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Fightstick DUAL Mod: USB/Wired + WIRELESS PADHACK, help needed!


Dochartaigh

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Hi All, total lurker here but I could really use some help. I've posted this 5 different places and what one person has suggested another person says is incorrect (numerous times now)... so I'm having a hell of a time figuring out how to do this, and am hoping the electrical geniuses here can help me.

 

To cut to the chase (I'll put full details below) I want to dual-mod my fightstick so it uses 2x PCB's: stock/wired and WIRELESS. The wired Stock-PCB #1 runs off 5v USB, the wireless Padhack-PCB #2 is an Xbox 360 padhack and runs off 2xAA batteries at ~3v.

 

The problem seems to be that 99.99% of dual-pcb mods in fightsticks seem to be 2x wired boards, which share power lines, and are ALWAYS ran at the same time. I've been told that's what makes my dual-mod so problematic: no shared power, different voltage, one wired and the other wireless, and how I'll only be running 1x PCB at a time (will NEVER run both boards at the same time). I was told if I don't do it right I could have missed inputs, phantom inputs, and/or fry/damage one or both PCB's...

 

How can I wire this up properly so I have no issues?

 

 

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FULL DETAILS

with pics:

 

 

Fightstick (PCB #1):

Razer Atrox, Xbox 360 version:

hDiqyDkl.jpg

 

All wired up with the 2x PCB's and extra buttons needed for the padhack (first time using braided wire sleeves!):

e7Tkt2yl.jpg

 

 

Wired/USB/Stock-PCB #1 board:

You'll see three identical sets of headers on this board: for the 8x buttons, start/back, and the joystick. The first set the fightstick harnesses plug into, and the second is empty (I confirmed continuity between all of them - they're identical). All buttons are shared ground FYI, despite having individual wires running to/from each of the buttons (I assume they did this to keep the wiring nice and tidy). 

yO5bXWsl.jpg

 

 

WIRELESS Padhack-PCB #2:

If it's driving you crazy WHY I would want to do this: I have arthritis so the turbo feature of the wired stock-PCB #1 is very helpful to me. BUT, when I have people over for game night it's great to not have wires for us (or their kids) to trip over so I've been moving everything over to wireless. This is the wireless board I'm using, ripped from an old discontinued Xbox 360 mini-fightstick:

Zs1GdEDl.jpg

 

I've done this padhack twice before (kinda: first one I just replaced the buttons with Sanwa brand in the stock mini-fightstick case, but the 2nd I did properly and moved the PCB over to a full-size fightstick case), and it works perfect, BUT I've ONLY ran the sticks wireless - all the stock/wired PCB stuff was removed... seems like having the option to run both PCB's in the same stick exponentially increases the projects complexity...

 

 

Previous tries / problems / conflicting directions:

For the record I'm a dummy with how electronics/circuits actually work. I can follow directions very well, recap boards on a CRT, build simple things like sync stripper circuits, RGB mod a console, IF AND ONLY IF I have good directions or a tutorial (because I simply don't have the basic knowledge to know the how and why I'm doing X, Y, or Z - I'm simply following directions). So that being said I've posted numerous places to try to find out how this is done. Evidentially I'm the first person in the entire world to want to run a stock wired PCB along with a wireless (non-Brooks) padhack lol... What keeps happening is what one person/group tells me if the correct way, somebody else tells me is wrong... and this has happened numerous times so far... (which is why I'm here to hopefully figure this out!!!).

 

So not to go into too much detail, but for a brief (believe it or not the below is a WAY abridged version lol) history: I thought I could simply use those extra headers on the Stock-PCB #1, and run the set of wires to the wireless Padhack-PCB #2 and call it a day. Was told I can't do this (that they'll 'backfeed'? to each other and do bad things, only if one is powered at a time). Then:

 

  • was told the only way is to install three 6PDT mechanical switches (SPDT/Single Pole Double Throw switches, but with 6x pins on each = 18? wires per switch), totaling something like 48 wires coming/going from those switches which aesthetically (and keeping my sanity) just wasn't going to work whatsoever
  • was then told all I have to do is put diodes (which let electricity only flow ONE way) on the + lines from the Stock-PCB #1 to the Padhack-PCB #2. Was then told that won't work...
  • was then told to totally separate the grounds of each board from each other, and install a switch to switch from one to the other... was then told that won't work since the buttons themselves still get ~3 volts running to them which could power the opposite board and cause issues (even w/out a ground). 
  • was then educated how advanced a mod this is, and that the only way to do it is to use and/or program a logic gate? (programmable?) array? or some such craziness... (WAY more advanced than I want... I'm not installing an Arduino or whatever to switch between 2x pretty simple PCB's...)
  • etc. 
  • etc. 
  • etc. 
  • Then, FINALLY (I think... and THIS is why I'm here!!!) a cool knowledgeable moderator suggested the below diagram (with diodes running on the + lines of BOTH PCB's, to prevent voltage backfeed anywhere), and somebody else in that same group confirmed that should work... but sadly I'm still skeptical being led astray so many times before, and is why I'm posting here to get confirmation this is indeed the way I should go:

 

j0u8NZ4l.png

 

 

IF the above looks like the best solution to this, the initial issue with my particular stick is I simply can't physically fit double sets of wires for each + line through the cable sleeving (and they just don't make an in-between size of braid, in this color, to make this build also look aesthetic, which is a big deal for me), BUT if I'm understanding the above diagram correct, I think I can do it like this:

JCQoHxIl.jpg

 

I'm so incredibly tight for space in the black plastic box the stock PCB is in (where I have to hide all these diodes AND the 18x wire junctions running off to the wireless-PCB) I was even thinking of crimping the diode leads themselves into the pins of the Dupont connector (I have the parts and a crimper and all that), then on the other side (top in this pic) is where I would connect the 2x wires (one leading to all the buttons, the other leading to the full set of wires running to the wireless Padhack-PCB #2). 

yCoRzbYl.jpg

 

I was told it's OK to have the barrels/cylinders of the diodes touching each other, but I'll try to get the heat shrink down over them if there's room... yes, it's that tight in there for space!

Also want to note that both PCB's will SHARE THEIR GROUND still - these diodes are only going on the positive + lines.

 

 

Any and all advice is more than welcome! And thank you in advance!

 

Edited by Dochartaigh
new pic
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That is a lot of information, lets try and simplify things...

1) You have a built a control unit and need to connect its Joystick & Button inputs to both a Wired and Wireless Controller Board house within the unit

2) You need a way of Isolating / Switching the Power Source depending on whether or not the wired cable is connected

Is that correct?

Do you also need a way to switch off the Wireless board when not in use or does it go into battery saving low power mode like Wii controllers so there is not need to isolate the batteries?

 

What way to the inputs normally work, are they active Low (one contact connected to Ground) or active high (one contact connected to supply)?

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8 hours ago, Stephen Moss said:

That is a lot of information, lets try and simplify things...

1) You have a built a control unit and need to connect its Joystick & Button inputs to both a Wired and Wireless Controller Board house within the unit

2) You need a way of Isolating / Switching the Power Source depending on whether or not the wired cable is connected

Is that correct?

Do you also need a way to switch off the Wireless board when not in use or does it go into battery saving low power mode like Wii controllers so there is not need to isolate the batteries?

 

What way to the inputs normally work, are they active Low (one contact connected to Ground) or active high (one contact connected to supply)?

1) Correct!

 

 

2) Yes, the power of each needs to be independent from each other, but it is ALREADY setup that way! Here is how I use (power) each:

 

USING IT WIRED: The wireless board has most likely already gone into battery saving mode and turned off by itself, but I did install a physical switch to the wireless 2xAA battery pack which I'll flip to OFF. Then I simply plug in the USB cable of the Wired board to the console or PC computer and it's powered ON.

 

USING IT WIRELESS: The wired USB cable is already unplugged (thus OFF) when I'm using wireless... So all I do is turn the wireless battery pack on with a switch, and it automatically (wirelessly) pairs to my Xbox 360 console.

 

 

3) Sorry, but I do not know what this input/button setup is officially called, but it is the same on every one of my 12 different fightsticks. They work like this:

 

-- Every button has 2x wires connected to it: Positive, and Ground.

-- Every fightstick I own uses shared ground, so ALL the ground wires of EVERY button are connected together.

-- On my setup, with the 2x controller boards, I will note that they share the SAME ground BETWEEN BOTH boards - only the Positive wires go separately to each individual board (and the Positive lines to each board are further separated from each other by the proposed Diodes people told me to install on ALL the Positive lines).

 

For voltage, when the buttons are NOT pressed, they have 3.1v on the positive line. When I press the button the voltage goes to 0v.

 

 

If you need any more information please let me know, and THANK YOU for your help. I know this is a lot of information but it was a lot to go through to explain everything I could!

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Sounds like the button/joystick inputs are active low as I suspected, but I wanted to be sure.

 

Generally, logic inputs are regarded as being 0-0.4 volts for a Low input and 2.7-5V for a high input with a 5V supply, so using diodes would work with the wired board but you would need to use a Shottky barrier type as they have a forward voltage of 0.3-0.4V so that you would pull you input low enough to register as low on a 5V system.

Whereas a normal silicon diode has a forward voltage of 0.6-0.7V, so it is less certain that the button press may be correctly registered on a 5V system when using those, it may not be registered at all or registration may be random, however on a 3V system low of 0.3V may register (depending on the circuity as generally voltages are proportional) but a low of 0.7V is less likely to register.

 

So it you wanted to go the diode route I suggest using BAT85 diodes, but I cannot guarantee the 3V system would correctly register Low input of 0.3-0.4V and that is when the batteries are new, if the wireless board does not have anything to keep the voltage at 3V as the battery voltage drops then the threshold for a Low input would also drop with the battery voltage. For that reason if it was my project although it is more work/cost I personally would use some 74HC245 Tri-State bus transceivers drivers (run off 2-6V) some pull up resistors instead of diodes, although your need to power both those driving the wireless board inputs and those driving the wired board inputs at the same time so it will suck a little more from the batteries which drains them slightly faster during use and a lot faster if the wireless board went to sleep rather than that being turned off.

 

Using the transceivers was obvious, however unlike the simpler diode solution the need to keep all the transceivers powered make the power switching more difficult, I have not quite figured that bit out and the above voltages assume you are using 1.5V alkaline batteries for the wireless board. not rechargeable which tend to be 1.2-1.3V (2.4-2.6V supply) fully charged.

 

If you do not mind trying both approaches then try the simpler diode method first, if it was me I would wire the switches to a board with the diodes on and then plug the wireless & wire boards connection into that board rather than stuff the diodes into a connector as in the picture you provided but that is my personal choice.

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On 4/28/2022 at 4:47 AM, Stephen Moss said:

So it you wanted to go the diode route I suggest using BAT85 diodes, but I cannot guarantee the 3V system would correctly register Low input of 0.3-0.4V and that is when the batteries are new, if the wireless board does not have anything to keep the voltage at 3V as the battery voltage drops then the threshold for a Low input would also drop with the battery voltage. 

Thank you for all the info. Over the last few days I wired it all wired up and it seems to be working perfectly on bo wired and wireless (if it's slowly damaging either/both board because I did it wrong is still to be determined ;)

 

I used these Schottky Diodes, 20v, 1A, #1N5817-TPCT-ND. Specs say "Voltage - Forward (Vf) (Max) @ If: 450 mV @ 1 A".

 

The wireless board is using 2x AA (Eneloop's) rechargeable batteries, which output something like 2.4X volts. There seems to be something on the board raising the voltage since the buttons (unactivated) are at 3.2v, as is the power out of the headset jack (which weirdly enough I'm using that to power the cases light-up LED - other areas were pushing too much amperage making the LED too bright and I didn't have proper resistors on hand)... so it has to have a boost circuit or something.

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