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Ha! They are 'Monsters', not 'Ghosts'!


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7 hours ago, Jaden (JRH) said:

I thought the ghosts were jellyfish or squids when I was a kid. I guess then that would make Pac-Man a little fish eating fish flakes. And some really soggy fruit, random bells, crashed spaceships and their keys. I mean hey, all kinds of stuff ends up sinking to the bottom of the ocean.

 

I really like @CMR's interpretation. Since the game is all about eating food, it would make sense that the ghosts were actually food too.

In fact, there are "octopus" creatures in Namco's Warp Warp that look a lot like Pac-Man "ghosts".

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Does Toru Iwatani get a say?

 

Wired.com: Did you take inspiration from Japanese animation or manga?

Iwatani: Very much so. Pac-Man is inspired by all the manga and animation that I'd watch as a kid. The ghosts were inspired by Casper, or Obake no Q-Taro.

The game idea – eating a power cookie and powering up to defeat the ghosts – was inspired by Popeye eating spinach and defeating Bluto, turning the tables on him.

Wired.com: What about Pac-Man would you say came from a Japanese aesthetic, specifically?

Iwatani: Japanese youngsters really wanted "ghost" type characters – not necessarily modeled on creatures, but things that don't really exist in this world. Even within animation, they want characters that are the products of the writer's imaginations. In North America at the time, the games were about car races or warfare. They wanted games that simulated the real world, whereas Japan wanted otogibanashi (fairy tales).

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5 minutes ago, RevEng said:

Does Toru Iwatani get a say?

 

Wired.com: Did you take inspiration from Japanese animation or manga?

Iwatani: Very much so. Pac-Man is inspired by all the manga and animation that I'd watch as a kid. The ghosts were inspired by Casper, or Obake no Q-Taro.

The game idea – eating a power cookie and powering up to defeat the ghosts – was inspired by Popeye eating spinach and defeating Bluto, turning the tables on him.

Wired.com: What about Pac-Man would you say came from a Japanese aesthetic, specifically?

Iwatani: Japanese youngsters really wanted "ghost" type characters – not necessarily modeled on creatures, but things that don't really exist in this world. Even within animation, they want characters that are the products of the writer's imaginations. In North America at the time, the games were about car races or warfare. They wanted games that simulated the real world, whereas Japan wanted otogibanashi (fairy tales).

No. Why would he? ;)

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The beauty of classic-era games is that they use your imagination because every detail isn't filled in.  Who cares if they are ghosts, monsters, or ghost monsters.  They can be whatever you want them to be, and personally I kind of like it that way.  As this thread shows, it's probably all of them depending on the context or who was talking to whom.  Are they "officially" supposed to be monsters? Probably, but I still call them ghosts most of the time.

Edited by BydoEmpire
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http://www.ataricompendium.com/archives/articles/pac-man_monsters_ghosts/pac-man_monsters_ghosts.html

 

Don'tcha just love it when YouTube Zoomers retread the same crap over and over just for Likes & Subscribes?

 

(Guess it's hard to read web sites when you only use a smarkphone...)

 

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12 minutes ago, MrMaddog said:

http://www.ataricompendium.com/archives/articles/pac-man_monsters_ghosts/pac-man_monsters_ghosts.html

 

Don'tcha just love it when YouTube Zoomers retread the same crap over and over just for Likes & Subscribes?

 

(Guess it's hard to read web sites when you only use a smarkphone...)

 

 

Yeah, it seemed that in the space of a couple of years, reading articles about video games largely went out the window, in favor of staring at the YouTube screen. Article-based sites like mine are mostly kept up for one's own writing enjoyment, rather than hoping anyone actually reads the material. Fair enough, as that's the best motive behind any creative undertaking; and the shift to A/V being more popular is not a huge surprise. I'm used to being severely out of touch anyway. I don't even have an immobility phone. And in keeping with your signature there, I'm a game-player as well, not a "gamer," as I'm one of those insufferable grammar-heads that you hear about; the verb "to game," while kind of funny, hasn't made it into my pedantic vocabulary. Talk about not being with the program, huh? :)

 

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On 4/21/2022 at 10:05 AM, MrMaddog said:

http://www.ataricompendium.com/archives/articles/pac-man_monsters_ghosts/pac-man_monsters_ghosts.html

 

Don'tcha just love it when YouTube Zoomers retread the same crap over and over just for Likes & Subscribes?

 

(Guess it's hard to read web sites when you only use a smarkphone...)

 

That's what they call "research" these days.  ?

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I have shared this before, and hope it's not too repetitious of me. I really find it important to preserve the PROPER history of the game. It pleases me greatly to see somebody from a younger generation seeking the truth and preserving the true history of the game. I didn't see this as just a ploy for hits.

 

I understand that "ghost" has become common, even though it still is like nails on a chalkboard to me (as well as describing "ENERGIZERS" as "power pellet" or "power pills" -- LAME!).

 

As a child in the arcade, it was a BIG deal when Blinky's fleshy leg (and later body) was revealed. Only the kids that weren't allowed to go to the arcade, or people who got involved after the history was rewritten, called them ghosts.

image.png.9f08808bf96a43bac9f6d65e7849fdcb.png

 

And the third intermission made it even clearer.

image.png.16d21f81ad39640159a872916d097305.png

 

Also, what kind of game would it be if they were really ghosts. Ghosts go through walls. Pac-Man would be the only one to follow the maze. It doesn't make sense on many levels.

 

I think the "violence" and carnage had to be toned down in order to take the story concept to Saturday morning cartoons. It's a lot more acceptable to eat a "spirit" that doesn't get hurt. I think Atari found "ghost" as a way to explain the white flickery enemies. (I know they are different colors on the VCS, but I can barely tell.)

 

I find it very disheartening that (as they state in the video) culture has changed history to the point where people can be presented with fact and still deny it. I guess a lot of people weren't good enough to get to the Apple level in the arcade game, or they were not allowed to play in the arcade.

 

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"I hate to accept the facts, so...I'll criticize the guy's delivery."

Glad someone out there agrees with what I've been saying for nearly 40 years. THEY'RE MONSTERS, PEOPLE. Sez so on the arcade bezels. "Ah, but those are the U.S. Bally/Midway versions! What about the Japanese versions?" Tell ya what. Find yourself a Japanese bezel. Don't have one? Google Images! Open up the Google Translate app and have it translate from Japanese what it sez on the bezel. Get back to me with what the translation calls those critters. I'll wait. :)

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14 minutes ago, Dauber said:

"I hate to accept the facts, so...I'll criticize the guy's delivery."

Glad someone out there agrees with what I've been saying for nearly 40 years. THEY'RE MONSTERS, PEOPLE. Sez so on the arcade bezels. "Ah, but those are the U.S. Bally/Midway versions! What about the Japanese versions?" Tell ya what. Find yourself a Japanese bezel. Don't have one? Google Images! Open up the Google Translate app and have it translate from Japanese what it sez on the bezel. Get back to me with what the translation calls those critters. I'll wait. :)

The video addresses the Japanese bezels in the video, as well as Japanese spin-offs, like handhelds. The ORIGINAL Japanese bezels do also translate to "Monster", as well as instructions found on the Japanese control panels.

 

There is a remake (blue colored) of the Japanese Puckman card, on Deviant Art. That translates to "Ghost", but it is a modern reproduction.

 

Google Translate can do some weird things, but "Bachmann" also seems to be a consistent translation. Must have to do more with the pronunciation in English.

 

tempFileForShare_20220425-110507.thumb.jpg.8a00dfc028ca8c6dec8bfe247570bc61.jpg

 

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Does a distributor, marketer, player, whomever or whatever else, trump the actual creator's description of the characters?

:?

 

Per Toru Iwatani:

"Pac-Man is inspired by all the manga and animation that I'd watch as a kid. The ghosts were inspired by Casper, or Obake no Q-Taro.

The game idea – eating a power cookie and powering up to defeat the ghosts..."

:ponder:

 

A game that is set in a fictitious environment, the laws of science and logic may not apply properly.  If they did, someone should have reached out to Shigeru Miyamoto and explained to him how barrels rolling off the top of a ramp would not fall they way they do in Donkey Kong, including randomly selecting ladders to go down.  Fire doesn't dance around as an adult size flame chasing an overweight 'jumpman'.  Additionally, the size of that 'flame' would not be put out by a hammer either.  One rivet cannot possibly hold an entire structure together.  :P

 

After that, someone should have later moved on to Warren Davis and Jeff Lee and explain how purple snakes don't wind their tails in a coil and jump around attached cubes in a diagonally manner.  And what is a Q*bert anyhow? ;)

 

Whatever your 'stance', people are certainly passionate about the topic to state the least.  :D

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1 minute ago, Trebor said:

Does a distributor, marketer, player, whomever or whatever else, trump the actual creator's description of the characters?

:?

 

Per Toru Iwatani:

"Pac-Man is inspired by all the manga and animation that I'd watch as a kid. The ghosts were inspired by Casper, or Obake no Q-Taro."

:ponder:

They addressed this also in the video, making some good points on the matter. If you consider what they explained in the video, along with the fact that somebody had to interpret his Japanese answers, it dilutes the quote as the concrete answer. Based on current culture, it is very likely a translator would have chosen "ghost"; but it's also likely that Toru may feel it's a close enough description to what he envisioned, to go along with culture. It appears Obake no Q-Taro were not considered "ghosts" until it was broadcast in America. Casper is kind of an outlier. May have been a modern day reference to connect to the current culture. Who knows? It just seems like the scale is still much more weighted to the original when all is in context.

1 minute ago, Trebor said:

Whatever your 'stance', people are certainly passionate about the topic to state the least.  :D

True. I think the video was about more than just Pac-Man though. It was just a great choice for an example, and they did great research.

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2 hours ago, Defender_2600 said:

They are monsters who have a ghost sheet but will become ghosts after being eaten :P

 

The original 2600 version doesn't have the cutscenes so those could also be flashing ghosts .. :)

 

I agree that they're definitely ghosts on the 2600.  Except they're too stupid to go through the walls.  :)

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1 hour ago, darryl1970 said:

 Casper is kind of an outlier. May have been a modern day reference to connect to the current culture. Who knows? It just seems like the scale is still much more weighted to the original when all is in context.

??? he's saying Casper was an inspiration for the creatures, so he can "connect [it] to the current culture" ??? Either you're using a different definition for "inspiration" than most people, or you're calling him a liar.

 

I agree that in the interview he likely said "obake", which is a sapeshifter that includes but doesn't imply ghosts. But his citing Casper as an inspiration, and their sheet-wearing, and their getting eaten but not destroyed is all very suggestive of ghosts. Certainly it blows away the claim that "ghosts" is some invention of the people too young or too terrible at pacman to know the truth of the matter.

 

IMO the only definitive answer to the thread question isn't "they're ghosts" or "they're monsters", but rather is "they're obake".If anybody wants to know what kind of obake, they'll need to ask Mr. Iwatani. There is no slam-dunk "you people are wrong" evidence I've seen in any of the materials posted here, though to my mind the interview and Casper refrence goes a long way toward the "ghost" hypothesis.

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On the arcade machine's English instructions, they're Monsters. That's enough for me. The brilliant Oriental man who programmed the game can call them fried haddocks, for all I care -- at least my memory of the coin-op bezel isn't playing tricks on me. :)

 

Now. Is there such an album title as Led Zeppelin IV?

 

(Running away, legally changing name, moving into new house and growing beard)

 

 

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