Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[Shawn]

7 hours ago, mr_me said:

 Still, it does explain that new money would be used to process refunds which had been delayed, and they were looking for new funding.

 

So by all reasonable logic, they need "new money" from Peter to "process" the "refund" for Paul?

[Razzie.P]

41 minutes ago, Shawn said:

 

So by all reasonable logic, they need "new money" from Peter to "process" the "refund" for Paul?

The "Peter" they're hoping to find...

 

 

[roots.genoa]

8 hours ago, 5-11under said:

Do you offer refunds?

Just kidding... I'm sure the post is coming, and 3B people will finally get to enjoy it... except for the haters who want a refund - it's not for you.

Do you have any previews of the post? Colors? Woodgrain? Exclusive words included in the post? Can I get a boxed version of the words? Are the sentences certified? Do you have enough supply of letters to put together the post? I hear they're more expensive these days.

Well, as you already know, COVID has made things harder for me. It's especially more difficult to find good words these days. I could of course use words already at my disposal but they would be more complex words that you may not understand and enjoy. So while you'll have to wait longer to read my post, I think it will be worth it because that will make my post even better. You know, as my good friend Vladimir Putin said, a rushed post will be forever bad while a delayed post can be eventually good.

 

That being said, I can't tell you anything about it, except that I'm confident you'll love it!! Are your parents still alive? What if I tell you that by next Christmas, you'll be able to enjoy my post with them. Wouldn't that be something?™️

[roots.genoa]

3 hours ago, Shawn said:

 

So by all reasonable logic, they need "new money" from Peter to "process" the "refund" for Paul?

Which is basically a Ponzi scheme. 🙂

[MattPilz]

The biggest upset with the refund failure is how many years it was argued that pre-ordering an Amico was the opposite of backing a Kickstarter. By the time they began accepting pre-orders it was stated that the console was on the launch pad and had a guaranteed cancel-anytime system with absolute zero risk. Compared to crowdfunding campaigns that directly tell you there's no guarantee and no mandatory refunds.

 

Tommy:  The harsh reality is that crowdfunding something is never a guarantee that you'll even get the product.  It's putting money into someone's dream in hopes that it will come out knowing you helped to be a part of it.  Very different than putting down money for a "pre-order".  Any crowdfunding campaign has risks.

 

At one point he likened the Amico pre-order system to a person pudding down fully refundable money for a new Ferrari.

 

Quote

p.s.  It's not crowdfunding.  Crowdfunding is taking 100% of someone's money up front before they even start the project.  Atari VCS is a perfect example of this.  

Let me give folks another example... there is a HUGE waiting list for new model Ferrari's.  Even before people get a chance to test drive them.  They may see some specs, some pics... but they scurry to their local dealer to put down HUGE amounts of money (that is 100% refundable) in order to get a low edition number of the car (or in certain cases "Special Editions".  We're doing the same.

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by MattPilz

[rayik]

47 minutes ago, MattPilz said:

The biggest upset with the refund failure is how many years it was argued that pre-ordering an Amico was the opposite of backing a Kickstarter. By the time they began accepting pre-orders it was stated that the console was on the launch pad and had a guaranteed cancel-anytime system with absolute zero risk. Compared to crowdfunding campaigns that directly tell you there's no guarantee and no mandatory refunds.

 

Tommy:  The harsh reality is that crowdfunding something is never a guarantee that you'll even get the product.  It's putting money into someone's dream in hopes that it will come out knowing you helped to be a part of it.  Very different than putting down money for a "pre-order".  Any crowdfunding campaign has risks.

 

At one point he likened the Amico pre-order system to a person pudding down fully refundable money for a new Ferrari.

 

  Quote

p.s.  It's not crowdfunding.  Crowdfunding is taking 100% of someone's money up front before they even start the project.  Atari VCS is a perfect example of this.  

Let me give folks another example... there is a HUGE waiting list for new model Ferrari's.  Even before people get a chance to test drive them.  They may see some specs, some pics... but they scurry to their local dealer to put down HUGE amounts of money (that is 100% refundable) in order to get a low edition number of the car (or in certain cases "Special Editions".  We're doing the same.

 

 

Wonder if that is because Ferrari actually makes a product?

[rayik]

Phil Adams stated in this video the $100 pre-order deposit is fully refundable at any time.  He is very clear in this video.  He did not attach any conditions (such as IE needs to raise more money before you can get a requested refund; or that you will have to dispute CC or Paypal charge to get a refund). 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by rayik

[Flojomojo]

@MattPilz Are you serious? That clown compared his magic footbath begging to Ferrari pre-sales?

 

Was there any end to your delusion, @Tommy Tallarico?????

[Matt_B]

1 hour ago, rayik said:

Phil Adams stated in this video the $100 pre-order deposit is fully refundable at any time.  He is very clear in this video.  He did not attach any conditions (such as IE needs to raise more money before you can get a requested refund; or that you will have to dispute CC or Paypal charge to get a refund).

It's all a bit reminiscent of the Vega Plus. They assured everyone that the crowdfunding money was 'ring fenced.'

 

The reality was that it had mostly been spent on other things and only a few people who kicked up enough of a fuss got refunds, a few units cobbled together from production samples were shipped out to selected shills, and everyone else got nothing.

 

That's the direction I've seen the Amico heading in since the StartEngine campaign failed. It's just a matter of time.

[Shawn]

4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Which is basically a Ponzi scheme. 🙂

 

Bingo!

 

[MrBeefy]

9 hours ago, zapzapzac said:

Tommy is a liar, and you are a liar.

And this is true.

7 hours ago, Shawn said:

So by all reasonable logic, they need "new money" from Peter to "process" the "refund" for Paul?

By all reasonable logic 100% fully refundable at anytime does not mean delayed refunds. It means if I ask now I get it now.

4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Well, as you already know, COVID has made things harder for me. It's especially more difficult to find good words these days. I could of course use words already at my disposal but they would be more complex words that you may not understand and enjoy. So while you'll have to wait longer to read my post, I think it will be worth it because that will make my post even better. You know, as my good friend Vladimir Putin said, a rushed post will be forever bad while a delayed post can be eventually good.

 

That being said, I can't tell you anything about it, except that I'm confident you'll love it!! Are your parents still alive? What if I tell you that by next Christmas, you'll be able to enjoy my post with them. Wouldn't that be something?™️

OMG I wish I could like this more than once. 🤣🤣🤣

 

What is the status of certs on your post?

7 minutes ago, Shawn said:

 

Bingo!

 

The correct Amico phrasing is, NAILED IT!

2 hours ago, rayik said:

Phil Adams stated in this video the $100 pre-order deposit is fully refundable at any time.  He is very clear in this video.  He did not attach any conditions (such as IE needs to raise more money before you can get a requested refund; or that you will have to dispute CC or Paypal charge to get a refund). 

 

 

 

Yup, Phil is just as big of a liar as Tommy. He just isn't as manic as Tommy.

 

It also ignores they've had additional revenue come in. They had a deal with Evercade and put some games on Holoride.

 

Iirc the preorders through PayPal went to Tommy's account. Any preorders monies left are going to probably be making a nice trip to Chile soon. 

 

I wonder how many band members he will try to frame for a crime he committed on this next trip? 

1 hour ago, Flojomojo said:

@MattPilz Are you serious? That clown compared his magic footbath begging to Ferrari pre-sales?

 

Was there any end to your delusion, @Tommy Tallarico?????

His Yankee HoF status suggests he is of sound mind. They don't hand those out to anyone of unsound mind. Also he was on MTV Crinlbs multiple times. They don't have deluded people on MTV Cribs.

[Tommy2D]

Is @Cebus Capucinis and/or some other litigators lurking about? 

 

I just saw a headline that Elon Musk somehow won his lawsuit based on his false "Funding Secured" tweet. I read an article predicting that he was very likely to loose, in part because the Judge had already ruled that his tweets were false and reckless but he somehow wound up with a unanimous jury verdict.  He did have to pay fines to the SEC, as part of a separate settlement, so he didn't get away "Scott free" but I'm still surprised by the trial. 

 

It does remind me a bit of some of Tommy T's wishful thinking statements like: "We're on the launch pad.", although I'd argue that Musk's comments were worse as they were less ambiguous. 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/feb/03/elon-musk-tesla-investors-lawsuit-twitter 

 

I realize that different federal circuits probably have different precedents for what constitutes fraud, etc. but it's another reminder that it's pretty tough to hold someone accountable for their public statements. It's also a reminder that just because someone is a millionaire or a mega-billionaire, it doesn't make them automatically credible.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Tommy2D

[Pink]

I noticed something just now. I am currently watching a Twitch streamer play Spiderman on the PS1 as I typr this out. Also this Twitch streamer said at the beginning of his stream that this game uses the same engine as Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.

 

As we all know, Tommy's lead designer Joey Kuras   Tommy himself designed ALL the sound effects   Tommy was the audio director on Tony Hawk's Pro Skater back in the day. We got Tommy on video saying this, and the clip of him saying it made it into Hbomberguy's OOF video.

 

And we also know for sure Tommy isn't lying because @mr_me himself has assured us that everything and anything Tommy has ever said along with everything all the other Intellivision Entertainment employees have said over the past several years since this Amico dumpster fire began is a 100% irrefutable, iron-clad fact, despite all the evidence that we have to the contrary along with Hbomberguy's OOF video that now has over 5 million views & still counting. And on top of that DJC himself said that Hbomberguy's video is nothing but a bunch of inaccurate misinformation that he himself could easily debunk & refute (Although DJC said he won't do that, for whatever reason) We can trust DJC and be certain that he isn't lying or talking out of his butt because of his relationship with Intellivision and because he's such a good personal friend of Tommy, along with mr_me assuring us as well.

 

Now Tommy has this Spider-man game listed (4 times, one for each console it was on) on his website on his list of games that he's worked on. OBVIOUSLY Tommy himself worked on it because he's the world's biggest Spider-man fan and probably has a Guiness World Record for largest collection of Spider-Man crap on the planet. But I noticed that Tommy doesn't have the sequel, Spider-man 2 Enter Electro. If I had to guess, it's probably safe to say it was probably Tommy's idea when Activision/Vicarious Visions consulted with him to use the Tony Hawk engine for this Spider-man game, and to add photos of Tony Hawk 2's box art in the game too. I'm sure @Tommy Tallarico can personally confirm that himself.

 

 

VIDEO GAMES | Mysite (tallarico.com)

 

But why didn't Tommy add the sequel to his website? Am I really supposed to believe that Activision/Vicarious Visions made the first one with Tommy's involvement then decided to make a sequel without THE Tommy Tallarico??? THE incredibly legendary video game composer with a Guiness World Record with the most games worked on, the first American ever to work on Sonic, and world's biggest Spider-man fan with the world's largest collection of Spider-man junk???

 

Or should I just chalk it up to Tommy being human, and when you've worked on sooooooo many games, he probably just accidentally forgot to list one game? (Out of the hundreds that he's worked on) Maybe that's why his list (as Hbomberguy talked about in his Roblox OOF video) continues to grow & grow despite the fact that Tommy stopped working on games years ago. Tommy probably just keeps remembering games that he has forgotten about that he previously worked on. Maybe that's the perfectly simple & reasonable explanation as to why his list keeps on growing & growing and maybe Tommy really isn't lying or embellishing the truth, and maybe Hbomberguy really is just a gigantic hater spreading misinformation after all, and DJC is right as well!

Edited February 4, 2023 by Pink

[mr_me]

19 hours ago, zapzapzac said:

They don't need funding to issue refunds. This is a circle. How, again, do you not understand this? Tommy is a liar, and you are a liar.

Didn't say they need funding to issue refunds. Although, the directors pouring more money into this thing, again, could be considered funding. Just pointing out that based on what they said, I wouldn't expect refunds without new funding.  Over the last twelve months, they've owed their employees money, suppliers are owed money, lenders are owed money, in addition to refund requests owed.  And with what remained with their funds, they would have had to make decisions on who gets paid.

 

18 hours ago, jhd said:

Really the only way for Intellivision to raise additional funds (to pay the refunds) at this point is to secure additional pre-orders/deposits. I would be shocked if anyone would pay money for a system that is already almost 2.5 years past its original launch date and with no target in sight. 

For a while now their website hasn't been asking for deposits on preorders.

 

14 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Which is basically a Ponzi scheme. 🙂

If they were paying returns to Republic investors with other investors money, it would be a Ponzi scheme.  Republic investors haven't received any returns, so it's not.  If someone collects preorder money in order to produce a product, as that money gets spent on the product, new money coming in would be used to pay refund requests, as well as other expenses.  That's not a ponzi scheme either.

 

13 hours ago, MattPilz said:

The biggest upset with the refund failure is how many years it was argued that pre-ordering an Amico was the opposite of backing a Kickstarter. By the time they began accepting pre-orders it was stated that the console was on the launch pad and had a guaranteed cancel-anytime system with absolute zero risk. Compared to crowdfunding campaigns that directly tell you there's no guarantee and no mandatory refunds.

 

Tommy:  The harsh reality is that crowdfunding something is never a guarantee that you'll even get the product.  It's putting money into someone's dream in hopes that it will come out knowing you helped to be a part of it.  Very different than putting down money for a "pre-order".  Any crowdfunding campaign has risks.

 

At one point he likened the Amico pre-order system to a person pudding down fully refundable money for a new Ferrari.

 

 

 

 

The way it was presented, and unlike many Kickstarters, you didn't have to preorder at all to get an Amico.  They said, if you're unsure wait until it comes out, there would be plenty available.  While that never happened, they did refund deposit requests, without issue, for over two years until they ran into financial trouble.  And with these deposits you're only risking a portion of the purchase price.  With many kickstarters, and some other products, prepaying in full is the only way to get the product.

 

The 100% refundable means they owe you all of the deposit, vs 85% refundable for example.  There are no guarantees, if you put a deposit down at a car dealership and they go out of business, you're likely not getting the deposit or the car.

 

8 hours ago, Pink said:

I noticed...

I said no such thing.  In fact I spoke, in this thread, of the issues with several things they've said.  This misrepresentation about another forum user is a form of harassment.

 

9 hours ago, Tommy2D said:

...

I just saw a headline that Elon Musk somehow won his lawsuit based on his false "Funding Secured" tweet. I read an article predicting that he was very likely to loose, in part because the Judge had already ruled that his tweets were false and reckless but he somehow wound up with a unanimous jury verdict.  He did have to pay fines to the SEC, as part of a separate settlement, so he didn't get away "Scott free" but I'm still surprised by the trial. 

 

It does remind me a bit of some of Tommy T's wishful thinking statements like: "We're on the launch pad.", although I'd argue that Musk's comments were worse as they were less ambiguous. 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/feb/03/elon-musk-tesla-investors-lawsuit-twitter

 

I realize that different federal circuits probably have different precedents for what constitutes fraud, etc. but it's another reminder that it's pretty tough to hold someone accountable for their public statements. It's also a reminder that just because someone is a millionaire or a mega-billionaire, it doesn't make them automatically credible.

The threshold for a court ruling on fraud is very high, so it's not surprising.  While there may have been some wrongdoing, puffery doesn't even come into play with SEC fraud charges.

Edited February 4, 2023 by mr_me

[Flojomojo]

@Tommy2D I think one of the hardest hurdles in proving a fraud allegation is knowing the intent of the person making the statement. Like George Costanza said, “it’s not a lie if you believe it” comes to mind. I don’t know much about the Elon aftermath either but just because the prosecution couldn’t prove intentional manipulation, doesn’t disprove that Musk was reckless and stupid. 
 

Bringing it back to topic, people here might disagree about the level of “scam” that is Amico. Most people agree they intended to build something. There’s a divide of opinion about what Intellivision should have done when faced with multiple setbacks, many of which seem to be of their own creation. 
 

Tommy’s reliance on “The Secret” has to be one of the dumbest things in retro gaming history, and that includes Coleco Chameleon and Knight Rider homebrew. 

[Cebus Capucinis]

I'd opine, but candidly I don't really see the point (no offense) - the Amico merry-go-round will just continue on....and on......and on......and on.

 

[Rev]

23 hours ago, mr_me said:

If you believe that, then you should call the police and tell them a crime has been committed.  It is unlawful to owe money like that but not criminal.  If someone owed money takes the company to court, the judge will order them to pay.  Getting the courts involved can force action, sometimes filing for bankruptcy protection.  Under the previous CEO, requested refunds were paid without issue.

 

 

They owe the money to anyone that requests a refund, they're not denying it.  Things obviously didn't go as planned with their funding attempts.  We know that as they were forced to dismantle the company.

Is this your definition of a scam?   
 

And here we thought you would never answer that question!     You are so stunning and brave. 

[Rev]

Very good video. 
 

 

[Rev]

Another good watch.

[MarioMan88]

16 minutes ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I'd opine, but candidly I don't really see the point (no offense) - the Amico merry-go-round will just continue on....and on......and on......and on.

 

This sums up the Amico so accurately. Never ending, lowest of the low and not even a crawl to the finish line. They can’t even go belly up with dignity.

 

I mean these are grown adult people and can’t admit even the simplest of errors, like spelling “peek” wrong. Mind boggling the lack of self awareness and respect for even THEMSELVES.

 

I stick around purely for the entertainment it provides. Wife ask me other day why I keep up on this joke of a project? I simply replied “it’s fun”

 

At least INTV kept one of their core tenants…
 

 

 

 

[Steven Pendleton]

Still better than Bobby Kotick.

[Razzie.P]

6 hours ago, mr_me said:

The 100% refundable means they owe you all of the deposit, vs 85% refundable for example. 

Thank you for the clarification.  I’ve long struggled to understand the concept of 100%.  Like, did it mean all?  Some?   All plus some???  So confusing…

 

 

Think you could also clarify the “… at any time” part of the “100% refundable at any time” oft repeated promise?   Maybe we all though it meant “at the time of the customer’s choosing” but perhaps they were really saying “whenever we feel like it.”  But then they did say "whenever you want" so that muddles it again...

 

Like this copy and paste quote.  They’re not using your money, so it’s still there, right?  

"but again a hundred percent refundable at any time because i don't want you to think we're like you know taking your money or using your money you get it back whenever you want"

 

 

6 hours ago, mr_me said:

There are no guarantees, if you put a deposit down at a car dealership and they go out of business, you're likely not getting the deposit or the car.

 

No guarantees = just lies from the guarantor.   That's a good point.  Thank you for providing extra proof that they lied.

 

The car dealership thing is a bit weak though, so I can't agree that it applies here.   They're not out of business, so that analogy doesn't fit this scenario at all.  It might fit well a few years down the road, but as of now, they're still active with a "industry changing" product on the rocket ship, fans who still think they're on the right course, paying top salary folk, more vacations, hanging tight to all that money they promised they weren't using.

[Razzie.P]

2 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

I'd opine, but candidly I don't really see the point (no offense) - the Amico merry-go-round will just continue on....and on......and on......and on.

 

 

Strangers waitin' Up and down the boulevard.  Their shadows searchin' in the night
 

[Matt_B]

5 hours ago, Rev said:

Very good video.

I'd love to see Patrick Boyle make a video about the Amico. It's got just the right combination of financial shenanigans and utter absurdity to be right up his alley.

[roots.genoa]

9 hours ago, mr_me said:

If they were paying returns to Republic investors with other investors money, it would be a Ponzi scheme.  Republic investors haven't received any returns, so it's not.  If someone collects preorder money in order to produce a product, as that money gets spent on the product, new money coming in would be used to pay refund requests, as well as other expenses.  That's not a ponzi scheme either.

Oh, I know what a Ponzi scheme is, but the way it was described just sounded like an involuntary Ponzi scheme if you prefer.

 

3 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

Think you could also clarify the “… at any time” part of the “100% refundable at any time” oft repeated promise?

It means you can ask for a refund at any time, but it doesn't mean you will get it though. 🙂