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It’s a magic that the dreamcast failed


johannesmutlu

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Sega did pretty much everything right with the dreamcast,

1, the right amount of supply,

2,easy to program for,

3,a cool sleeck design along with a great name for it and being in fresh white color,

4,good sega titles,

5,they delivered it right on time,

 

but because sony’s ps2 was not only compatible with ps1 games but it also had a dvd player,so despite sony couldn’t deliver enough ps2’s before chistmas of 2000,but sega just could ship enough dreamcasts before christmas of 2000,but instead everybody just bought a dreamcast, they were just f@ckin waiting for that ps2 instead,HOTDAMNIT also because of it’s builtin dvd player & probably also for it’s backwards compatibility with ps1 games!!??

i just can’t f@ckin believe this because how many times it has been proven that from time to time again a multi media system or a backwards compatible system couldn’t hold a candle against it’s compatitor, look the atari 7800 vs the nes, sega master system against the nes, the CDI vs the snes & genesis,

genesis vs snes etc,,,

so how is this possible?


The thing is that if sega added compatibility with saturn games along with dvd playback support, it probably would,ve made the dreamcast twice as expensive.


now could it a HUGE coincidance that 2000 and early 2001 were hopeful day’s for sega before the colapse of the dreamcast in march of 2001,exactly at the moment when my life started to be hopeless after the love between my beloved girlfriend broke down,my life was never gonna be the same again after late march 2001,and so because of that the dreamcast does have a special place in my hearth because of it’s matching moments in my life with it,it was at a hopeful moment when i was hopeful of my future and the dreamcast colapsed at the moment once my love with athat girlfriend felt apart too,i cannot think of a bigger coincidance then this,

BTW the ps2 turned out to be also harder to program for just like the saturn and also just like the saturn it was standard in black color,so it’s amezing that despite of that, many game developers just jumped in on the bandwagon,just unbelievible

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It looks like autocorrect got you on the title of your thread. But yes, what happened to the Dreamcast was tragic.

 

There were so many people who felt burned by the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn, that a lot of them ignored the Dreamcast and waited for the PS2.

 

I do occasionally wonder what a modern day Sega console would be like, had the Dreamcast succeeded and not failed. The DC clearly was a powerful console that had a tremendous wealth of iconic IPs (i.e. Sonic, Crazy Taxi, JetSet Radio, Power Stone, etc). As someone whose entire family owned their own Dreamcast consoles (my father, brother and I), we were truly hardcore Sega all the way. I remember playing Sonic Adventure for the first time, and being blown away by the first stage and that giant whale chasing Sonic.

 

Resident Evil: Code Veronica was another high moment for the Dreamcast. I played that game every single day until I beat it. The same goes for both Shenmue games. I remember beating the first Shenmue on Thanksgiving day.

 

As disappointed as I was over the cancellation of the Dreamcast, I moved on to the PS2 (and then the original Xbox). I always look back wondering ‘what if’, but knowing how Sega was as a company, I knew there would never be a Dreamcast successor or anything else by them. Sadly, the writing was on the wall, so to speak. Sega was done with being a console manufacturer.

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On 4/24/2022 at 12:55 AM, johannesmutlu said:

Sega did pretty much everything right with the dreamcast,

1, the right amount of supply,

2,easy to program for,

3,a cool sleeck design along with a great name for it and being in fresh white color,

4,good sega titles,

5,they delivered it right on time,

 

but because sony’s ps2 was not only compatible with ps1 games but it also had a dvd player,so despite sony couldn’t deliver enough ps2’s before chistmas of 2000,but sega just could ship enough dreamcasts before christmas of 2000,but instead everybody just bought a dreamcast, they were just f@ckin waiting for that ps2 instead,HOTDAMNIT also because of it’s builtin dvd player & probably also for it’s backwards compatibility with ps1 games!!??

i just can’t f@ckin believe this because how many times it has been proven that from time to time again a multi media system or a backwards compatible system couldn’t hold a candle against it’s compatitor, look the atari 7800 vs the nes, sega master system against the nes, the CDI vs the snes & genesis,

genesis vs snes etc,,,

so how is this possible?


The thing is that if sega added compatibility with saturn games along with dvd playback support, it probably would,ve made the dreamcast twice as expensive.


now could it a HUGE coincidance that 2000 and early 2001 were hopeful day’s for sega before the colapse of the dreamcast in march of 2001,exactly at the moment when my life started to be hopeless after the love between my beloved girlfriend broke down,my life was never gonna be the same again after late march 2001,and so because of that the dreamcast does have a special place in my hearth because of it’s matching moments in my life with it,it was at a hopeful moment when i was hopeful of my future and the dreamcast colapsed at the moment once my love with athat girlfriend felt apart too,i cannot think of a bigger coincidance then this,

BTW the ps2 turned out to be also harder to program for just like the saturn and also just like the saturn it was standard in black color,so it’s amezing that despite of that, many game developers just jumped in on the bandwagon,just unbelievible

 

 

8A5B9295-B6D4-42E2-9E47-129EBE295C05.jpeg

Edited by johannesmutlu
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On 4/23/2022 at 9:36 PM, ColecoGamer said:

It looks like autocorrect got you on the title of your thread. But yes, what happened to the Dreamcast was tragic.

My guess is a bad Google translate...

 

Honestly, this topic has been done to death and nothing new is added here. The Dreamcast not only failed, it failed spectacularly. And honestly, it's little to do with the console (except that it lacks a DVD drive) or games, and more to do, as ColecoGamer mentioned, Sega's politics just absolutely losing the trust of the consumer market.

 

Honestly, I know I'm in the minority here, but I'd still take the PS2 over the Dreamcast. The DC has some good racers (thanks @Zeptari!), but it's not my favorite console, nor does it even have my favorite racer from the era. And my god, that controller is terrible. (Unlike the 7800, you and I both got the same controller this time). If anything the Dreamcast has many faults overlooked by its fans.

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Perhaps it's a miracle the Dreamcast did as well as it did.

 

1) Racing games made you use that stupid trigger when they should have let you map our own controls!  Thankfully this did not affect the brilliant SF Rush 2049 and its amazing Stunt Mode.

2) Their Arcade stick seemed to work for Fighting games and almost nothing else.  Why not map it as a regular controller with a button to swap Sticks/D-Pad?  This sort of thing pisses people off.

3) SONY was just doing their own thing when Dreamcast bent over and gave up.   Sure SEGA, You'll Support Dreamcast one more year!... N O T ! !   Exactly as we,  the fans predicted...One month after the announcement,  there were no Dreamcast games on shelves...

4) SEGA chose to go out with whimper not a Bang,...Even as their fans begged them to stay aboard,...They exited a sinking ship through the back door as if no one would notice.

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the controllers weren't great. the cord came out of the bottom???

 

While there were a decent number of sega and capcom titles for the system, finding the actual discs for sale was another thing. I basically only saw crap like sega tennis and whatnot in stores.

Being a windows machine it was hacked very early on, and with self booting backups, you didnt need mod chips or swap method. Anyone could just throw a bootleg game in and it would work. There was a point early on that I stopped buying retail games, personally.

i had two agetech fightsticks and every fighting game. So I too loved the dreamcast. The reality is most people only had the crappy standard pads and basic stuff like sonic and other games mentioned here. Most people I knew didn't own any good titles. So I see why the masses didn't really take notice.

Things like no Tekken and leaning hard into the 2K sports titles was a huge turnoff for me. Things like MVC2, Power Stone, Cannon Spike, Soul Calibur, MK Gold, SF3, SFA3, Rival Schools, DOA2, Hydro Thunder, etc etc etc is really the highlight of the system to me. Stuff like Crazy Taxi, Jet Grind Radio, etc were okay, but I don't feel they are better than the games I mentioned. They were just the easy to find in a store titles, so that's the games that most people remember.

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On 4/25/2022 at 4:28 AM, GoldLeader said:

Perhaps it's a miracle the Dreamcast did as well as it did.

 

1) Racing games made you use that stupid trigger when they should have let you map our own controls!  Thankfully this did not affect the brilliant SF Rush 2049 and its amazing Stunt Mode.

2) Their Arcade stick seemed to work for Fighting games and almost nothing else.  Why not map it as a regular controller with a button to swap Sticks/D-Pad?  This sort of thing pisses people off.

3) SONY was just doing their own thing when Dreamcast bent over and gave up.   Sure SEGA, You'll Support Dreamcast one more year!... N O T ! !   Exactly as we,  the fans predicted...One month after the announcement,  there were no Dreamcast games on shelves...

4) SEGA chose to go out with whimper not a Bang,...Even as their fans begged them to stay aboard,...They exited a sinking ship through the back door as if no one would notice.

But even worse sega eventually surrended and made games for the ps2,ngc and xbox including ports from their dreamcast and bundled genesis classic on 1 disc, since then i realized that things were change for good to be never the same again,especially in the mi-2000’s☹️

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On 4/25/2022 at 4:10 AM, Rhomaios said:

My guess is a bad Google translate...

 

Honestly, this topic has been done to death and nothing new is added here. The Dreamcast not only failed, it failed spectacularly. And honestly, it's little to do with the console (except that it lacks a DVD drive) or games, and more to do, as ColecoGamer mentioned, Sega's politics just absolutely losing the trust of the consumer market.

 

Honestly, I know I'm in the minority here, but I'd still take the PS2 over the Dreamcast. The DC has some good racers (thanks @Zeptari!), but it's not my favorite console, nor does it even have my favorite racer from the era. And my god, that controller is terrible. (Unlike the 7800, you and I both got the same controller this time). If anything the Dreamcast has many faults overlooked by its fans.

Yes sega did lost alooot of trust from the consumer,same thing with atari 15 years earlier at that time with their 52000 models and poor 2600 games later on ,and so i bet that if atari accepted the deal with nintendo for a hybrid famicom to be distributed in 1984/early 1985, that atari would,ve succeeded mainly because of the consumer losted there interests and trusts in atari,also atari would,ve make much profit if they had distributed the hybrid famicom system,so am glad atari did recontinued their 7800 system and whether it flopped reasonly or not, i consider the atari 7800 as the rolls royce of all atari system  and i do consider both the dreamcast and sega megadrive as the rolls royce of all sega systems?

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On 4/24/2022 at 10:28 PM, GoldLeader said:

1) Racing games made you use that stupid trigger when they should have let you map our own controls!  Thankfully this did not affect the brilliant SF Rush 2049 and its amazing Stunt Mode.

Blame specific game developers for that one. Though personally speaking, I thought the trigger standard for driving games on the system was great. The Dreamcast's analog triggers have some of the best range of motion of any analog trigger setup, and provides a great experience with the driving games on the system.

On 4/24/2022 at 10:28 PM, GoldLeader said:

2) Their Arcade stick seemed to work for Fighting games and almost nothing else.  Why not map it as a regular controller with a button to swap Sticks/D-Pad?  This sort of thing pisses people off.

Going to file this under, "Arbitrary Complaints". Fighting sticks have always traditionally been replacements for d-pads, NOT analog sticks. It's the same now with any arcade stick, just as it was back then. Any game not programmed to function with a d-pad, will not function with an arcade stick.

On 4/24/2022 at 10:28 PM, GoldLeader said:

3) SONY was just doing their own thing when Dreamcast bent over and gave up.   Sure SEGA, You'll Support Dreamcast one more year!... N O T ! !   Exactly as we,  the fans predicted...One month after the announcement,  there were no Dreamcast games on shelves...

Sega *did* continue to support the console in the States for nearly a year after the announcement (their announcement was March 2001, while their last published title was NHL 2K2, in February 2002). Dreamcast games also didn't disappear overnight from retailers as you indicated (how do you think people got the rest of 2001's releases? Heh).

 

It's unfortunate some games were nixed (Propeller Arena for one, due to 9/11), it's a shame Stateside management chose to not release some of its bigger titles over here (Headhunter, Shenmue II, etc), but to say they jumped ship a month after the announcement is sensationalist, revisionist talk. That's also not accounting for the slew of third-party titles that were released throughout the rest of 2001.

On 4/24/2022 at 10:28 PM, GoldLeader said:

4) SEGA chose to go out with whimper not a Bang,...Even as their fans begged them to stay aboard,...They exited a sinking ship through the back door as if no one would notice.

Few systems went out with a bang and the Dreamcast was no different. We should be glad it even continued to receive the support it did in the last year it was on the market. And technically, any Dreamcast fan worth their salt was keeping up with releases in other regions and importing where necessary (as many did with Shenmue II, Headhunter, Rez, etc). Shooter fans in particular got a long string of officially licensed releases over the next several years in Japan (Ikaruga in particular was a massive title for us shooter fans), so to some of us it didn't "die" when it did for others.

  

On 4/24/2022 at 10:10 PM, Rhomaios said:

Honestly, I know I'm in the minority here, but I'd still take the PS2 over the Dreamcast. And my god, that controller is terrible. (Unlike the 7800, you and I both got the same controller this time). If anything the Dreamcast has many faults overlooked by its fans.

Honestly, in this day I question those who would take a Dreamcast exclusively over a PS2. Its library is just tiny in comparison. In the first year it was out the PS2 library wasn't that impressive when sat next to the Dreamcast's, but that quickly changed.

 

I personally can't agree with the controller statement though. The Dreamcast just doesn't feel right to me without its original pad. That said, I get why some people don't like it. It is a polarizing device, unlike the 7800 joystick that is slightly more commonly despised.

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I was already out of college in 2000, so I was buying stuff for myself.  The Dreamcast really made no impact at all on me.  I was happily buying, renting, trading PS1 games throughout the entire year, and I wasn't even really looking toward the PS2.  I just didn't need another game system.  I definitely knew about the Dreamcast, but the things that would have gotten me to play it were not 1v1 fighters or racing games.  I would have needed another Tomb Raider or Resident Evil exclusive to get me on board.  The NFL 2k series interested me, but there were equivalents on Playstation, so that was not enough to jump into a new console.

 

I didn't know anyone who owned a Saturn or 32x/SegaCD.  AFAIKnew the last great thing that Sega had done was on the Genesis.

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On 4/25/2022 at 3:10 AM, Rhomaios said:

My guess is a bad Google translate...

 

Honestly, this topic has been done to death and nothing new is added here. The Dreamcast not only failed, it failed spectacularly. And honestly, it's little to do with the console (except that it lacks a DVD drive) or games, and more to do, as ColecoGamer mentioned, Sega's politics just absolutely losing the trust of the consumer market.

 

Honestly, I know I'm in the minority here, but I'd still take the PS2 over the Dreamcast. The DC has some good racers (thanks @Zeptari!), but it's not my favorite console, nor does it even have my favorite racer from the era. And my god, that controller is terrible. (Unlike the 7800, you and I both got the same controller this time). If anything the Dreamcast has many faults overlooked by its fans.

I would as well. 

 

Day one owner of both the PS2 and DC, but when the PS2 hit it's stride, software wise, just wow:

 

MGS3 Snake Eater

Silent Hill 2

Shadow Of Rome

Black

GTA 3 and Vice City

God Of War 1 and 2

The Burnout series

Timesplitters 2 and Future Perfect.. 

Cold Winter.. 

 

The controller wasn't perfect, deadzone on the analogue sticks was awful

 

Why it failed has been flogged to death.. 

 

But having just got my first flat at the time and buying the console partly on the strength of going online, to see the online content cut from many UK titles was the final straw. 

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2 hours ago, Austin said:

Dreamcast games also didn't disappear overnight from retailers as you indicated

I don't agree with this, at least in my area.

 

DC games absolutely vanished from store shelves. You would only see a handful of crap titles at most at any store. Oh, they still supported it, but all you could find was crap no one wanted. In fact, that's pretty much how I remember the entire DC run. The console was great, but the controllers sucked. You had to be savvy to find the good games you wanted or else just get a bootleg version of them to play.

Controller was trash. Period. Besides the Agetech sticks I had a few of the Ascii pads as well. They were nice too.

 

320px-ASCIIPadFTWhite.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Slikatel said:

I don't agree with this, at least in my area.

 

DC games absolutely vanished from store shelves. You would only see a handful of crap titles at most at any store. Oh, they still supported it, but all you could find was crap no one wanted. In fact, that's pretty much how I remember the entire DC run. The console was great, but the controllers sucked. You had to be savvy to find the good games you wanted or else just get a bootleg version of them to play.

Controller was trash. Period. Besides the Agetech sticks I had a few of the Ascii pads as well. They were nice too.

And what area was that, to put it into perspective? I was (and still am) in the DC area and stock was plentiful. Obviously this would have varied from area to area.

 

"Trash" is a bit strong and I have a hard time taking that seriously. To each their own.

 

I agree the Ascii pads are solid. A bit on the pricey side these days unfortunately, but they may be worth it for those that still play a lot of the fighters and shooters on the system. Modern controller adapters work well too.

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No, it was trash. Nickel and diming people with VMU's that added nothing and rumble packs. I get that it was modeled after the Saturn Knights into Dreams pad. I am in Springfield, Illinois, but I traveled all over at that time. Pretty much the same thing wherever I went. Sega Tennis and 2K basketball.

I was a huge fan of the Dreamcast. Still am. But, the things people are saying are true. A big reason no one around here didn't play much Jet Grind or Crazy Taxi was because of the damn controller. No one wanted to use it. The reason we got 2 green sticks and the blue and black ascii snk and capcom pads was because the packed in pad was so bad. Also the reason we played mainly fighters on the console.

 

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In a normal, nuanced, friendly conversation, I'd be willing to give the other party the benefit of the doubt. However, the abrasive, edge-lord attitude has moreso led me to believe you willfully had your head in the sand at the time and decided it was better to keep it there ever since. Sounds like a personal problem to me.

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On 4/29/2022 at 3:17 PM, roots.genoa said:

Yeah. I was not a big fan of that controller, but claiming "no one around here didn't play much Jet Grind or Crazy Taxi was because of the damn controller" is one of the most unbelievable things I've ever heard.

Guys, no one was playing those games or using those pads in my circle of friends. I'm guessing you don't want to hear opinions that differ from your own. We worked in arcades. We played fighting games and went to arcade tournaments often. At the competitive level we played them, no one had time for that kind of stuff.

Sorry if I came off harsh, but I am agreeing with what others have already said. Bottom line, I used the correct sticks/controllers for the games that I enjoyed. Once any of us used the green stick or ascii pad, no one wanted to use the packed in pad. lol. which meant games that used the analog didn't get played. My little brother played jet grind, I had ONE friend who loved crazy taxi. Again, those are 1 player games and we played 2 player vs games. Now that I think about it, we had a large group of players, all wanting to play fighting games. No one was going to sit around and watch one guy play an adventure game.

For what it's worth, when it was just me, I played a good deal of resident evil code veronica with the pad. But in all seriousness, for a fighting game fan, there were so many good titles, there was no reason to play other stuff.

 

 

y42vpqemfkt41.png

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On 4/28/2022 at 8:35 PM, Slikatel said:

No, it was trash. Nickel and diming people with VMU's that added nothing.. 

 

 

Sorry, but that's a strange comment to make. 

 

 In D2 , it acted as compass  as you navigated the map.

 

 

Both  Resident Evil Code Veronica and Carrier, the VMU acted as  health read out, saving you having to pause the game to check your health. 

 

Silent Scope used it as a scope for your sniper rifle. 

 

Sonic Shuffle allowed you to see your cards. 

 

It was an ammo counter for Fur Fighters. 

 

NFL2K allowed you to select your plays. 

 

Then there were the mini games:

 

Sonic Adventure – Chao Adventure
 

 

Zombie Revenge – Zombie Fishing, Doubt and Memory
 

 

Power Stone – Gun Rock’s Gun Slots, Falcon’s Aerial Adventure and Shuriken Training
 

 

Sega GT had  a mini racing game, Sega Pocket GT.

 

A simple overhead racing game  with 3 tracks; US, EU and Japan. You collected time power-ups, raced the clock etc. 

 

 

Skies of Arcadia also had a mini adventure, where you  flew  your ship across the open air to uncover treasure and battle off pirates.

 

 

Time Stalker had mini games. 

 

Whilst it wasn't used to it's full potential, it's not fair to claim it added nothing, it was entirely upto developers how they used it. 

 

 

Edited by Lostdragon
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I should also add in defence of the DC VMU, at least it was part of the Dreamcast strategy from day one. 

 

Sony didn't release the Pocket Station for the PlayStation until  January 23, 1999 and even then Japan only,given the PlayStation itself launched in Japan in December 1994, Dreamcast November 1998...

 

 

The VMU itself  launched on 30th July 1998, several months before the console itself and  was marketed as a Godzilla branded Digimon-like toy, not as a way to transfer save data between arcades and home consoles – or to play transferrable minigames. 

 

The Tamagotchi toy was one of the biggest fads of the time, so not unsurprising to see likes of Sega and Sony attempt to cash-in on it where possible. 

 

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7 hours ago, Lostdragon said:

Whilst it wasn't used to it's full potential

Ding ding ding.

The games you mentioned, I didn't play.
The mini games on the VMU were whack.

The battery life was minimal, so get used to it beeping every time you turn it on.
I don't see anything you listed up there worthwhile. Just a gimmick to sell kids VMUs.

BTW, you could barely see that screen and looking at your hands instead of the TV makes zero sense. There is a reason why it has never been attempted again. 

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1 minute ago, Slikatel said:

Ding ding ding.

The games you mentioned, I didn't play.
The mini games on the VMU were whack.

The battery life was minimal, so get used to it beeping every time you turn it on.
I don't see anything you listed up there worthwhile. Just a gimmick to sell kids VMUs.

Sorry but your original statement was that it added nothing. 

 

Whilst i personally didn't spend time with the mini games and indeed it could well be argued a lot of developers just implemented gimmicks in games using it, it still added something other systems couldn't offer. 

 

Not having to pause a game to check your stats for example, helped with immersion. 

 

The Dreamcast had a lot of flaws for sure, i grew tired of that bloody beep, went through multiple systems as they had the reset issue, found the controller uncomfortable... 

 

 

But I can't ignore what Sega were attempting with the VMU, the manner in which it was initally marketed and the fact Sony had their own version for the PlayStation. 

 

I can appreciate your exposure to games which used it might have been limited and you'd not of used the features even if you had seen them, but it was something of a strange claim to make. 

 

I'm not looking to expand the discussion Dreamcast one of the last remaining Retro systems i own now looking to get shot of, as I just don't use it. 

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20 minutes ago, Lostdragon said:

Not having to pause a game to check your stats for example, helped with immersion. 

Not at all. Looking at your controller during gameplay is going to take you out of it. as your eyes search for the tiny screen and then jump back to the TV. Again, there is a reason it's never been done since. As I reread your statement, apart from the not having to pause, you seem to be agreeing with me.

The things I am saying are nothing new. A couple guys on AA have a different opinion, whatever. Have fun playing your VMU buddy.

 

I am now ignoring this topic. Have a nice day fellas.

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20 minutes ago, Slikatel said:

Not at all. Looking at your controller during gameplay is going to take you out of it. as your eyes search for the tiny screen and then jump back to the TV. Again, there is a reason it's never been done since. As I reread your statement, apart from the not having to pause, you seem to be agreeing with me.

The things I am saying are nothing new. A couple guys on AA have a different opinion, whatever. Have fun playing your VMU buddy.

 

I am now ignoring this topic. Have a nice day fellas.

That's the kind of statement i hear from people who question how I can watch subtitled films ?

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you regarding your point of the features being seen as gimmicks, only saying people are entitled to view them as such if that's how they found them. 

 

That's how a discussion works. 

 

I'm hardly going to have fun with my VMU, when as i made clear, the Dreamcast is the next system I plan to get rid of, as I simply don't use it these days, haven't for years in fact. 

 

I too will be using the ignore function, only not in terms of the topic. 

 

 

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I can't resist, lol.

1 hour ago, Lostdragon said:

That's the kind of statement i hear from people who question how I can watch subtitled films ?

subtitles are on the screen, not a controller. It's not the same thing at all. Most every game has a gauge, meter or a timer you have to keep an eye on on the screen. Hey, but you can read while passively watching a movie, good for you.

you say you made it clear that you are getting rid of your DC? LOL. But what you actually said was...
"I'm not looking to expand the discussion Dreamcast one of the last remaining Retro systems i own now looking to get shot of"
...which makes no sense at all.

 

You also said...

"I'm hardly going to have fun with my VMU"

...which is what pretty much any DC user says.


you say you aren't agreeing with me, but, what do you call it when someone repeats the same thing I just said? Hrmm...

I get that I am new here and came off harsh to some of you, but a couple of you really aren't making much sense.
 

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