It’s a magic that the dreamcast failed

[Rhomaios]

On 5/2/2022 at 4:10 PM, roots.genoa said:

If you didn't play Power Stone, go back under your bridge. ?

I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who didn't love Power Stone. It was all right, but 3D fighters in general never appealed to me.

[roots.genoa]

31 minutes ago, Rhomaios said:

I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who didn't love Power Stone. It was all right, but 3D fighters in general never appealed to me.

That's perfectly fine. The guy I was replying to was just starting to get rude, and it got (far) worse afterwards. But I'm glad I (unwillingly) exposed a sock puppet on this forum.

[youxia]

All I got is this

 

 

[johannesmutlu]

Oh yeah i forget to mention that for those people who are convinced that the PS2 became a huge success because of it’s builtin DVD playback feature,that fact that people didn’t bought a dreamcast because of lacking dvd playback support,despite sega delivered enough dreamcast systems while sony just couldn’t keep up with the demand for their PS2,but people just waited untill they could get their hands on their ps2,

 

BUT then 1 year later panasonic did came with their nintendo licensed panasonic q (a hybrid gamecube dvd player in 1 system)

it costed $375 so it was only $76? More expensive then the ps2 wich costed $299,BUT despite that people just considered the panasonic q just too expensive,and while the gamecube only costed $200 thus being $99 cheaper then the ps2,BUT not many people bought the gamecube either all because of lacking DVD playback,so or a console was just slightly too expensive or it was cheap but lacked an essential feature for gamers,it just wouldn’t sold well,so it proves that even if sega would,ve come up with a revision of a dreamcast with builtin dvd playback feature ,it probably would have made the dreamcast just too expensive,thus nintendo just had the bad luck,also both the gamecube and panasonic q did came 1 year too late on the market,had both systems been released in 2000 albeit with lack of many launch games ,they may could,ve had a better chance against sony’s ps2 system,but maybe gamers would,ve still complain about the higher price of the panasonic q or the lack of dvd playback on the cheaper gamecube,we will probably never know☹️

[Monk]

I don't get all that Dreamcast hate, especially the controllers. How can anyone list 'great Dreamcast games' without even mentioning SOUL CALIBUR?!

 

Dreamcast has the BEST tennis game ever, the BEST fighting game ever, and it has some quirky, interesting games that modern games only try to mimic - I'd take Powerstone 1 and 2 ANY time over any 'Super Smash Bros.' crap.

 

What exactly is WRONG with the controllers, by the way? People say they're 'trash', but they never explain why they think that. Because everyone else thinks that?

 

To me, they're perfect, and much better than many modern controllers - have you ever tried playing that boxing game with a modern controller, where the small-range, unresponsive triggers are mapped on _ONE_ axis?!

 

You have to push BOTH triggers down in that game to activate the boost mode or whatever, but whoops, modern controllers don't ALLOW that, because they only work on one axis, so you can EITHER press the left trigger OR press the right one, never both!

 

Dreamcast is advanced enough to allow you to press BOTH SIMULTANEOUSLY. So the controller is BETTER than modern controllers at least in that way.

 

As someone mentioned, the triggers have more range, so subtle movement is more possible - playing a car game of some sorts is great on Dreamcast exactly because of this.

 

Also, why would you WANT to map 'gas pedal' and 'break' to anything NON-ANALOG? Are you some kind of digital dos game driver that can't handle analog controls?

 

To add, Dreamcast controllers' analog control is subtle and ranged enough to ACTUALLY work very well in situations where the crappy PS2, XBox 360 or other more modern controllers just feel like 'almost digital' due to their tiny range and non-maneuverability.

 

People have REALLY weird complaints here, I don't even understand the point about some third-party stick stuff, what does that have to do with anything?

 

Maybe poeple here have tiny hands or something, but Dreamcast controller is the perfect size for my hands anyway, and I see absolutely no problem with it. The VMU units are also incredible, as you can even use them as tiny handhelds and play tetris outside in some nice park on them. Sure, the display is tiny and monochrome, but it's still an amazing and charming feature for a dang MEMORY CARD, how many other game systems have that? How innovative is THAT?

 

Also, the 'modular nature' of the ports is also incredibly well designed, even if it's not utilized to its full potential. I love that you can put a rumble unit AND memorycard in the same gamepad, and you can decide which gamepad has that and which doesn't, and switch MMUs easily around and so on.

 

I don't see any downside to that controller, to me it's perfect, and any time I have emulated Dreamcast and used some inferior controller (which is all of them), I have missed the wonderful Dreamcast controller, it has a great feel, perfect accuracy, amazing analog system and separate triggers. Why would anyone want anything more or different?

 

The cable going the wrong way? You must be kidding me! First of all, you can PUT the cable to go the 'right way' if you wish, because the controller supports that (look down there, there's a place where the cable clips on nicely), and second of all, what kind of complaint is THAT? What does it matter where the cable goes, you're not going to be thinking about the cable when you are playing, are you?

 

PS2 does have great games for it, the Tekken games, Gran Turismo games, err... well, I am sure there are more. But considering how many AMAZING games Dreamcast has, I would definitely rather take Dreamcast than PS2, what's wrong with people?

 

PS2 is a soulless machine, like a PC - lots of corporations just churned the gloomy, dark, 'cool' but depressing, soulless crap to it  and people, like unthinking drones that they are, chose to purchase that crap instead of the imaginative, colorful, energetic Dreamcast games that have much better playability, too.

 

PS2 is like PC of consoles, lots of power and handy features (anyone that bough it because it had a DVD player doesn't deserve to own ANY game consoles), but it's a dark, gloomy, soulless machine that will never give you the delight Dreamcast is capable of.

 

Sega Dreamcast is like Amiga of consoles - less raw power, but born out of genius, vision and full of innovation and user-friendliness.

 

Dreamcast games are amazing, Soul Calibur, Virtua Tennis, Tony Hawk's skating game, Powerstone games, I mean.. PS2 has nothing comparable that you can just pick up and play.

 

Of course nowadays PS2 emulates so well, there's no point in getting the real machine with its 50Hz in PAL and lower resolution (hard to get 60 fps out of a real machine in the PAL-land).

 

But a real Dreamcast is the only thing where you can still press both triggers simultaneously... for that alone, it's worth having.

 

That's also a good reason to choose Dreamcast over PS2 - you can emulate PS2 perfectly, but you can't emulate Dreamcast perfectly, because you won't get the smooth 2D scroll on emulator, and you can't press both triggers on an emulator, and you won't get the slightly quirky, but wonderful, unique, beautifully shaped, NON-BLACK (why does everything have to be black?) controller magic anywhere but with the real machine.

 

I don't get this Dreamcast-hatred, hasn't the underdog been kicked enough, just like the Amiga was? Oh yeah, this is ATARI forum, now it makes sense...

[+Cafeman]

4 hours ago, Monk said:

What exactly is WRONG with the controllers, by the way? People say they're 'trash', but they never explain why they think that. Because everyone else thinks that?

I love Dreamcast, and I still play it regularly when I can. Certainly there is nothing to hate about Dreamcast  IMO.   But I'll comment on your confusion over the controller hate.   It is fine for most games, but we were used to 6 buttons and a comfortable Saturn dpad.. DC dpad is tiny and I find it difficult to be accurate using in fighting games, or stuff like Super Magnetic Neo.  Something about the controller has tired out my hands more quickly than other controllers too, pulling back the spring loaded triggers maybe?  

 

I wish I had bought several of the Capcom FT pads BITD.   

 

Also note that I think the GCN dpad is even worse, by way of comparison. I didnt like the OG Playstation dpad either, it felt more like pressing directional buttons  than pressing a cohesive dpad structure.  

[Zap1982]

Got my Dreamcast here in the UK at launch, no regrets at all then but obviously saddened when they stopped production. I moved onto the Xbox and Gamecube at that point but still played the DC and still go back occasionally to it along with everything else! The Dreamcast was an excellent system and had some great games. True, it had flaws and some things that I will never understand the attraction over (think anything to do with the VMU) but IMO it was much more fun at launch than the PS2 which for me is possibly the most overrated console ever made. Note, I am not saying it is bad or has bad games - just to me it isn;t anything more ground breaking than anything else. The DVD player was indeed good at increasing the sales as was a blu-ray in the PS3 as I know a few people who literally bought both just for that. But I do feel Sony rode the high tides of their excellent original Playstation system. Sony, for many of us entered the gaming market out of the blue at a time when Sega had started to develop a very strange self destructive culture with Sega USA and JP trying to one-up each other all the time and Nintendo were just sort of plodding along. Sony quickly established themselves with a great machine, great games and I am very sure many hopped on board the PS2 just because of that reputation. I don't believe the PS2 ever brought to the table what the original Playstation did.

 

Sega?

In the UK, I certainly think the whole lack of brand loyalty / consumer non-confidence with Sega was a large factor in Sega's downfall. We have to also remember this was pre-mainstream internet times. Hell, many people still didn't own a "home computer" at this point. The high street was everything! I never knew anyone else with a Dreamcast, and I think a big problem was it was the same story for the illusive Sega Saturn. The Saturn at least by me was removed from shelves super early on along with anything Mega CD / 32X with the Megadrive games being relegated to the very back of store shelves or in "clearance" baskets. Sega was very much abandoned or shunned by all the big retailers during the Saturn era. You wouldn't even have found a game in the wild because nobody seemed to have the console. Fast forward to the Dreamcast and Sega were pretty much a childhood memory of 1991 and Sonic the Hedgehog. They just had no presence or relevance anymore. When the DC launched, Sega did of course find their way to shelves but from memory it wasn't back to what it used to be, it was very "Wii-U" style in the sense you would have two or three bays in an aisle of the competition and just one bay of Dreamcast or just the bottom shelf. The bad relations with some store chains never recovered and they simply didn't stock Sega stuff. 

[LynxJagLunatic]

Sega I think like Atari just burnt too many bridges with consumers. As much as I love the Saturn I feel it sealed the Dreamcasts fate. I remember a few of my friends being Insane Genesis fans and buying a Saturn only to sell it or trade it for a PlayStation. The PS2 hype was insane and I believe won on backwards compatibility and having a DVD player built in. The Dreamcast was not going to compete with that.

[Mittens0407]

On 5/13/2022 at 1:04 AM, Monk said:

I don't get all that Dreamcast hate, especially the controllers. How can anyone list 'great Dreamcast games' without even mentioning SOUL CALIBUR?!

I don't understand why the Dreamcast d-pad gets so much hate when the Gamecube controllers d-pad exists. Come to think of it, I think 6th gen was just a bad time for d-pads. Dreamcast's is floaty and creaky. PS2's is... the same as the PS1 pad (I never really liked it). Gamecube has the GBA d-pad but if it had arthritis and the Duke's pad looks like it was left in the oven too long. Or not long enough, I'm not sure.

[eightbit]

I loved the DC controller. Still do. I still feel it is one of the more comfortable controllers to use for me. And the d-pad never gave me any issues at all.

[Creamhoven]

Hello Johannes,

 

I can understand your frustration. With the dreamcast the romantic era of gaming started and ended. It was a short ride, but it was a triumphant one. Even though the dreamcast was not a commercial success, it is far superior than anything that came out since.

 

Even though it is painful, we have to live with the fact that supreme and elegant gaming hasnt won the race. It does not help that we are now living through the dark ages of gaming, a grotesque post modern monstrum that is against nature itself. But i believe strongly that better times will come with a console that surpases even the greatness of the dreamcast. Tokyo Xtreme Racer II, Jet Set Radio, REZ... please come back!

Edited February 26 by Creamhoven