Jump to content
IGNORED

The future of C64/128 homebrew


Recommended Posts

Given the recent release of Attack Of The PETSCII Robots, Puzzle Bobble and Sonic The Hedgehog, do you think more games will require a Commodore 64 or a REU expansion? If we see more NES/arcade ports, the extra RAM and DMA would help for sure. But I'm honestly not sure if the Commodore aficionados will jump the gun and buy expansions just for some homebrew (I mean, PowerPC Amigas are a thing...). Your opinion on the matter?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the original REU is rare and quite expensive unless you manage to strike a deal. However there are plans to build modern REUs at hopefully far lower prices and once those are around, price and availability won't be preventive factors anymore.

 

If you got an Ultimate-II+ or similar, it has built-in REU emulation. I believe the Turbo Chameleon has as well? Given how many C64 users have bought cartridges like those, either the market for REU replicas has been saturated or it is a sign that many will want one if the price is right.

 

Also in order to sell REUs, there needs to be a software base to use it for. At the same time there needs to be a user based of REU owners in order to make software that requires one. Someone needs to break that deadlock, and perhaps the Sonic replica just did.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think developers will avoid REU requirements simply because it cuts the user base and will mean less cheering after the release. On the other hand I believe most developers are struggling to get games to work on NTSC with the higher frame rate. Going the Sam’s Journey route and require it for NTSC is an interesting approach that I think we will see more of. It cuts a smaller part of the user base and helps ship the game with less effort.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/7/2022 at 2:45 AM, bjonte said:

On the other hand I believe most developers are struggling to get games to work on NTSC with the higher frame rate.

It's not the higher frame rate that's the issue per se. It's that there are less free CPU cycles left after updating the screen on NTSC computers, cycles that could be used for other things gameplay wise, or generating double buffer for scrolling purposes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 4/6/2022 at 10:50 PM, Cris1997XX said:

Given the recent release of Attack Of The PETSCII Robots, Puzzle Bobble and Sonic The Hedgehog, do you think more games will require a Commodore 64 or a REU expansion?

From these three C64 games you mentioned, only "Sonic the Hedgehog" needed a REU expansion, the other two not. They also run on a normal C64. Just wanted to make this clear, because it sounds a bit like that, in your sentence.

 

Then to the topic. I personally don't think, it will come to the C64 that more and more games will come out only for the REU. That will be the case occasionally, but not the rule, i am sure. Also in a number of 'normal' games, the C64 was already maxed-out in the recent years ("Sam's Journey" is one of them) and alot of the newer games play and looks fantastic. Therefore, in my opinion, is not necessarily a need for lots of new games for the REU. According to my experience, the aim of many programmers on the C64, is more, to exploit the limits of the normal C64 hardware, not the limits of C64 hardware-extensions. But, from my point of view, i have no objection to some isolated games like this. They are interesting to watch.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

That depends on whether the authors need the extra RAM or the speed/blitting capabilities of the REU.  The REUs can do single cycle memory copies of blocks of data to/from the REU (1 byte per cycle), or swap data with the REU (1 byte per 2 cycles) which is an order of magnitude faster than even the most highly optimized assembly routines.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 4/6/2022 at 2:50 PM, Cris1997XX said:

Given the recent release of Attack Of The PETSCII Robots, Puzzle Bobble and Sonic The Hedgehog, do you think more games will require a Commodore 64 or a REU expansion? If we see more NES/arcade ports, the extra RAM and DMA would help for sure. But I'm honestly not sure if the Commodore aficionados will jump the gun and buy expansions just for some homebrew (I mean, PowerPC Amigas are a thing...). Your opinion on the matter?

Puzzle Bobble requires an REU?  Seems to run just fine on my stock 64... well, okay my stock C128 in 64 mode.

 

Anyway, in my opinion, REU games will remain a "niche" market within the C64 gaming community.  I certainly don't spend a lot of time playing games that won't run on my regular old NTSC C128.  I do play using VICE, but if I can't take the games I download over to my real hardware, they don't get much of my attention.  And as for buying games, I'll only spend money on the games that fit the above criteria.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Virtualsky said:

Anyway, in my opinion, REU games will remain a "niche" market within the C64 gaming community.  I certainly don't spend a lot of time playing games that won't run on my regular old NTSC C128.

You might be surprised.  If modern REUs are available, people just might buy them up if they see an advantage for doing so.  In the TI world, we have good modern 32k expansions that people buy knowing that there is a good bit of software which either benefits or requires it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

You might be surprised.  If modern REUs are available, people just might buy them up if they see an advantage for doing so.  In the TI world, we have good modern 32k expansions that people buy knowing that there is a good bit of software which either benefits or requires it.

I could very well be!  I suppose it could all come down to how good the games are and how driven people are to play them.  More RAM doesn't mean better games.  I'll take Frantic Freddie over C64 Sonic any day.  But that's just me.  Playing REU games, however, is pretty much effortless when played on an emulator, and maybe that's all that some people need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Virtualsky said:

I could very well be!  I suppose it could all come down to how good the games are and how driven people are to play them.  More RAM doesn't mean better games.  I'll take Frantic Freddie over C64 Sonic any day.  But that's just me.  Playing REU games, however, is pretty much effortless when played on an emulator, and maybe that's all that some people need.

This is true, too.  Emulation works perfectly fine at no expense for casual users, or pay a fairly reasonable amount on the Mini/Maxi for casual users who want a physical experience without the nuances of real hardware.  For people who want the nostalgia or experience of running real hardware, a good 64 with a modern REU is an attainable goal if they want to run more "advanced" games (advanced meaning they use features not available in a stock console.)

 

For the more technical, tinkerers, and the like, all three aspects are tools toward a specific purpose.  I run Vice sometimes, I also have a Mini and a Maxi, a 64Reloaded Mk2, an Ultimate 64, and real 64 hardware.  Each has its place and purpose, whereas I expect other technical people like myself, as well as casual users, will settle with one of those options for more broad usage.

 

This may or not make sense, as I am under the influence of a headache right now. :D

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...
On 7/30/2022 at 10:48 PM, Virtualsky said:

I could very well be!  I suppose it could all come down to how good the games are and how driven people are to play them.  More RAM doesn't mean better games.  I'll take Frantic Freddie over C64 Sonic any day.  But that's just me.  Playing REU games, however, is pretty much effortless when played on an emulator, and maybe that's all that some people need.

The REU is mostly used to avoid multi-loading, since the biggest one is a whopping 512KB (Many NES and Master System games are around that size), and I think that Sonic The Hedgehog port needs the DMA capabilities for the scrolling? You can go really fast in that title at times. Anyway, it's convenient for a number of reasons but you're right in considering it a niche thing. I still hope more homebrews will take advantage of it 😁

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Future C64 and 128 developers may like using the GameLoader IDE to create cross platform C64 and Atari 2600 games with NES style capabilities and programmable graphics.

 

GameLoader is an Atari 2600 Emulator for the C64 that adds PETSCII graphics and creates standalone prg binaries players may colorize like litebrite or a coloring book with the color keys.

 

Here is STARBLITZ for the Atari 2600 running on the C64 with a custom palette I drew on the screen:

 

Arkanoid Airhead with a custom color palette:

 

ARKANOID_AIRHEAD_FINDS_AIRHEAD.txt

GameLoader development supports BASIC and Assembly programming. Here is a link to STARBLITZ running at double speed in the Turbo Edition with no changes to the source.

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...