kevtris Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Matt_B said: I'd think that the ESP32 would have been fine if they'd just stuck to recreating the original Intellivision controller in modern hardware, so all it had to do is display a static picture on the touch screen at start-up as the number pad overlay, and then read a bunch of inputs and transmit them to the console over Bluetooth while the game was in play. It's used in a lot of DIY game controller projects, and that shouldn't have been beyond it. I've a sneaking suspicion that that was the original brief when it was selected. They just then saw fit to overload it with a ton of extra functionality because it also had to work like a Wii-mote or a mobile phone for particular games, and that's what made it such a risky technical proposition. Given the arrogance and ignorance Tommy showed towards you, I can only imagine what the conversations with his own engineers were like. yeah I'm 100% sure going by the 2018 trailer that tommy was literally making a "modern" intellivision, with a touch screen to replace the overlays, and the graphics on it were not supposed to change very often or at all during gameplay. The buttons were even in the middle like the original until they were moved to be what amounted to shoulder buttons. Trying to add animations and all the other stuff is what pretty much did it in. I still think even for what they were doing it was a bit underpowered before the scope creep happened. The total lack of face buttons showed the total lack of understanding of video games made after the early 1980's. Bucking literally 40 years of game controller design is not the path to success. Trying to focus on THREE things while playing the games is not a recipe for success, or fun. (controller screen, TV screen, LEDs on the system). This is why game controllers are very haptic and you can find and use the buttons without having to take your eyes off the screen. Trying to press areas of a touch screen without looking is just... beyond idiotic. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 22 hours ago, kevtris said: They threw up several large red flags to me in early 2020; specifically they needed to have the design 100% locked down by march-april time frame, and tommy then instigated a redesign of the controller to change out the resistive touch screen with a capacitive one. And when I made some comments about the production timeline, tommy said I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about. That was all I needed to know to understand that the project was doomed in early 2020. Interestingly, in december of 2019, tommy posted a video from their then literal back room office, and hanging on the cube wall was two revisions of the main amico board. This seems to be about the last time the hardware was actually worked on. In early 2020, the brakes slammed on the hardware train, and it never restarted. From 2019 to 2021 it seems they only managed to do one final main board spin and little else. Something like a month of work stretched out over the course of a year and a half. Their "system assembly" time lapse video showed just how non-production ready the system was in 2021, with parts being held together with double stick tape, and no shielding. The controller assembly video was pretty funny too; a lot of it was cut out that would've shown incriminating evidence about the hardware and just how underpowered it was (hint: they attempted to run the entire thing using a single ESP32). I've been through the process of launching a lot of hardware now, and I know how this particular sausage was made and could see from a mile away that tommy was just trying to bullshit his way through the process and didn't really understand what he was doing. And in the end I was exactly right. In the end they failed to get the thing in manufacturing. But if they did, it would have been better to take the extra year to get the product the way they want. And it isn't just a hardware project. They also have to develop a library of games and servers to support the platform. So even if hardware was ready early it might still have had to wait for software. In a 2021 interview the CFO said they were already behind schedule when the pandemic hit. It's not surprising they would have missed October 2020 anyway as it was a target date selected before they even hired the people to work on the thing. Pandemic shutdowns didn't help. They didn't get their prototype in the testing labs until late 2020, where they likely learned hardware changes were needed. They implemented those changes in 2021 and had it back in the testing lab that summer. That's based on what company staff have said. The assembly video in March 2021 wouldn't have been a final prototype. I don't think they had a pre-production prototype ready until late 2021. Towards the end of 2019 they revealed some high level design changes to their prototype. Controller buttons relocated for horisontal orientation, touchscreen technology upgraded. The system board changed as we see different usb ports and onboard storage memory doubled. In March 2020 we saw the new controller in action in the Missile Command and Sideswiper videos. 6 hours ago, Matt_B said: I'd think that the ESP32 would have been fine if they'd just stuck to recreating the original Intellivision controller in modern hardware, so all it had to do is display a static picture on the touch screen at start-up as the number pad overlay, and then read a bunch of inputs and transmit them to the console over Bluetooth while the game was in play. It's used in a lot of DIY game controller projects, and that shouldn't have been beyond it. I've a sneaking suspicion that that was the original brief when it was selected. They just then saw fit to overload it with a ton of extra functionality because it also had to work like a Wii-mote or a mobile phone for particular games, and that's what made it such a risky technical proposition. Given the arrogance and ignorance Tommy showed towards you, I can only imagine what the conversations with his own engineers were like. Displaying static images is really all the controller display needs to do to be effective in local multiplayer games. Like showing a player where the next power up is in Amico Shark Shark, or showing player assets privately in strategy games. They have demonstrated the touchscreen doing more, as a UI for player setup in Shark Shark and Astrosmash, as an alphanumeric keyboard during system setup. The ESP32 microcontroller has a dual core 32-bit processor. It also has a third ultra low power processor. 3 hours ago, kevtris said: yeah I'm 100% sure going by the 2018 trailer that tommy was literally making a "modern" intellivision, with a touch screen to replace the overlays, and the graphics on it were not supposed to change very often or at all during gameplay. The buttons were even in the middle like the original until they were moved to be what amounted to shoulder buttons. Trying to add animations and all the other stuff is what pretty much did it in. I still think even for what they were doing it was a bit underpowered before the scope creep happened. The total lack of face buttons showed the total lack of understanding of video games made after the early 1980's. Bucking literally 40 years of game controller design is not the path to success. Trying to focus on THREE things while playing the games is not a recipe for success, or fun. (controller screen, TV screen, LEDs on the system). This is why game controllers are very haptic and you can find and use the buttons without having to take your eyes off the screen. Trying to press areas of a touch screen without looking is just... beyond idiotic. When the Amico touchscreen is used as a button it's typically used as only one button so the user can tap anywhere without looking. The controller display can be used such that the focus is either the TV or the controller display and not both. That's just game design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, mr_me said: When the Amico touchscreen is used as a button it's typically used as only one button so the user can tap anywhere without looking. The controller display can be used such that the focus is either the TV or the controller display and not both. That's just game design. Sure. Their only problem was that the game design was not done by the best teams at Nintendo but by young German students. 🙂 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, mr_me said: In the end they failed to get the thing in manufacturing. But if they did, it would have been better to take the extra year to get the product the way they want. And it isn't just a hardware project. They also have to develop a library of games and servers to support the platform. So even if hardware was ready early it might still have had to wait for software. In a 2021 interview the CFO said they were already behind schedule when the pandemic hit. It's not surprising they would have missed October 2020 anyway as it was a target date selected before they even hired the people to work on the thing. Pandemic shutdowns didn't help. They didn't get their prototype in the testing labs until late 2020, where they likely learned hardware changes were needed. They implemented those changes in 2021 and had it back in the testing lab that summer. That's based on what company staff have said. The assembly video in March 2021 wouldn't have been a final prototype. I don't think they had a pre-production prototype ready until late 2021. Towards the end of 2019 they revealed some high level design changes to their prototype. Controller buttons relocated for horisontal orientation, touchscreen technology upgraded. The system board changed as we see different usb ports and onboard storage memory doubled. In March 2020 we saw the new controller in action in the Missile Command and Sideswiper videos. Displaying static images is really all the controller display needs to do to be effective in local multiplayer games. Like showing a player where the next power up is in Amico Shark Shark, or showing player assets privately in strategy games. They have demonstrated the touchscreen doing more, as a UI for player setup in Shark Shark and Astrosmash, as an alphanumeric keyboard during system setup. The ESP32 microcontroller has a dual core 32-bit processor. It also has a third ultra low power processor. When the Amico touchscreen is used as a button it's typically used as only one button so the user can tap anywhere without looking. The controller display can be used such that the focus is either the TV or the controller display and not both. That's just game design. Wow, I'm glad you came in to explain to us plebes just how easy it is and how everything works after the fact. Edited March 27, 2023 by digdugnate 2 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 11 hours ago, number6 said: Probably of interest to practically no one: Re: Former link to abandonment notice for trademark "Intellivision Together Again" Update: Notice Of Revival filed And just prior: Petition to Revive Abandoned Application - Failure to File Timely Statement of Use or Extension Request Hmm...you might recall in a prior post I asked why they replaced their trademark attorney recently. I wonder if there is any connection. #6 What do you make of that filing? It seems to suggest that intellivision entertainment is paying lawyers to resuscitate their dead trademark rather than paying out refunds to preorder customers. “Together Again” is a better catchphrase at the end of the global pandemic than it was at the start. It also smacks of embroidering new logos on the deck chairs of the Titanic. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseystyle Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 7 hours ago, mr_me said: When the Amico touchscreen is used as a button it's typically used as only one button so the user can tap anywhere without looking. The controller display can be used such that the focus is either the TV or the controller display and not both. That's just game design. No one can look at what they did to Cornhole and Missile Command and claim these idiots knew anything about proper game design. You are again giving massive benefit of doubt to people who have done NOTHING to have earned that. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, jerseystyle said: No one can look at what they did to Cornhole and Missile Command and claim these idiots knew anything about proper game design. You are again giving massive benefit of doubt to people who have done NOTHING to have earned that. "Never trust a man with no shirt on." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseystyle Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, digdugnate said: "Never trust a man with no shirt on." I could see TT with a fake piss apparatus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, jerseystyle said: I could see TT with a fake piss apparatus. In some ways, that's how the Amico project was managed. They asked their fans if they wanted anything from the store, they brought something back, but it turns out the company was really a shirtless trailer park assistant supervisor spying on the fans. "10 bucks or six Dairy Queen coupons" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, roots.genoa said: Sure. Their only problem was that the game design was not done by the best teams at Nintendo but by young German students. 🙂 They did say which Amico games were being done by German developers. Which ones were by German students? 3 hours ago, jerseystyle said: No one can look at what they did to Cornhole and Missile Command and claim these idiots knew anything about proper game design. You are again giving massive benefit of doubt to people who have done NOTHING to have earned that. You're assuming I said more than I did, again. What don't you like about Amico Cornhole? Edited March 27, 2023 by mr_me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, mr_me said: What don't you like about Amico Cornhole? I'm thankful I wasn't drinking my coffee because I laughed so hard reading that, as I assumed you asked this seriously. IMHO, just judging by footage it looked pretty sloppy. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 3/24/2023 at 10:21 AM, MrBeefy said: Don't make fun of their target market. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo only target those who eat Dorritos and drink Mountain Dew. Amico is going to target the market of water drinkers! They only need 1% of that demographic. Think about how many water drinkers are not being targeted by the current companies? They have the data that those who don't like Mountain Dew as their beverage of choice have been left behind since the days of the Wii. The water drinkers love Amico and our data and focus groups back that up. The design was made to appeal to water drinkers. They intended to make the console look like a footbath! When you think footbath what do you need? Water! Everything we do has a purpose. Did you know when we put out a Switch, Amico, Xbox, and Playstation, that those who picked Amico as their favorite design drank water!?!? Same reason we designed the controller to look like a bar of soap! We really believe in clean gaming. See the innuendo there and how we know what we are doing? Those who want to say we don't know what we are doing just want to drink their Mountain Dew and destroy us! They just don't want to understand that the console is not for them because they don't like or drink water! We want you to get on the ground floor of what we are doing. We are offering a special Flounder Edition. Because Flounder lives in the ocean and hey MORE WATER! Not to mention Ariel is good friends of mine who likes to give me lapdances. Anyways with each Flounder Edition you will get a special Swimming Man lenticular poster and a special vial of my own bath water! We are really doing something special and I never lose. Well some of those water drinkers ended up being Kool-Aid drinkers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPilz Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Mike M. confirmed on March 22 that "myself and DJC are still pilot testing a finished system for them..." Does anyone have comparisons by other console makers how long they conducted pilot testing with self-described 100% hardware finished systems? The ones for DJC and MM have been in their hands since October and that followed half a year or so of reported testing by actual QA folk. I know with Playdate they sent batches of test units out to QA testers for a few weeks at a time, then would iterate and widen the testing for the next phase, ramping up quickly. (I guess the correct answer is, they will continue pilot testing until Phil secures some means of manufacturing, which may not ever happen.) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots.genoa Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 2 hours ago, mr_me said: They did say which Amico games were being done by German developers. Which ones were by German students? I think your irony detector might not work properly. 😅 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, MattPilz said: (I guess the correct answer is, they will continue pilot testing until Phil secures some means of manufacturing, which may not ever happen.) I still say why bother? For the reasons I've stated many times before. It's a DOA product. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_B Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 In the real world, pilot testing is something you do with a finished product (usually software) that's passed user acceptance testing and is ready for release, just to catch any real world issues before it's exposed to a large audience. It typically takes a few weeks. In Amicoland, it's mumbo jumbo for giving cobbled together prototypes to shills to make it look as though they're doing something, when the actual product is nowhere near finished and unlikely to ever get into production. I wouldn't be waiting up. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseystyle Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, mr_me said: What don't you like about Amico Cornhole? Holy shit dude why are you gaslighting me? You were part of the multiple conversations about Cornhole that I had with TT ON THIS FORUM. I remember telling you, TT, and the shills all about my initial excitement and then total disappointment with the “updated” controls and downgraded graphics. We had entire threads about how they screwed up Cornhole. And to your other comment. You still are using as proof the words of TT, Amico “engineers”, and others, when it was proven they were dishonest (at best) and were actively stealing money from mentally challenged people. Why, in, 2023, do you think using “they said XYZ back in 2021” is any sort of appropriate argument? They lied to you. They continue to lie to you. They stole money. They continue to steal money. Why do you STILL insist on assuming competence, business sense, or good intentions? Edited March 27, 2023 by jerseystyle 4 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Flojomojo said: What do you make of that filing? It seems to suggest that intellivision entertainment is paying lawyers to resuscitate their dead trademark rather than paying out refunds to preorder customers. “Together Again” is a better catchphrase at the end of the global pandemic than it was at the start. It also smacks of embroidering new logos on the deck chairs of the Titanic. All I can say is they waited until the last minute to file. Basically if you receive the abandonment notice (which they did) you have 2 months to file to revive. You can confirm the dates here It would be pure speculation as to why they didn't file much earlier, given how this has suddenly? become important to them. It would have been cheaper to have the former attorney simply file for another extension as opposed to going through the process of hiring a new attorney. Filing a petition to revive has a cost as well. *shrug* Added: On March 16, 2023 they also filed "new name" for their euro trademark for "Intellivision Together Again". This is likely a change of address despite the language of "new name". If so, this also is being done long after their actual address change. *shrug* #6 Edited March 27, 2023 by number6 Added reference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBeefy Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 22 hours ago, number6 said: Probably of interest to practically no one: Re: Former link to abandonment notice for trademark "Intellivision Together Again" Update: Notice Of Revival filed And just prior: Petition to Revive Abandoned Application - Failure to File Timely Statement of Use or Extension Request Hmm...you might recall in a prior post I asked why they replaced their trademark attorney recently. I wonder if there is any connection. #6 ANY DAY NOW THEY WILL RELEASE! 13 hours ago, digdugnate said: Wow, I'm glad you came in to explain to us plebes just how easy it is and how everything works after the fact. Well tbf I think even the biggest of idiots could crap out a basic Android device for half the money Amico had. 11 hours ago, Flojomojo said: What do you make of that filing? It seems to suggest that intellivision entertainment is paying lawyers to resuscitate their dead trademark rather than paying out refunds to preorder customers. “Together Again” is a better catchphrase at the end of the global pandemic than it was at the start. It also smacks of embroidering new logos on the deck chairs of the Titanic. They are the best of seats. Did you know the former CEO was good friends with Mike Kennedy who was also in charge of a video game titanic project? 10 hours ago, jerseystyle said: No one can look at what they did to Cornhole and Missile Command and claim these idiots knew anything about proper game design. You are again giving massive benefit of doubt to people who have done NOTHING to have earned that. Missile Command is by far not my favorite classic arcade game, but I do like it. The multiplayer looks like complete crap not to mention a spray and pray. Cornhole in addition to a laggy mess was a missed opportunity. I played Switch Sports Golf with Jr Beefy yesterday and it was fun. IE couldn't even get close to a simple game like that. BTW for those interested Jr Beefy wasn't alive when Amico was announced. Now he's playing Switch, like any good reasonable family oriented gaming communist. 4 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said: I'm thankful I wasn't drinking my coffee because I laughed so hard reading that, as I assumed you asked this seriously. IMHO, just judging by footage it looked pretty sloppy. All of their stuff was sloppy. It took me, some rando on a forum, to get them to use the proper spelling of peek in their official videos. I mean come the F on. I am not the first person you should ask on how to spell something. If I'm catching it, it is bad. 4 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said: Well some of those water drinkers ended up being Kool-Aid drinkers. HEY HATER YOU HAVE TO POUR WATER IN THAT POWDER. YOU ARE SO MISINFORMED AND JEALOUS. WE HAVE THE DATA. 4 hours ago, MattPilz said: Mike M. confirmed on March 22 that "myself and DJC are still pilot testing a finished system for them..." Does anyone have comparisons by other console makers how long they conducted pilot testing with self-described 100% hardware finished systems? The ones for DJC and MM have been in their hands since October and that followed half a year or so of reported testing by actual QA folk. I know with Playdate they sent batches of test units out to QA testers for a few weeks at a time, then would iterate and widen the testing for the next phase, ramping up quickly. (I guess the correct answer is, they will continue pilot testing until Phil secures some means of manufacturing, which may not ever happen.) RetroBro has confirmed they were promised units for being "good little boys". He would have gotten one too if he didn't speak out against them for continual lies. At least he had some respect for himself to know that his dignity was worth more than a crappy Android footbath. 3 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said: I still say why bother? For the reasons I've stated many times before. It's a DOA product. Because there are still idiots who think it will come out. Some are still professing the faith of Tommy who isn't CEO and has scrubbed the mention of Amico from some of his socials. They have more to gain or not lose from keeping the sleeple in the dark. Also I wanted to bring up something. I heard something I said here came up on Reddit about Al being complicit because he asked me if I was SteamPoweredInternet. IMO If he was complicit he wouldn't have asked. Having been a part of he said/she said crap I know you ask questions when things come up. I'd rather be asked than just assumed that the mad ramblings of idiots were accurate. Tommy wanted me banned and hinted as much here at AA, and to be complicit, IMO, would have been a banning with no questions asked. To the redditors reading this take it how you want but I wouldn't be using AA still if I believed that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy2D Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) I took a little break from following this thread and I just skimmed over the recent exchanges, with the troll/Genuine-Tommy-Fan#1. If they were trolling, they really committed to the role. My favorite line was something about Tommy T. penning some kind of unity jam to bring everyone together. Edited March 28, 2023 by Tommy2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, MrBeefy said: ANY DAY NOW THEY WILL RELEASE! It's not too late for a Q1 release. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 3 hours ago, jerseystyle said: Holy shit dude why are you gaslighting me? You were part of the multiple conversations about Cornhole that I had with TT ON THIS FORUM. I remember telling you, TT, and the shills all about my initial excitement and then total disappointment with the “updated” controls and downgraded graphics. We had entire threads about how they screwed up Cornhole. And to your other comment. You still are using as proof the words of TT, Amico “engineers”, and others, when it was proven they were dishonest (at best) and were actively stealing money from mentally challenged people. Why, in, 2023, do you think using “they said XYZ back in 2021” is any sort of appropriate argument? They lied to you. They continue to lie to you. They stole money. They continue to steal money. Why do you STILL insist on assuming competence, business sense, or good intentions? I remember your objection when they first demonstrated the new control options in their Cornhole game. The assumption at the time was that it now requires a manual multi-step process to throw a bag. It later became clear that those steps are completely optional, but does allow a player to change their body position, aim at a board location other than the hole/middle, and easily set the vertical throw angle if needed. With the new Cornhole a player can still simply throw with motion control while those options are automatically set to defaults. So that just leaves the graphics. The timeline put together from what their CFO and engineers said is not all that different from what Kevtris said. And I don't assume those things you said. Someone else here said that it doesn't matter what they say, that the product would have to stand on its own. This company failed to get their product out. 5 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said: I still say why bother? For the reasons I've stated many times before. It's a DOA product. At least it's getting played. A developer likes to see people make good use of their work, doesn't always matter how many. It does happen that projects get shelved for a number of reasons, not a good feeling for those that worked on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 10 hours ago, mr_me said: What don't you like about Amico Cornhole? It looks just fine, if it were a free web browser game on a website like crazygames.com arkadium.com addictinggames.com Not something to buy a $200-300+ game console to play in the 2010s/2020s. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SegaSnatcher Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 4 hours ago, mr_me said: At least it's getting played. A developer likes to see people make good use of their work, doesn't always matter how many. It does happen that projects get shelved for a number of reasons, not a good feeling for those that worked on it. I got a pretty simple solution to that problem. Ditch the console and port those games on platforms people can actually buy or already own. The whole idea of those games needing its own unique console was one of the biggest flubs with this whole project. It's pretty clear that the vast majority of Amico games could be played on a standard controller and or could be tweaked to work with one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Sure, but regardless of what you think of the controller and console they are also part of the Amico project. And the games would still have to be modified for other controllers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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