RickyDean Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 @JJB I sent off the gerbers today for your APEDSK and my APEDSK with fingers today as well as my STM32 TI ROM GROM DISK sidecar. All gerbers were accepted and production is starting. I should have boards in about 2-3 weeks to play with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, RickyDean said: @JJB I sent off the gerbers today for your APEDSK and my APEDSK with fingers today as well as my STM32 TI ROM GROM DISK sidecar. All gerbers were accepted and production is starting. I should have boards in about 2-3 weeks to play with. what pcboard service are you using? and what cost is there, and min. quality required, and shipping from what country? i been looking at various options to do some small runs myself, need to find a proper service that is affordable shipping and time wise for Canada. -- i miss the days when i just could drive up to our factory area here in GTA and just get some boards made on the spot, there really no local pcboard production houses anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) PCBWay in China, they have many shipping options. PCBway.com. The two 4 layer Apedsk boards cost me 50 and some change for each. This consists of 5 boards of each or 10 something for each. and the STM32 interface was 25.97 for 5 pieces. Sometimes you can try adding 5 pieces at a time and get them for the the same price, like I've started with 5 then said I wanted 5 more and it was the same price, but it was for smaller boards like the Pico sidecar board. Then shipping is 20+ dollars with DHL, but that is to the states, unknown Canada. Tkas about 2-3 weeks for them to get here after production. Bleow is the pricing for this order 15 boards, 5 each. The 153.60 included shipping and taxes. Edited March 28 by RickyDean spelling, added content 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 6 minutes ago, RickyDean said: PCBWay in China, they have many shipping options. PCBway.com. The two 4 layer Apedsk boards cost me 50 and some change for each. This consists of 5 boards of each or 10 something for each. and the STM32 interface was 25.97 for 5 pieces. Sometimes you can try adding 5 pieces at a time and get them for the the same price, like I've started with 5 then said I wanted 5 more and it was the same price, but it was for smaller boards like the Pico sidecar board. Then shipping is 20+ dollars with DHL, but that is to the states, unknown Canada. Tkas about 2-3 weeks for them to get here after production. Bleow is the pricing for this order 15 boards, 5 each. The 153.60 included shipping and taxes. not bad only around $10 a piece. - thanks. - i will look into it, once I have my own gerber designs ready to use that i want to test builds on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 FYI I use JCLPCB and they charge $5 (New Zealand $ that is) per PCB. Minimum volume is 5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) I received my Apedsk PCB' yesterday. Had a little snafu as I thought I had ordered my STM32 rom grom floppy disk boards to. But it seems that I gave the same gerber for those files as the Apedsk that I added the finger pads to, so I have some extra. If anyone is interested, PM me for either the original Apedsk PCB board or the one with added fingers. I will be keeping 2 of each, so of the orignal Apedsk PCB's I will have 4 for sale, dark blue in color and I will have 4 of the modified Apedsk PCB's, red in color and 9 dark blue in color. These will run $8.00 each, shipped via first class mail, USPS. Below is what they'll look like, only a darker looking blue than the picture suggest, red one not shown. P.S. The fingers are not connected, you will have to do that manually. But I added them for another mounting option. Edited April 8 by RickyDean 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 13 hours ago, RickyDean said: I received my Apedsk PCB' yesterday. Had a little snafu as I thought I had ordered my STM32 rom grom floppy disk boards to. But it seems that I gave the same gerber for those files as the Apedsk that I added the finger pads to, so I have some extra. If anyone is interested, PM me for either the original Apedsk PCB board or the one with added fingers. I will be keeping 2 of each, so of the orignal Apedsk PCB's I will have 4 for sale, dark blue in color and I will have 4 of the modified Apedsk PCB's, red in color and 9 dark blue in color. These will run $8.00 each, shipped via first class mail, USPS. Below is what they'll look like, only a darker looking blue than the picture suggest, red one not shown. P.S. The fingers are not connected, you will have to do that manually. But I added them for another mounting option. Since I decided to buy one of the extra PCBoards from Ricky Dean that he was so kind to offer, I will be building one of these shortly, and looking forward to seeing how it works, and what more might be possible with this design, I read thru the Github by @JJB and looked at the two PDF's in regard to building it, is there a full parts list to grab everything from a place like Mouser which would be best for me with their low cost to shipping to Canada. -- Any new hints or suggestions or pitfalls not on the Github that I should take notice of? -- Has there been any work on making usage of the extra 24k of ram space for larger DSR? - I didn't come across it yet but in regard to the CRU base which one does it use the >1100 one? -- And is it possible to use other CRU bases? - Or even I wonder somehow to assign a different CRU base to each 8k DSR, that could be a way of using the other 24k of space. -- I will need to study this more, I am just thinking about it, and it will be a couple of weeks at least before I get all the needed parts in to build it anyway. -- It would be nice still to be able to use the PEB as well, but I guess that could be done via a special adapter turning this on its side maybe, since I getting the ones with the added fingers on it from Ricky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 To answer some of the questions: - Has there been any work on making usage of the extra 24k of ram space for larger DSR? Currently the only option is to load different DSR's from SD which is a rather cumbersome way of implementing larger DSR's; it was primarily meant to support developing and testing your own DSR's. The better way to do it would be to load a larger DSR at powerup / reset and add a CALL to switch DSR's (something like CALL SDSR([1,2,3,4]). The Arduino side would then handle copying in the right 8K of DSR in the >4000->5000 memory space. Depending on the DSR you might want to save the current config if your DSR supports writing to >4000->5000 (for example the "FD1771" registers in the current APEDSK99 DSR). - I didn't come across it yet but in regard to the CRU base which one does it use the >1100 one? And is it possible to use other CRU bases? Or even I wonder somehow to assign a different CRU base to each 8k DSR, that could be a way of using the other 24k of space. APEDSK99 is meant to be a cheap and easy way to get back into the TI hobby, i.e. no initial need to hunt down (and ship) a loaded PEB. As the only connected peripheral (besides a Speech Synthesizer) it doesn't need the CRU base selection mechanism. In other words, it is always selected ("SBO 0") and visible on every CRU base. The only CRU-related check is made in the DSR powerup routine: only if R12 = >1000 (first peripheral) it is executed otherwise it would execute for every peripheral check (thanks Fred). - It would be nice still to be able to use the PEB as well See above, concurrent use is not going to work unless some form of CRU selection is added. If you manage to connect the PEB, you would need to disable APEDSK99. There are several ways to this, with the easiest way unlatching the SD card and pressing reset. APEDSK99 will detach itself from the IO bus and flash an error. On a side note, I am running into this very same problem. I am building a stand-alone Myarc and am using APEDSK99 as the only device. It boots fine into MDOS but then the fun stops. The MDOS DSR seems to write to the >4000->5000 area frequently (I guess for housekeeping etc) and this messes up the APEDSK99 DSR (as it is in RAM and always on). I am now adding extra selection logic to only allow writes in the >5FFx memory area (the "FD1771" registers). Thinking a bit further, I am adding this selection logic on an existing small interface board between the APEDSK99 44-pins and the Myarc 60-pins connector. It might be a better idea to actually add CRU selection logic to this board; that way you can even stick APEDSK99 in a PEB 🙂 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+InsaneMultitasker Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 2 minutes ago, JJB said: I am building a stand-alone Myarc and am using APEDSK99 as the only device. It boots fine into MDOS but then the fun stops. The MDOS DSR seems to write to the >4000->5000 area frequently (I guess for housekeeping etc) and this messes up the APEDSK99 DSR (as it is in RAM and always on). I am now adding extra selection logic to only allow writes in the >5FFx memory area (the "FD1771" registers). Nice work to get this far! FYI, the extra logic will help but it won't resolve the issue. What you are experiencing is almost certainly the side effect of not fully decoding the higher-order address lines. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 (edited) 13 minutes ago, InsaneMultitasker said: Nice work to get this far! FYI, the extra logic will help but it won't resolve the issue. What you are experiencing is almost certainly the side effect of not fully decoding the higher-order address lines. Thanks! It is certainly interesting. Would you care to elaborate on the decoding? APEDSK99 is still pretty close to a standard TI disk controller and the latter seems to work fine with a Myarc. I am probably missing something fundamental here 🙂 FYI the APEDSK99 GAL does decode A0-A3 to only respond to >4000 - >5000 access so if that is what you were referring to I should be good. Edited April 8 by JJB spelling, additional info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 The TI cards actually decode AMA/AMB/AMC and only activate the card when all are 1. Note this address bit order (by TI): AMC | AMB | AMA | A0 | A1 | A2 | ... | A15 Already had a look here? https://www.ninerpedia.org/wiki/Geneve_paged_memory_organization 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 Great thanks, makes sense now. I did discover that wiki, very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 I was searching for the IS61C512 64k x 8 Sram that @JJB had designed into this sidecar design and found them on Ebay for around $10 apiece, but after looking at other options on ebay and comparing datasheets I bought 10 pieces of IS61C1024 128k x 8 Sram for a little over $30 bucks. I beleive that these will work and maybe with additional decoding, it might give a more useful memory map. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 On 4/7/2024 at 11:38 PM, RickyDean said: I received my Apedsk PCB' yesterday. Had a little snafu as I thought I had ordered my STM32 rom grom floppy disk boards to. But it seems that I gave the same gerber for those files as the Apedsk that I added the finger pads to, so I have some extra. If anyone is interested, PM me for either the original Apedsk PCB board or the one with added fingers. I will be keeping 2 of each, so of the orignal Apedsk PCB's I will have 4 for sale, dark blue in color and I will have 4 of the modified Apedsk PCB's, red in color and 9 dark blue in color. These will run $8.00 each, shipped via first class mail, USPS. Below is what they'll look like, only a darker looking blue than the picture suggest, red one not shown. P.S. The fingers are not connected, you will have to do that manually. But I added them for another mounting option. Well this morning I got a jolt. I went in expecting to ship another of these to another canadian friend. I told the postal clerk the same as I told the postal clerk on Monday, that I wanted to ship this international first class and that clerk allowed it to be so. But today I found out that only paper that was able to run through the machines could be shipped this way, and my little envelope was considered a small package, so had to be shipped with a custom form and cost $17.00 postage for a 1 oz letter. For my canadian friend who was sent one on Monday, the clerk stated it might not make it, due to insufficent postage. FYI. There will be no more shipped outside of the US, unless the individual is willing to pay the extra postage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 minutes ago, RickyDean said: Well this morning I got a jolt. I went in expecting to ship another of these to another canadian friend. I told the postal clerk the same as I told the postal clerk on Monday, that I wanted to ship this international first class and that clerk allowed it to be so. But today I found out that only paper that was able to run through the machines could be shipped this way, and my little envelope was considered a small package, so had to be shipped with a custom form and cost $17.00 postage for a 1 oz letter. For my canadian friend who was sent one on Monday, the clerk stated it might not make it, due to insufficent postage. FYI. There will be no more shipped outside of the US, unless the individual is willing to pay the extra postage. I have no problem paying for extra postage, hopefully it arrives, we will see what happens. Maybe we can do another board if you have extras just in case. Let me know your thoughts on that. But yeah sadly, shipping international is iffy when it comes to bare PCboards, I never got my bare ide boards I ordered from the original designer years ago even with tracking, but I did get the bare 4000 horizon board from Jim even in Dominican Republic so you never know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 I have had occasional success sending a small board (or pair of boards) through by taping them inside a thin piece of folded cardboard (like used to protect comic books in a sleeve). Sometimes that works and sometimes not. I just say it is a birthday card. . .as a lot of those have weird lumps inside when they have folded pop-ups in them. Once they get into the system, I haven't had any problems yet, but one never knows. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOME AUTOMATION Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Posted April 11 Author Share Posted April 11 PS the C512 version can be found cheaper on Ebay if you buy 3pcs at once, search on: 3PCS NEW IS61C512-20M ISSI 9521+ DIP-32 The seller I have used multiple times is jiali20160, so far only the genuine article. BTW if you need any parts, I do still have some including PCB's and edge connectors. The latter can usually only be bought in multiples, happy to send individual items. Now, I do live in New Zealand so shipping is not overly cheap; happy to enquire so you can compare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 hour ago, JJB said: PS the C512 version can be found cheaper on Ebay if you buy 3pcs at once, search on: 3PCS NEW IS61C512-20M ISSI 9521+ DIP-32 The seller I have used multiple times is jiali20160, so far only the genuine article. BTW if you need any parts, I do still have some including PCB's and edge connectors. The latter can usually only be bought in multiples, happy to send individual items. Now, I do live in New Zealand so shipping is not overly cheap; happy to enquire so you can compare. BTW, there is another pin-compatible skinny-DIP chip out there that should also work: UM61512. I have a few hundred of these handy--and since I have one of the bare boards @RickyDean had made, I will test them to verify the theory once I get some hobby time to assemble things (and once I acquire appropriate stocks of the other necessary parts). Oh yeah, and they aren't too expensive either. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 @JJB, I have been assembling one of the boards. Do you have a BOM and a list describing the values of the resistors and which location they get soldered to? Also I use 32 pin machine tool socket SIP strips to mount the 61512 or in my case 611024 and they mount well without having to bend the legs of the SRAM very much. I just need to know the values of the 5 resistors and where they mount on the board in the 5 locations. I see the capacitors are 104 caps on one of the photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Posted April 14 Author Share Posted April 14 (edited) The BOM (Excel file) is saved in the KICAD folder on GitHub. From the BOM: APEDSK-AU-BOM.xlsx Edited April 14 by JJB added Excel BOM attachment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 (edited) 4 hours ago, JJB said: The BOM (Excel file) is saved in the KICAD folder on GitHub. From the BOM: APEDSK-AU-BOM.xlsx 9.85 kB · 0 downloads Okay, thanks. I actually don't have enough experience with Kicad to know that there may be a BOM file in there somewhere. You have taught me something. Edited April 14 by RickyDean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) Here are some pictures of my first APEDSK99, red in color. I haven't gotten the UNO yet because for some reason when I ordered some UNO copies from AliExpress they were shipped out then returned to the vendor before they even left for America. The vendor wasn't to helpfull, didn't seem to understand my questions in regard to why did they get returned. I cancelled the order and reordered from Ali. We'll see. Notice the wires connecting the fingers to the via's, I put everything else together and it made it difficult to add the wires to the top of the board, next time I'll do the wires before placing the sockets and risers. I tested the IS61024 as a 61512 on my minipro and it passed so it is compatible, and maybe later the additional memory can be utilized somehow. Edited April 15 by RickyDean spelling, added content 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 That looks great although the finger attachment seems rather labor intensive Putting everything in (quality) sockets I can appreciate. The Ethernet shield seems to have those damn short connecting pins too but I guess it doesn't interfere with the underlying real estate? How did you customize the Ethernet shield? I have since found an even easier method with tinned wire and shrink tubing; it's not in the construction doc yet, will update it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyDean Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) @JJB the pins on the odd side were actually quite easy to put in place, and if the risers and sockets had not been there, the even side or top would not have been much worse. With the fingers, the 4 GND pins on the bottom odd side are already connected to the ground plane so those can be omitted as seen in the photo. I don't think, if it's done differently that it would be much more labor intensive than the stand up pins on your design. The hardest part of the top pins, was laying a length of shrink tubing cut length wise and clamping it with a few pins to hold it in place, so I could solder the rest, to prevent shorting the bottom pins. The shield clears everything and stands about 2mm out of the risers and I have not added anything to it yet as I haven't read through your documents yet. It does have a six pin ICSP on next to the micro SD slot that I may have to remove and place an angled connector there. Also two of the UNO's I am getting are supposed to have WIFI ansd I believe Bluetooth, so it's be interesting to see if these can be utilized in the process. Edited April 15 by RickyDean spelling, added content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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