Hardcore does not exist: Gaming then and now

[Frozone212]

(I needed to get this out, don't worry, this is SFW/SFL)

 

Let me start by saying that I as a gamer,  despise the terms Purist, Casual and Hardcore.

 

A purist is a perfectionist and Perfection does not exist. There are those of us that are not inclined to play the game as it was made. We come from all skill sets and play according to how we wish.

 

Hardcore: Someone who has something to prove and brags about it 24/7. They live, breath and practice nonstop over something that to the rest of us is a hobby. They turn a fun past time into a life or death struggle.

 

Casual: Implies you are a weak link, that all you play is mario party and Monopoly, that you are an oddity. The hardcore crowd uses it to imply you aren't a "Real" gamer. Never mind the fact that there is no such thing.

A gamer is someone who enjoys games in all forms and play styles. Calling someone a scrub or telling them to git gud or what have you, not only demoralizes the player but is downright insulting in this day and age.

Not all of us can beat contra with just 3 lives and no continues (A friend I know holds that distinction) or beat Zelda blindfolded. Some of us have crippling OCD or memory issues that make certain games and levels (Looking at you Ristar)

impossible to play. Calling me a scrub then telling me to improve in the worst way possible is a good way to piss me off. This is why I envy the japanese gaming scene. Arcades there are communal, they help each other. Here?

Need to look up a guide? The hardcore will berate you. Stuck and want to ask for help? You might as well not do so.

 

When did the concept of Chivalry in gaming die?  Why is it acceptable to berate and bully struggling gamers. I grew up on the NES and genesis. Did I like the games? Outside of Road rash and Tommy Lasorda Baseball, the answer is NO!

Because I struggled and hated it. I had no guides, no support and no safety net. So telling me to git gud and then insult me afterwards is a massive pet peeve, especially since I don't have the patience for retro difficulty. Who are you to do so, when you may be worse at a genre I enjoy?

I struggle with math, yet my teachers didn't tell me to suck it up, they actually HELPED ME! 

but lord forbid I ask for help with an NES game or earlier because the response is always the same: 

"Git gud scrub"

"go back to mario party"

"Casual alert!"

 

Where did we go wrong? 

Has anybody else ever had ever deal with this?

Edited April 25, 2022 by Frozone212
additional info

[Tanooki]

Yeah they are and always have been fairly childish and bullshit terms to use.  Pieces of them do apply to people in general though.  For me in the last decade I would still stand as a purist sticking to first party controllers or sublicensed(ascii pad and super advantage on snes) and not using less than nearly perfect clones.  Hardcore even when I was all about hours a day every day in the 80s and 90s into the 00s, would still never fit because it was for fun, not being the group douche you've spelled out there.  The thing is I would say by the loosest terms I would fit casual, just not the douchy hardcore losers definition of it.  I'm casual because I don't do it every day, and I prefer not being pissed off dealing with online losers/trolls nor playing above normal level to start or largely at all as it's just not fun being that amped up.

 

You wrote the rest which I think people would largely agree with in the casual area about what kind of scum are out therea nd how they behave.  They're disgusting.  I wish I had a punch face button on a keyboard when some ass uses the misspelled get good bullshit--total f u to you dude.  I refuse to even write it.  Most the (and I'm being a dick saying it, don't care) pussies, yeah pussies who make comments like that largely didn't grow up in the 80s/90s of gaming when stuff was dramatically harder than the games are now comparatively speaking.  We got good, we got better than you, because we didn't ahve save states, insta-checkpoints, save anywhere, and the rest and won... we earned the right to chill, relax, and enjoy the ride without being a twat to others...so like grow up.  I know it's an internet meme about tricking a kid into not getting an expensive gaming item, but I think it fits... put those jerks in front of TMNT1 on NES and make them finish it in one sitting without a game over screen...yeah good luck with that (same with ghosts n goblins) then we'll discuss getting good... amateur.

[Austin]

I sense some unnecessary bitterness in the OP's post. Reality check: People judge other people about basically everything, gaming included. It's what we (unfortunately) do as a society. It's up to you to learn how to stop caring about it.

 

If for some reason someone wants to get better at games, they do have to put the work in. Learn from their mistakes, refer to guides online, try again, rinse and repeat. It's like life. Successes are rarely handed out on a silver platter. One has to work for them. If one doesn't want to? Well, they should just enjoy their hobby in the way that suits them best, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Regarding the "git gud" thing, I recently came upon a video about it. It's a parody of the Dark Souls series, so it's intended to be comedic in nature, but the message still rings true:

 

 

[Razzie.P]

On 4/25/2022 at 5:39 PM, Frozone212 said:

Where did we go wrong? 

Has anybody else ever had ever deal with this?

Yeah, I’m sure.  People are jerks.  Always  have been.  But honestly, a lot of what you mentioned sounds more like something that’s within your ability to control instead of getting worked up over “them.”

If you’re needing help with a game but getting bullied for it or snarky remarks and such, why ask those types for help?  I’m fairly certain that ANY retro game these days will have multiple written faqs, walkthroughs, youtube vids, etc.  Ways to get help as needed without even opening a dialogue that could lead to any negatives.

Where are you asking a question that is leading to such replies?  What tone are you conveying when asking?   Is it “I’m stuck at this part, appreciate any help and thanks in advance” or is it “it’s not my fault, it’s everything else’s fault.”   The latter would tend to attract the jerks more often.
 

 

5 hours ago, Austin said:

I sense some unnecessary bitterness in the OP's post. Reality check: People judge other people about basically everything, gaming included. It's what we (unfortunately) do as a society. It's up to you to learn how to stop caring about it.

 

 

Nicely summarized. 

[Frozone212]

I am afraid to ask for help online because, as someone with anxiety and introversion, I fear getting a backlash. I don't ask for help because the first comment I may get would be disheartening. I've had it happen too many times to count and It's stuck with me for 17 years. It's why I cheat and have little patience for naysayers, yet I still feel pressured, even though no one is causing it. Insecurity can be a bitch and I hate it. That and my OCD preventing me from just relaxing when playing a hard game. I HAVE to beat it or i'll go nuts.

 

That's why I'm afraid to ask for help, because I've been bullied before And i'm afraid i'll be attacked again for being seen as casual. COVID isolation (i'm not infected, just unable to go outside) is also taking a hit on my sanity

Edited April 27, 2022 by Frozone212

[CapitanClassic]

On 4/25/2022 at 2:39 PM, Frozone212 said:

When did the concept of Chivalry in gaming die?  Why is it acceptable to berate and bully struggling gamers. I grew up on the NES and genesis. Did I like the games? Outside of Road rash and Tommy Lasorda Baseball, the answer is NO!

Because I struggled and hated it. I had no guides, no support and no safety net. So telling me to git gud and then insult me afterwards is a massive pet peeve, especially since I don't have the patience for retro difficulty. Who are you to do so, when you may be worse at a genre I enjoy?

 

Where did we go wrong? 

Has anybody else ever had ever deal with this?

There never been chivalry in video games. If retro games are too difficult, there are always save states (or GameGenie) and GameFAQs. 

[mbd39]

On 4/25/2022 at 4:39 PM, Frozone212 said:

When did the concept of Chivalry in gaming die?  Why is it acceptable to berate and bully struggling gamers. I grew up on the NES and genesis. Did I like the games? Outside of Road rash and Tommy Lasorda Baseball, the answer is NO!

 

 

 I watch a Twitch streamer who beats 8-bit and 16-bit retro games that are picked for him. He didn't even grow up with these games, he grew up with N64 and Playstation 2. He's beaten a lot of tough ones such as Ghosts n Goblins, Ninja Gaiden and Battletoads with no cheat codes or save states. You know what game he thought was the worst and the most difficult to actually beat? Genesis Road Rash. There were long days where he didn't win a single race.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by mbd39

[Razzie.P]

3 hours ago, mbd39 said:

 

 I watch a Twitch streamer who beats 8-bit and 16-bit retro games that are picked for him. He didn't even grow up with these games, he grew up with N64 and Playstation 2. He's beaten a lot of tough ones such as Ghosts n Goblins, Ninja Gaiden and Battletoads with no cheat codes or save states. You know what game he thought was the worst and the most difficult to actually beat? Genesis Road Rash. There were long days where he didn't win a single race.

 

Does he always stick with them until they're beaten?  Or ever reach a point where its "you know what, this ain't gonna happen to time to move on to the next one?"

[mbd39]

33 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

Does he always stick with them until they're beaten?  Or ever reach a point where its "you know what, this ain't gonna happen to time to move on to the next one?"

He usually sticks with it until the end. Bump n Jump and Battletoads were the longest grinds at 18 days each.

 

[zzip]

On 4/25/2022 at 5:39 PM, Frozone212 said:

Where did we go wrong? 

Has anybody else ever had ever deal with this?

No not really.   I've often asked for help with games and usually get help not ridicule.

 

Even with Dark Souls games--   that community is renowned for telling you to "Git Gud".   But my experience is if I go there and ask questions I will get useful advice and some will even offer to put down their summon signs to join my game and help me with whatever I'm struggling with.   I can't remember ever being told to 'git gud'.

 

Now one thing that is true of every online forum is when the same question gets asked over and over by newcomers people will get tired of answering and some will lash out.   It pays to search the forum for your question first before asking.   Also a quick survey of the type of people inhabiting the forum also helps...   if it's full of assholes don't bother, if it's full of helpful people go for it.

[Austin]

2 hours ago, mbd39 said:

Bump n Jump and Battletoads were the longest grinds at 18 days each.

 

You see.. Statements like that is exactly why I haven't tried tackling Bump 'n Jump. You're scaring me away from it.

[mbd39]

4 minutes ago, Austin said:

You see.. Statements like that is exactly why I haven't tried tackling Bump 'n Jump. You're scaring me away from it.

Yeah. I've beat Bump n Jump and even when you know what to do it's still hard because of the rng.

[orange808]

If a video game stops being entertaining and becomes a chore, it no longer serves its purpose. Games are fun, by definition. Where and when something becomes "unfun" depends on the individual. That's hard to get right. ? Don't worry about it. 

 

It's not just old games. There's no shortage of new games that are intentionally obtuse. It's what you do when you're a dev in your twenties. ?"I have tested this level five hundred times and I can finish it easy, so anyone that can't obviously just sucks at games."

 

Live and learn. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  It turns out that identifying "real gamers" and entertaining people with a fun game are not always the same thing.

 

[zzip]

1 hour ago, orange808 said:

"I have tested this level five hundred times and I can finish it easy, so anyone that can't obviously just sucks at games."

Heh,  when I designed game levels it was more like "well I got through it once by sheer luck, so anyone can!" 

[newtmonkey]

@Frozone212

There's no reason to play games if they just stress you out.  Where specifically are you being bullied, etc.?  What kinds of games are playing?  If you're playing competitive games (online shooters, etc.), people will by nature be competitive, and there's nothing you can do about it.  If you're playing single player games, I don't see how this is an issue, what with FAQs, walkthroughs, and YouTube playthroughs out there for every game imaginable.

 

AtariAge is a very chill forum, and with just a few exceptions, the people here are very friendly and helpful.  Why not ask for help here?

 

As for math teachers, they are being paid to help their students, and I don't think it would go over well if they refused to do so lol.  You really cannot compare them to some random stranger on the Internet.  If you want that kind of service, maybe hire someone to teach you how to play a game?

Edited April 29, 2022 by newtmonkey

[Frozone212]

thanks for the kinds words everyone.

Admins, can you lock the thread to further replies?

thanks

[MASTER260]

I remember first hearing the terms, "hardcore," and, "casual," all over the place after the Wii came out.  "Casuals," played Wii, while, "hardcores," played Xbox 360...

[jhd]

Maybe I am just too old, but I really do not care what anyone else thinks of my skill at playing games. I well know what my strengths and weaknesses are, and I am largely immune to criticism from random strangers.  

 

Only a very few people in my social circle play video games, and nobody does so seriously. It would simply never occur to me to criticize them for their lack of skills; we are all well past Elementary (or even Middle) School when such behaviour may have been acceptable. 

 

A friend and colleague played basketball competitively at the High School and then Collegiate level. It would be equally absurd for him to criticize my lack of skill in playing basketball as for me ridicule his video gaming skills.

 

We have similar and overlapping roles at work. His knowledge of Subject X is far superior to mine, whereas I am much more proficient and experienced with Subject Y than he is. Which one of us is "better"? 

[Rhomaios]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:23 PM, Frozone212 said:

I am afraid to ask for help online because, as someone with anxiety and introversion, I fear getting a backlash.

Serious talk: you need help offline to help with you ask for help online. Introversion =/= social anxiety, and anxiety is treatable. Not even kidding.

 

On 4/27/2022 at 4:23 PM, Frozone212 said:

Need to look up a guide? The hardcore will berate you. Stuck and want to ask for help? You might as well not do so.

Maybe you're hanging around the wrong parts? I've asked for help and consulted tons of guides. Who actually does this? Where are you seeing it? It's certainly not prevalent on AA.

 

 

[Frozone212]

mostly Gamefaqs. It doesn't happen to me specifically, but to a lot of gamers by elitist snobs (I.e megaman)

[Rhomaios]

1 minute ago, Frozone212 said:

mostly Gamefaqs. It doesn't happen to me specifically, but to a lot of gamers by elitist snobs (I.e megaman)

GameFAQs, the site that...publishes guides and walkthroughs?

[Frozone212]

depends on the game but I haven't posted on there in forever

[Rhomaios]

19 minutes ago, Frozone212 said:

depends on the game but I haven't posted on there in forever

99% of the games I've looked at have a walkthrough. Especially retro stuff. Maybe newer stuff isn't getting that treatment? But that's the whole purpose of the site. FAQs about various games. I remember getting on there back in 97 or so, so it has always been that way. If what you say is true, that newer games don't have guides, then that's a real shame.

[raskar42]

An hour of Dark Souls or an hour of animal crossing is the same hour. Games is games 

[zzip]

16 hours ago, raskar42 said:

An hour of Dark Souls or an hour of animal crossing is the same hour. Games is games 

Just can't beat that Tom Nook boss, anyone want to put down their summon sign to help me?