd can’t do that to my knowledge.

b.       Optional: There will likely be too many boot options that appear, so you can clean up the U/I by deleting unnecessary options until you just have the 3 boot options for Atari OS, Batocera, and Linux Mint.

[zzip]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:04 PM, MikeA said:

Install rEFInd boot manager permanently on SSD (and also dual boot Atari OS and Batocera)

Thank you!   This looks like the most comprehensive doc to date that we can point new users to when they have questions about dual-booting,  bios password not working, or installing Batocera.

 

One question though,  Does Mint just resize the Batocera partition, and Batocera still works after?   I really wish the Batocera installer could handle installing to a partition.  Seems lazy to do it the way it does.

[MikeA]

3 hours ago, zzip said:

Thank you!   This looks like the most comprehensive doc to date that we can point new users to when they have questions about dual-booting,  bios password not working, or installing Batocera.

 

One question though,  Does Mint just resize the Batocera partition, and Batocera still works after?   I really wish the Batocera installer could handle installing to a partition.  Seems lazy to do it the way it does.

Yes, Mint allows you to resize the Batocera partition and Batocera still works after.  Batocera is the first partition and Mint is the second partition.  I decided to leave the Mint portion small (100GB is minimum recommended for Mint so I went with 150GB) and the Batocera partition large (about 800 GB)  I agree, I really wanted to just install Batocera directly to the partition, but perhaps that might come one day in a Batocera update.

[Capt Moore]

This is a bit of a late reply. But how would these instructions be altered to put windows 10/11 and Batocera onto the ssd m.2 drive? 

[zzip]

9 hours ago, Capt Moore said:

This is a bit of a late reply. But how would these instructions be altered to put windows 10/11 and Batocera onto the ssd m.2 drive? 

set up a partition for each.   Refind automatically detects bootable OSes when it runs, so they should just appear

 

Edit: just reviewed the instructions and see that Batocera doesn't play nice with partitions,  it wants the whole disk,  so sounds like you will have to install that first.   When partitioning, maybe set up a small parition for mint, and the rest for windows

Edited December 8, 2022 by zzip

[Capt Moore]

11 hours ago, zzip said:

set up a partition for each.   Refind automatically detects bootable OSes when it runs, so they should just appear

 

Edit: just reviewed the instructions and see that Batocera doesn't play nice with partitions,  it wants the whole disk,  so sounds like you will have to install that first.   When partitioning, maybe set up a small parition for mint, and the rest for windows

I am a bit confused.  After I install BATOCERA, I then install mint Linux, but it only lets me split the drive between the two os, correct?  Then how do I make a third partition for windows?

 

Can I skip Linux and just use windows itself to make the windows partition (resizing Batocera in the process) and to install rEFInd, or does rEFInd only install via Linux?

 

I will probably just have to play around with this stuff a bit, but it looks complicated for sure.

 

 

EDIT:  I just watched a video that showed the install can go to a partition manager, hopefully I can make multiple partitions from there.  Thanks for the help, I am still a couple weeks away from having all the parts I need to attempt this, but this info should be very useful.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Capt Moore
Figured some things out on my own…

[zzip]

13 hours ago, Capt Moore said:

I am a bit confused.  After I install BATOCERA, I then install mint Linux, but it only lets me split the drive between the two os, correct?  Then how do I make a third partition for windows?

There's a few options,  you could make a small partition for mint, and use the rest for Windows or convert the Mint partition to a Windows drive later,  or try to do it without using Mint.

 

13 hours ago, Capt Moore said:

Can I skip Linux and just use windows itself to make the windows partition (resizing Batocera in the process) and to install rEFInd, or does rEFInd only install via Linux?

Yes, you can put rEFInd on a USB drive and install it from there.    The rEFInd website has the USB image and instructions: https://rodsbooks.com/refind/getting.html

I find the site to be a bit information overload, but it does a good job at covering different scenarios.

 

Windows might be able to resize the partition successfully.   

 

13 hours ago, Capt Moore said:

I will probably just have to play around with this stuff a bit, but it looks complicated for sure.

 

 

EDIT:  I just watched a video that showed the install can go to a partition manager, hopefully I can make multiple partitions from there.  Thanks for the help, I am still a couple weeks away from having all the parts I need to attempt this, but this info should be very useful.

 

Cool, be sure to share any interesting tips you discover. 

 

 

[Goochman]

So Ive been messing around with all of this the past few days with 0 luck.  I have a 1Tb SSD and first installed Bactoera which took the whole disk (8gb partition and then a 550mb one).  I booted Mint via USB and the "Disks" app could not make changes to the partition.  I couldnt resize Batocera nor add new partitions to free space saying it could not makes changes due to not being able to manage the disk.  I gave up on Batocera and installed Mint with 500gb and created another partition for Win10 at 500gb.  Started the Windows installer and was told it cant install due to not being a GPT disk...............I converted the disk to GPT and the installer would not finish..................I changed the BIOS to Legacy and ran the Windows installer again.  Was told it cant install because the disk WAS GPT.............Went back to Mint and repartition the drive as an MBR disk.

 

The Windows installer seems to be working with MBR partition and Legacy BIOS - not UEFI.

 

Im assuming anything Batocera brought to the table I can install on my own via MAME.  I left 400GB free on my SSD for Mint or some other Linux distribution.