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Atari/Legends Flashback Expansion Builds


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I believe the previous "community projects" for Nexus and the "Legends Ultimate Flashback" were helpful to quite a few people, just based on the numbers of downloads.   In particular, I have been happy with the ability to emulate 8-bit games on these systems, and the presentation of those games is (IMHO) better than just about any other device - with nice box art and a description for every game.  Still, I respect that AtariAge gets to decide what's posted here, and those threads were probably consuming a very large amount of cloud storage given the many archive files stored in them.

 

A couple inquiries have come my way about getting the more recent builds available again.  So, I've been thinking about something that might be more tolerable to AtariAge.   Maybe just make the builds available to be downloaded from some other source?  However, the truth is that the builds had almost reached their ultimate goals considering the limited power of those devices.  Traffic on those threads had been getting slow, so maybe there is not much additional interest?

 

If anyone has opinions/ideas or just wants to discuss the possibilities, let me know.

 

 

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On 5/15/2022 at 9:08 AM, rocketfan said:

If anyone has opinions/ideas or just wants to discuss the possibilities, let me know.

 

 

 

Maybe the community project topics were removed due to the reason you're surmising - i.e. the amount of file storage space being used to host the builds.  But I believe it may have been due to the game ROMs included in the builds.  While you and Draxxon (a.k.a. Slikatel) were immensely generous in producing, promoting, and educating everyone about the builds, you two committed the single biggest "crime" in the emulation scene - bundling ROMs with the emulation software.

 

You may possibly recall a question I asked in the LUFB topic a couple of months ago:  What are the bare minimum folders and files needed to run Sega Genesis / Megadrive ROMs?

 

If you're trying to resurrect the LUFB topic here on AtariAge and you want to post the builds here or an external site, then upload an ultimate final build without ROMs, and also without box art, and without any retro video clips (e.g. Atari commercials).  Basically a bare minimum set of folders and files to run all the consoles, where the user has to obtain the ROMs and box art on their own.  Such a barebones build would literally be only a few megabytes once compressed, and not be objectionable to the forum moderators if indeed file storage space was their concern as you hypothesize.

 

While you enjoy emulating 8-bit console games, I have zero interest in that era of gaming.  Once overclocked to 1.2 GHz clock speed, this LFB unit becomes something that I'm personally more interested in:  A 16-bit console emulation powerhouse!  And because of its smaller size, it's even more portable than a NES Classic / SNES Classic / Genesis Mini.  Definitely more convenient to pack along a LFB unit when travelling and staying in hotels, etc.

 

And not only does it play games, but it's also a competent era-appropriate media player.  Sure, you have to restrict yourself to videos that are medium-resolution (640 x 480 pixels) and no more than around 2,000 kbps bitrate.  But actually... a video with those specs is more like what you would've seen on 32-bit consoles in the 1990's.  On 16-bit consoles with CD-ROM capabilities, you would've seen video clips in the 320 x 200 pixel range.  So this LFB unit plays video that 16-bit Nintendon't and 16-bit Segacan't!

 

A permanent forum topic with community build file access is needed.  Not just for existing users to re-download in case they forgot to archive, but also for new users who are bound to come along in the years to come, especially since new LFB units are still being clearanced out by retailers, and new or used units are constantly being sold on eBay and classifieds sites.

 

Don't let the LFB fade into obscurity.  Keep the LUFB project alive and accessible!

 

ALSO:  Tell Draxxon / Slikatel to stay away.  My other hypothesis for the topic closure is that the forum moderators got tired of Draxxon covertly re-registering as a new user after getting banned.

 

 

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On 5/16/2022 at 4:08 PM, eLevy said:

What are the bare minimum folders and files needed to run Sega Genesis / Megadrive ROMs?

I think I even answered that original post!  Will see what I can do.  I agree with the idea that the framework files at least should be put up here if possible.  I can try to put just the framework parts here today.

 

To opine a little on the previous builds.  There's some craziness in the world - and hypocrisy - because multiple companies and individuals are making devices (like SD based multi-carts, the Analogue Pocket, on and on) which have the true sole purpose of allowing additional roms to be played with the knowledge that they are so readily available.  Is that somehow morally superior to providing the actual roms?  To me that's like selling automatic weapons, but saying "Hey - we don't make the ammunition".  If the builds don't include roms it just turns into multiplied time and energy for everyone to compose their own builds, scrape box art, and so on.  The average non-techie nostalgia-laden "Joe or Jill" may be left out if they don't have the time for all that tweaking.  The "Aliexpress Chinese" companies are making some good money from this by just saying "you can't come get us in China - here is a handheld or console with 20,000 roms included".  Some of the devices (Miyoo mini, almost anything from Anbernic) are fantastic, BTW.  On the morality side, I would probably feel different if I thought the original authors of the software in questions were getting ANYTHING from the sale of their work all these decades later.  Maybe for some of the stuff on Evercade the authors see something?

 

On the subject of Draxxon - trust me - if I could have held the guy back sometimes I would have.  LOL.  Whatever demons may be driving him, he did all of us a huge favor with all the work he put in on taking these projects so far.

Edited by rocketfan
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QI blame Disney.

https://online.yu.edu/cardozo/blog/disney-influence-copyright-law

 

If copyright lasted the original 28 years, we all could be playing SNES launch titles right now. Friends would be streaming everywhere (almost, first episode Sept. 1994),  rather than being exclusive to HBOMax for $450 million. We could all be reading The Witcher (not that anyone reads anymore, but Audible derivative works would be legal) or playing Advanced D&D modules (Urgh, Thaco...but 3.5 / Pathfinder wouldn't be available for a other decade).

 

Until Copyright gets overhauled,  emulator authors and devices need to adhere to the current court rulings, and they need to keep copyrighted games/artwork out of the packages. It sucks for the normies who don't want to spend time, and that will make the China bootleggers rich. There is always Archive.org and PirateBay until then.

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36 minutes ago, CapitanClassic said:

There is always Archive.org

Speaking of which, I just tried creating this.

 

 

That's not a complete build by any means, so don't try to use it as such.  It's the essential scripts that drive the Nexus builds, plus the Atari flashback FW files, and the "User Manual"  A lot of the information in that also applies in a general sense to the LUFB.

 

If it sticks for a week or so, I'll try putting up a more substantial build.  I have no idea what the limitations are.  Anyway, there is nothing in there that can't be found elsewhere already.

 

On 5/17/2022 at 2:05 AM, RichardB said:

I would very much like a chance to download at least a bare bones version of Nexus. 

Working on it - as you can see.

 

One thought along the lines of what @eLevy discussed above is to make a build which allows you to drop back and run "stock" by using the controller (that was in there at one time) and also includes a few home brew games in each section.  Recalbox is built like that with example home brew games for several systems.  Seems like that at least should be safe if placed someplace for posterity?

Edited by rocketfan
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I got impatient and just tried it.  It took some experimenting (.7Z was not working - failed on the last file multiple times).  Here is the last "slim build" for Nexus that was made.  1.5.1 because it incorporates the FW files in the /tools folder.

 

If anyone tries it please let me know if it works or not.  Remember - DO NOT use the wrong FW file for your device when updating to the custom FW.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, RichardB said:

Thank you!

You are welcome.  ?

On 5/16/2022 at 4:08 PM, eLevy said:

Definitely more convenient to pack along a LFB unit when travelling and staying in hotels, etc.

I have actually used the LFB like that on multiple trips.  Throw it in a bag with a 15 foot HDMI cord, and it's a much better time than trying to find something to watch on cable/satellite TV! 

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For @Tifany and any other interested parties, a Legends Flashback Build can be found here.  It's the so-called "family friendly" (mostly) version I put together for my relatives, because that's what I have handy.  This does have some new content vs. the last thing that was posted as described in the text file at the root of the build.

 

 

Again, please provide some feedback if someone tries it.  It's a lot easier to place it there, but still a LONG process, so I hope it came our right.

 

I don't think there will be frequent updates on these - just making these available for anyone who picks up a unit and wants to expand the content.  Anyway, in Summer I get really busy with cycling.

 

I am thinking very seriously about the idea of "core" functionality versions with only added shareware as mentioned above.  The idea is to make something "safe" that can be available for the long term and not at risk of being taken down and lost.

 

 

Edited by rocketfan
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21 hours ago, rocketfan said:

Here is the last "slim build" for Nexus that was made.

Fantastic, thank you very much.  Downloading now, and hopefully I will pluck up the courage to install it soon.  Got a week off work coming up at the end of the month so will try to fit it in then.

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On 5/21/2022 at 11:11 AM, CapitanClassic said:

QI blame Disney.

https://online.yu.edu/cardozo/blog/disney-influence-copyright-law

 

If copyright lasted the original 28 years, we all could be playing SNES launch titles right now. Friends would be streaming everywhere (almost, first episode Sept. 1994),  rather than being exclusive to HBOMax for $450 million. We could all be reading The Witcher (not that anyone reads anymore, but Audible derivative works would be legal) or playing Advanced D&D modules (Urgh, Thaco...but 3.5 / Pathfinder wouldn't be available for a other decade).

 

Until Copyright gets overhauled,  emulator authors and devices need to adhere to the current court rulings, and they need to keep copyrighted games/artwork out of the packages. It sucks for the normies who don't want to spend time, and that will make the China bootleggers rich. There is always Archive.org and PirateBay until then.

 

When it comes to copyrights, nobody is more strict than Disney.

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On 5/21/2022 at 9:27 AM, rocketfan said:

To opine a little on the previous builds.  There's some craziness in the world - and hypocrisy - because multiple companies and individuals are making devices (like SD based multi-carts, the Analogue Pocket, on and on) which have the true sole purpose of allowing additional roms to be played with the knowledge that they are so readily available.  Is that somehow morally superior to providing the actual roms?

 

It's a waste of time to think about moral superiority, because everyone has different standards of morality.

 

What's more important is LEGALITY.  Especially if you live in a part of the world that respects intellectual property (IP).  Internet culture is heavily influenced by laws.  When you and Draxxon (Slikatel) posted builds with tons of copyrighted game ROMs, you put the AtariAge admins under risk of forced website closure.  Even if the admins privately don't care about such illegal ROM sharing, they still have to actively take action whenever they see such violations take place.  Again, it's either take action or risk having their website shut down.

 

And talking about what Chinese companies are doing is futile.  That country doesn't respect IP.  If a company like Nintendo approached the Chinese government regarding infringement of their IP, that government probably wouldn't even bother responding to such a formal letter or email, never mind taking action.

 

Speaking of Nintendo, I'm sure you're aware that it's among the most aggressive of game companies when it comes to protecting their IP.  You can find plenty of online articles that show how they've pursued various websites and individuals over the past couple of decades.  It wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo or another company found your LUFB builds bundled with game ROMs on this website, and sent a cease & desist letter to the AtariAge admins.  But it also wouldn't surprise me if the AtariAge admins on their own just noticed your illegal builds and proactively took action to delete the forum topics altogether.

 

The lesson at the end of the day is this:  Play by the legal rules.  In our case, that means making the LUFB software directly available on AtariAge without the ROMs.

 

Now, I don't know about the legality of providing external links to ROMs hosted on archive.org as you've just done.  I suppose time will tell.  Let's see if this new forum topic stands the test of time, or if it forcibly becomes extinct like its predecessors...

 

 

 

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On 5/21/2022 at 9:27 AM, rocketfan said:

If the builds don't include roms it just turns into multiplied time and energy for everyone to compose their own builds, scrape box art, and so on.  The average non-techie nostalgia-laden "Joe or Jill" may be left out if they don't have the time for all that tweaking.  The "Aliexpress Chinese" companies are making some good money from this by just saying "you can't come get us in China - here is a handheld or console with 20,000 roms included".

 

I think you're overly concerned about delivering a near-plug-and-play solution to the masses, especially if you're not making any money from this venture.

 

If someone doesn't want to spend any time on adding ROMs to a mini unit, they can purchase any number of those inexpensive solutions from China that you've mentioned.  Like you said, those units come prepacked with thousands of game ROMs.

 

Don't try to compete with those China-solutions.  And don't even try to compete with the [NES Classic / SNES Classic / Genesis Mini] + Hakchi solutions either.  You'll lose if you try to.

 

Part of the charm of the LUFB project is the Do-It-Yourself (DIY) aspect.  The understanding is this: Pay even less for a new/used LFB unit than what you'd pay for other mini solutions, but be willing to put more elbow grease into customizing the system and adding the required ROMs.  Once you understand that as the project leader, you'll develop a better focus and won't tire yourself out needlessly.  You've already mentioned having a lack of time, experiencing upload problems, and other issues regarding this project.  Don't forget, without Draxxon (Slikatel), you're now a one-person non-team.

 

Make it easy on yourself.  This isn't a project for the masses to enjoy.  This is a quirky, but highly enjoyable little device for those who are willing to roll up their sleeves and bravely jump into an exciting rabbit hole!

 

 

 

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On 5/22/2022 at 10:42 AM, rocketfan said:

I don't think there will be frequent updates on these - just making these available for anyone who picks up a unit and wants to expand the content.  Anyway, in Summer I get really busy with cycling.

 

I am thinking very seriously about the idea of "core" functionality versions with only added shareware as mentioned above.  The idea is to make something "safe" that can be available for the long term and not at risk of being taken down and lost.

 

 

Once you unburden yourself from the need to add more and more game ROMs and the required corresponding box art, there shouldn't be a need to produce new updated builds.

 

A new build should emerge only when a new emulation core needs to be added.  But there probably aren't many, if any, that you and Draxxon (Slikatel) haven't already added.

 

A new build should also emerge only when a better core has been identified for a particular system.  It makes sense to replace an inferior core with a better one, after all.

 

To make it easier on yourself, adopt a higher threshold for admissibility.  For example, what 8-bit systems do most of the LUFB audience want to emulate on a consistent basis?  Ditto for 16-bit systems.  The keyword is consistent.  If there are some LUFB users that want to occasionally sample a plethora of obscure systems on a lazy afternoon, let them emulate those systems elsewhere.  LUFB shouldn't cater to those fleeting needs.

 

I'm not saying you should remove the cores for unpopular systems that are already in the latest build.  I'm saying you should think carefully before adding new cores for unpopular systems that nobody will use on a regular basis.  By adhering to that philosophy, you'll take enormous pressure off yourself.  Remember, don't try to be everything to everyone.

 

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Well, hopefully this stuff rates a "Mostly Harmless" entry in the Hitchhiker's Guide to Naughty Things!  Only a few hundred (dozen?) users at most world-wide.  The number of "One Sauce" users certainly dwarfs it.

 

On the subject of cores only I would get excited about:

 

 

Not only low-res, but monochrome as well  - :) !

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I had a chance to play around with this a bit this evening, things seem to be working well! So much cool stuff in there, going to take a while to paw through it all. The only hiccup I found was that Bobs version of Galaxian for the 7800 would not load, but there is no art either, so it may just be a placeholder.

 

Thanks again Rocketfan! You Rock!

 

 

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4 hours ago, rocketfan said:

 

On the subject of cores only I would get excited about:

 

 

Not only low-res, but monochrome as well  - :) !

 

 

You see, here's a chance for you to objectively evaluate the need to add a core.  YOU'RE excited about this core, but is anyone else?  If not, then you'd really be adding it only for yourself.

 

Don't get me wrong, if you've got bundles of energy and time, go ahead and knock yourself out by adding all the cores you possibly can, including the most obscure and unpopular of systems.

 

But like I said above, if you're stressed and tired, don't put pressure on yourself.

 

I'll also point out that the more build revisions you release, the more confusing it becomes.  Like what happened in the previous forum topics before they were deleted by the site admins.  Under those topics, we had a lovely initial couple of posts from Draxxon (Slikatel) that provided the custom firmware and the LUFB build.  But then it was followed by a whole bunch of build revisions and periodic cumulative builds.  It became a big tangled mess, where folks struggled to understand where to start, how to keep up with the latest revisions, and even which eventual fork to follow - Draxxon's or yours.

 

If you don't want to be perpetually consumed by this project, give some serious consideration to creating an ultimate barebones build - i.e. no ROMs, no box art, no cutesy retro videos of Atari commercials.  And resist the urge to constantly add new cores.  Maybe release one revision per year as an annual update if you really must.  Perhaps do it during the Christmas season to give it a special feeling, like giving it as a gift to loyal followers.

 

Quite frankly, there are already so many cores in the latest build, most of which won't ever be used by the vast majority of users.  So sit back and relax.  Let users find ROMs on their own to add.  Pop in every so often to answer technical support questions and to shoot the breeze with fellow LUFB users.  Enjoy instead of stress!

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Tifany said:

The only hiccup I found was that Bobs version of Galaxian for the 7800 would not load

Thanks for confirming the upload, and for pointing that out!  My build had some files missing (not just those - anywhere you see the blank artwork in the menu).  The Nexus 7800 folder is in a bit better shape, because it was noticed when I was prepping that version.

 

Here for that PacManPlus game (which is a most excellent Galaxian port) you can drop these into your a78 folder. 

 

Galaxian_A78.zip

5 hours ago, eLevy said:

It became a big tangled mess

It did get overly complicated with the incremental releases, that's for sure.  I possibly made things worse in a way because after the OP was gone I just put "my" builds out there, which did amount to forks of the project.  The idea of a fresh, untangled full release (and possibly fresh topic) per year was being discussed, but it never got that far.

 

For me this started as a way to get Atari 8bit systems emulated on the Flashbacks and I used my "Covid lockdown" energy on it.  I haven't been expending much real working time on this for a while.  However, I find that when I do get back into it - it's still a labor of love for me - meaning no burden at all!  ?  I like the idea of a core "home brew only" edition - I definitely will do that.

 

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4 hours ago, rocketfan said:

I like the idea of a core "home brew only" edition - I definitely will do that.

 

 

 

I'd recommend including only one or two homebrew games per system at most, with the sole purpose of serving as demos.  If you fall into the trap of trying to hunt down all homebrew games for all systems, then that type of completist mentality would just end up exhausting you.  And let's be honest, the vast majority of LUFB users wants to run commercially-produced games, not homebrews.  So don't waste your time and energy.

 

Be careful about homebrew games that infringe on IP.  If someone had programmed their own version of Mortal Kombat II from the ground up because they weren't satisfied with the official 16-bit console ports, does it mean you can distribute that homebrew ROM within a LUFB build?  I'm inclined to say NO.  Or if someone had programmed an unofficial sequel titled Mortal Kombat 2.5, is that OK?  I'm still inclined to say NO.  WHEN IN DOUBT - DO WITHOUT.  Just don't include such homebrews.

 

Even for homebrews that don't involve commercial IPs, are you really entitled to bundle it within a LUFB build?  What if the authors of certain homebrew games expressly prohibit you from bundling their games with emulators or other material?  Are you going to consult each game's webpage and/or consult directly with those homebrew authors first?  That could end up being a lot of work if your goal is to just even include one or two homebrew games per system.  Again, a lot of work for game ROMs that the vast majority of LUFB users don't care about.

 

Of course, you could just throw caution to the wind and include a bunch of homebrews without caring about the authors' wishes.  After all, you'd only be committing moral transgressions, not legal transgressions.

 

But why even include homebrew ROMs at all?  Why not maximize your success and sanity by doing what 99.9% of freeware emulator authors have done throughout the past few decades?  Namely, releasing emulators without any ROMs at all, not even demo ROMs.  No need to reinvent the wheel.  Do what they've done, and what they continue to do.  Do what works.

 

I get the impression that part of you wants to provide some type of hand-holding to your audience, hence the idea of including homebrew ROMs as an alternative to commercial ROMs.  Resist that urge.  Your audience is more capable than you think.  They can find their own ROMs in this day and age of search engine ease.  Save your energy for providing the occasional technical support to users in this forum.

 

If there are LFB owners out there that are too lazy to find their own ROMs, and/or too inept to learn how to make ROMs playable within LUFB, then the LUFB project isn't for them.  They can just play the stock games for their LFB unit.  You're not responsible for their success and happiness.

 

 

 

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I found time today to install the custom firmware on my FB9, and this seems to have worked as I can load games from the SD card.  However, I can't get Nexus to work at all.

 

I deleted the update file then put the contents of the Nexus Slim zip file on the card but the FB9 just boots up into the normal firmware.

 

I've tried a couple of 8GB micro SDHC cards (SanDisk and Kingston) in an adaptor, and used the proper SD formatter.  

 

No sure what I'm missing here.  The instructions included with Nexus say to install the official firmware first, which isn't mentioned on the custom firmware thread so I haven't done that.  Do I need to register with ATGames and install the OFW first?

 

 

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