Some just never learn, or maybe just not capable to understand ..

[mikro]

Ever heard of Gotek? It also handles image files. On USB sticks, some variants on SD cards. And those sticks/cards can be even FAT32-formatted.

 

How do you think Gotek manages to do it? It has a freaking integrated F16/F32 driver inside it.

 

ACSI2STM does the same.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

?   So, some HW floppy emulator handles image files ? Huh ! I though that people need to use photos of floppies in JPG format with them ?

 

This has gone in total ridicule .  To add to thread title:  some just newer will admit that are wrong.

Mixing things, do not read what is written - and on that ACSI2STM pages writes that integrated driver mode, when is activated means deactivation of auto boot on Atari - so it will even not start driver then with Atari . That integrated drivers purpose is something other.

As in case of Gotek.  But how adding images goes ? Connect card, Pen drive to some computer - and what the Hell - it will handle filesystem on card.

Then, FAT16 used widely on diverse computers is not same as TOS FAT16 - and I wrote about it too multiple times. Integrated driver in those devices does not support TOS (AHDI) type FAT16. It supports regular FAT16 with 512 byte long sectors only. TOS FAT16 works with diverse sector sizes - may go up to 16 KB in case of Falcon .

 

I worked on STX (Pasti) image support on HxC, more than 10 years ago. And have here Gotek in 1 STE . And I'm done with explaining well known facts to someone who is such unfair, so poor in making judgements, conclusions, not seeing obvious .  Will not reply more, really waste of time. Believe whatever you want. I write here about things I know well. But who cares about that fact. Most important is to 'win' in discussion.

For me most important is to improve my knowledge, to do something useful.

 

[mikro]

1 hour ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

when is activated means deactivation of auto boot on Atari - so it will even not start driver then with Atari . That integrated drivers purpose is something other.

Nobody has disputed that.

1 hour ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Integrated driver in those devices does not support TOS (AHDI) type FAT16.

Nobody has ever claimed that it does.

 

That's your problem here: a guy makes a statement that he finds the ACSI2STM better because it has a nice feature, an integrated driver to handle FAT16-formatted SD cards. Not a word about Atari, sectors, booting, AHDI, ... just a guy who likes that feature, presumably from his personal experience.

 

And then comes Ppera, creates a separate thread on a separate forum about people who never learn or maybe are just not capable to understand, proving his superiority once again! With bonus bucket of insults, talking down anyone who dares to participate and of course, lecturing us that you are the only knowledgeable person in the room because you have done this and that, oh my. And for what? For assuming that some user on some forum meant that ACSI2STM provides a built-in Atari compatible driver, even if there is zero evidence of that and further discussion never mentioned any of it.

 

If you don't see anything wrong with this attitude then it says a lot about yourself and your capability to understand.

[+CyranoJ]

19 hours ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

What community is such where someone talks loudly (capital letters) about stealing code ? Without any proof. And did someone reacted on it ?

Nope. Not reacting on blatant lies about my SW on D-Bug site. 

We don't have to keep bringing it up, because you do.

 

You really should be an archiologist because one thing you truly are expert level at is at digging up the past.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

My last post here.  Those who like to talk about what they have no real knowledge, to like to hate, and so on - just continue.  I have better things to do instead trying to teach those who never lea... 

 

So, again the original text: ""Also, a way better hard driver emulator for ST is ACSI2STM (it enables you to use generic FAT-16 formatted SD cards, it has an integrated driver): ... " .

So, it says that enables you to use 'generic FAT-16' formatted SD cards.  Aside from bad formulation it means (in that context) that Atari people can use generic FAT16 partitions.  And what they are ?  Generic - common, most used - and that's what we usually call DOS type FAT16 . And it is still supported with all popular modern OS - Win, MacOS, Linux .  Well, things are that there was made Atari ST SW some 25 years ago, what 'enabled' usage of generic FAT16 with Atari ST, Falcon - it is called BIGDOS . Myself used it for shorter time too.  Well made, but it consumes extra RAM, some SW don't like it ... 

Now, as that text is composed, it just implies that 'integrated driver' will take care about handling those generic FAT-16 SD cards .  What means that users of that device can put SD card with generic FAT16 in it, connect to ST and will be able to work with it.   And that is just not the case.

Misleading - like that who wrote it works in sales - such text is typical in adverts, product presentation. They like to say 'LED TV' - for LCD TVs with LED backlight. While there were already present displays with pure LED technology - mostly for usage in open areas (outdoor), because only LED display was able to give enough light intensity and contrast. Of course, there are worse misleading in many adverts.

 

The reality: ACSI2STM has some kind of integrated driver, but it is not for generic FAT16, but for TOS (AHDI) FAT16 . Which is not compatible with generic one, and therefore simple data transfers with modern computers will not work.  Designer of that device even talks that partitions over 256 MB size are not supported by Linux, because on it "logical sectors of 8KB are incompatible with Linux" - yeah, very bad formulation. Could say at least Linux hard disk driver or something like that.  Well, reality is that in latest some 15 years TOS (AHDI) type partition support in Linux is not present.  I guess by some user can select that it will be compiled in kernel - so needs to compile it self.  I used some Linux distros with TOS partition support about 20 years ago, and it was present in binary versions.  And as I remember larger partitions worked fine too.  Well, since I have solution called TOS/DOS compatible partitions Linux TOS support was not needed anymore - at 2012 .

 

Then, integrated driver in ACSI2STM can work only with TOS type FAT16, it has even integrated 'formatter' - what would rather call partitioner - and it is little limited - no extended partitions possible.   But as said, data transfer with modern computers then is limited. Well, maybe not totally, I have SW for Windows where it is possible - not really for transferring lot of files at once ...    http://atari.8bitchip.info/drimus.php

 

What OS versions for Atari ST support 'generic FAT16' ?   First was MagiC .  Then EmuTOS . And again bragging: my iTOS versions of 1.04, 1.62, combo of 1.04 and 2.06 (2.14), combo of 1.62 and 2.06 (2.16) .  Good thing is that they still support TOS (AHDI) type FAT16 too .

 

And for the end: benefits of 'generic FAT16' in compare to TOS FAT16 (in reality it is rather FAT15) : no need for so called large sectors. They are 512 bytes at any partition size. And that means more efficient and little faster work. Max file count with TOS type is about 32500, with gen. FAT16 it is about 65000, and so called slack is smaller because it - in other words better space usage (thanks to smaller cluster size at same partition size).  And the best for very end:  no need for extra buffer blocks. 2 KB what TOS sets at start (so much is needed for work with floppies) is enough for gen. FAT16 partitions  too (max 1 GB size with my iTOS) . Normally (regular TOS versions) min buffer size for TOS type partitions up to 512 MB is 32 KB .

 

[mikro]

1 hour ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Aside from bad formulation it means (in that context) that Atari people can use generic FAT16 partitions.

What it meant is only your assumption.

1 hour ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

What means that users of that device can put SD card with generic FAT16 in it, connect to ST and will be able to work with it.   And that is just not the case.

And it is again only your assumption that it was meant like that.

 

So based on these two assumptions you've decided to insult a random guy on a random forum and the whole Atari world taking with it. Before talking to him, clarifying his intentions/formulations, nothing. Just insults and insults.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

And something really hmm... in one book (can buy it at Ebay if want ? ) :

https://archive.org/stream/Atari_ST-Disk_Drives-Inside_and_Out/Atari_ST-Disk_Drives-Inside_and_Out_djvu.txt

Quote from the book (someone sent me that boot sector part in e-mail) :

" This makes it possible for the Atari ST to read IBM PC diskettes. However, the ST cannot do any more than read these files,

because the data distribution on the diskette is organized differently on the PC. "

Well, above is not only incorrect but absurd. If data distribution on diskette is different on PC (floppy format used by PC, better said) then read worked not too ? 

And before silly posts here: my intention is not to insult. But when see so big shallowness really can not be not shocked . What they smoked when wrote that part ?

And yes, I'm expert about this too. I wrote different floppy utilities for Atari ST and for Windows.

 

Imagine following:  200 years from now some getting interested for early home, PC computers. Then find this book (online of course).  What can they think reading such nonsense ? 

 

The facts: Atari ST floppy format selected by DRI and Atari is PC DOS compatible. With good intention - to make data exchange easy. There was little error in early TOS version's formatter, but people could use format programs, which produced correct format floppies, well accessible with PC, DOS . Myself wrote such.

 

Should I contact book authors before writing this ? I don't think so. This is called freedom of speech. And my time is limited. And I have very bad experiences with trying to explain errors to people thinking that they are so special ... Usual reaction is heavy arrogance, writing to me that I'm now on their block list ?  They can block my messages. Can they prevent logic, facts ?

 

And to the end: if people would care more about diverse misinterpretations situation now would be much better. They say that this inflation is because war. Sure, before it was no inflation (same level as quoted text from book) ... 

It is important to know things well, being accurate as much possible. Yeah, it is hard, there are often too many details. Is there other way ?

[Keatah]

17 minutes ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

Is there other way ?

With computers? No. There cannot be any other way. They're dumber'n a bag of sand. Devil in the details as we say.