Intellivision Amico’s trademark changed to ‘abandoned’

[SegaSnatcher]

1 minute ago, mr_me said:

Yes, and in that March video he didn't answer your question.  He only referred back to what he said earlier about all the games in general.  Games at that stage of development, having gone through alpha and beta testing would only have minor issues, if any, remaining.

He did respond to my question though, he said a few of the built in games went Gold, meaning that some of the built in games weren't in a Gold state. That reply seems pretty cut and dry to me. 
 

 

[mr_me]

Software that has completed alpha and beta testing, and beta bug/issue fixing, even before entering gold master q&a, shouldn't have any issues that would keep it from releasing.

[1980gamer]

23 minutes ago, SegaSnatcher said:

He did respond to my question though, he said a few of the built in games went Gold, meaning that some of the built in games weren't in a Gold state. That reply seems pretty cut and dry to me. 
 

 

I liked your second question better!  Original Intellivision Games. 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing an Evercade release that had AtGames styled controllers included with an emulator that uses them properly.

Maybe a Mega-Pack that includes 2 controllers and all "available" games. 

 

I don't really need it, I have the Byte Knight Ultimate Flashback already.  But maybe some of the licensed home brew games that are not sold as roms could be released?

 

[Rev]

13 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Software that has completed alpha and beta testing, and beta bug/issue fixing, even before entering gold master q&a, shouldn't have any issues that would keep it from releasing.

Possibly, except their isnt a system ready for them to be released on.   

[SegaSnatcher]

16 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Software that has completed alpha and beta testing, and beta bug/issue fixing, even before entering gold master q&a, shouldn't have any issues that would keep it from releasing.

You're right it shouldn't, but we are talking about I.E. here who don't exactly have a great track record.   It's really hard to take their word on anything these days. 

[mr_me]

4 minutes ago, Rev said:

Possibly, except their isnt a system ready for them to be released on.   

Yes, it's not the games that's keeping it from releasing.

[rayik]

50 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Software that has completed alpha and beta testing, and beta bug/issue fixing, even before entering gold master q&a, shouldn't have any issues that would keep it from releasing.

All assumptions.  We don't actually know as IE has never stated exact status.

[Rev]

2 hours ago, mr_me said:

Yes, it's not the games that's keeping it from releasing.

We will have to wait for a low level youtuber to leak the info to find out.

[MattPilz]

On 7/19/2022 at 12:38 PM, Flojomojo said:

That post contained a pretty pathetic attempt at FUD over the RFID tags, too. 

Did anyone actually believe this at the time?

How about now?

I spent a bit of time analyzing the RFID cards myself and found no evidence that extra data could even be stored anywhere on it. They are LRI2K wafer chips (introduced in 2006) and fixed to 128-256 bytes of user data. The written data is of type 'U' (URI) containing a standard text message in hexadecimal format. That message is the URL to Intellivision's website with a unique string appended to the end. And that data itself consumes a good chunk of the memory. They are not unlike NFC/digital business cards that contain an RFID to someone's portfolio or a product URL.

Edited July 22, 2022 by MattPilz

[Matt_B]

4 hours ago, rayik said:

All assumptions.  We don't actually know as IE has never stated exact status.

From a company who made 'physical' releases of games when neither them nor the console was finished, I'd think that the concept of 'going gold' is somewhat meaningless too.

[roots.genoa]

6 hours ago, 1980gamer said:

People were hating on TT before he said boo about Amico.

I get not liking someone, but some real venom over a review MANY years before.  Get over it!  LOL

It wasn't just a review. Personally I was not aware of that review or his show, but I didn't like TT very much (I would not say that I hated him though) because of the way he trashed the Wii years ago:

 

So obviously he has changed his stance regarding the Wii since then, and that's why I was pleasantly surprised initially and (cautiously) optimistic about the Amico. But his behavior later confirmed he hadn't changed that much... ? I know we all made mistakes in the past and I said my share of stupid stuff, but watching what TT wrote in forums 15 years ago for instance is quite shocking, especially given what he's trying to accomplish now. Going for the Christian families is ironic when you discover what he thought of believers as a whole. ?

[1980gamer]

3 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

It wasn't just a review. Personally I was not aware of that review or his show, but I didn't like TT very much (I would not say that I hated him though) because of the way he trashed the Wii years ago:

 

So obviously he has changed his stance regarding the Wii since then, and that's why I was pleasantly surprised initially and (cautiously) optimistic about the Amico. But his behavior later confirmed he hadn't changed that much... ? I know we all made mistakes in the past and I said my share of stupid stuff, but watching what TT wrote in forums 15 years ago for instance is quite shocking, especially given what he's trying to accomplish now. Going for the Christian families is ironic when you discover what he thought of believers as a whole. ?

Okay,  I didn't hear him hating on the Wii in that video.  He likes a different style of game.  Maybe part 2?

 

I remember when I got my Wii, I didn't like the graphics either.  But, I have to say.  The system was worth the price with just the pack in games.

Wii Sports was a great update to those games.

 

I get the panels points of view.  Clearly, part 2 hints at him not liking the Wiimote.  He might still not like it, but likes the innovation of it.

The Amico controller is basically a cross between an Intellivision Controller, A Wiimote and a current day controller with shoulder buttons etc.  It is a nice controller.

 

People change likes / dislikes over time. 

[number6]

My takeaway is the last minute.

Tommy's feelings about "controller" expressed in the video vs the importance put on the Intellivision Amico controller are surely consistent.

 

#6

 

 

[mr_me]

9 hours ago, rayik said:

All assumptions.  We don't actually know as IE has never stated exact status.

It's from their CTO, and he did give a non specific answer, saying the games they've "shown".  They've shown over thirty games, some of which we know development has been paused.  He might mean the ones they've shown recently in videos that we've seen people playing, there's over a dozen of those but it is not specific.

 

7 hours ago, Rev said:

We will have to wait for a low level youtuber to leak the info to find out.

In 2020 games probably weren't ready, but in 2022 they would have enough games to release a console.  The company web site has about twenty titles that are listed for launch window.  Of note is that Back Talk Party is not among them but that list was put up some time ago. (This is the title that I would specifically ask about as it's expected to be a key packin game that pushes the controller functionality.)

 

5 hours ago, Matt_B said:

From a company who made 'physical' releases of games when neither them nor the console was finished, I'd think that the concept of 'going gold' is somewhat meaningless too.

Going gold means the game is released for distribution.  There is no point in doing that until consumer units are in production.  For most games, including the boxed editions, that doesn't need to happen until the console is released.

 

7 hours ago, MattPilz said:

I spent a bit of time analyzing the RFID cards myself and found no evidence that extra data could even be stored anywhere on it. They are LRI2K wafer chips (introduced in 2006) and fixed to 128-256 bytes of user data. The written data is of type 'U' (URI) containing a standard text message in hexadecimal format. That message is the URL to Intellivision's website with a unique string appended to the end. And that data itself consumes a good chunk of the memory. They are not unlike NFC/digital business cards that contain an RFID to someone's portfolio or a product URL.

How did you determine the rfid tag model?  The tag id should reveal the manufacturer but that model has been out of production for a while.  And newer models can emulate the function of older ones, plus more.

Edited July 22, 2022 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

12 hours ago, SegaSnatcher said:

The only explaination is either they just are really poor at software development or they haulted software development straight up for whatever reason. 

I think I said it earlier that I heard a rumor that in late 2019 to early 2020 they stopped paying devs.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the grant money ran out on all the pack in games. Since those were funded through the grant that might mean that they would need to finish them internally.

 

We know they asked for music for games offering $500. They told people they had won but never followed up with payment. Initial brag was they were going to have most launch games ever. Which was 35ish. That has almost been cut in half. So, it wouldn't be surprising to find that's because they stopped paying those people to work on them. So you have 6 pack ins paid for by a grant, then half of the "physical games" being ports of previously finished games.

 

If grant money ran out is that why John was working on the new throwing of the bags?  Bomb Squad developer said the game dev was halted. It was obviously not running right on the hardware. So I would also not be surprised to find games were cut because they couldn't find a way for the hardware to run them properly.

 

 

And now for different news. 

https://www.democratizing.finance/post/republic-investors-furious-after-parastate-raises-8-million-then-token-plummets-90-in-first-week

 

Intellivision gets mentioned.

Quote

One of the biggest debacles prior to Parastate, was Intellivision. Intellivision raised $11.5m from Republic investors and several more millions in pre-orders only for the company to constantly delay production, lose millions in a botched manufacturing deal, and is currently sitting on the brink of bankruptcy.

 

[mr_me]

The grant money from 2019 was only 880k euros.  They received most of their funding, $11.5M from Republic/Fig in 2021.  All their games are developed by independent developers.  Although, the company works closely with developers including contributing code, finishing games internally is speculation.  Several games have been paused or possibly cancelled for various reason.  Scaling back costs in 2021 would be one of the reasons.  More firmware optimization that Bomb Squad may have required could also be a reason.  Back in 2018, they were talking about twenty games, and that number has fluctuated since then.

 

I haven't read the article but from the quote, it's poorly researched as they didn't raise millions in preorders, more like half a million.  And it's $1.35M tied up in a dispute with the manufacturer.

Edited July 22, 2022 by mr_me

[number6]

@MrBeefy

 

Your talking about the need for s/w optimization and yes, it's a thing.

 

I can see how looking at their lists they also had to be asking themselves if other intended s/w products are going to require more changes than anticipated as well. Obviously anything that requires more time does not serve them well.

 

#6

[Rev]

9 hours ago, MattPilz said:

I spent a bit of time analyzing the RFID cards myself and found no evidence that extra data could even be stored anywhere on it. They are LRI2K wafer chips (introduced in 2006) and fixed to 128-256 bytes of user data. The written data is of type 'U' (URI) containing a standard text message in hexadecimal format. That message is the URL to Intellivision's website with a unique string appended to the end. And that data itself consumes a good chunk of the memory. They are not unlike NFC/digital business cards that contain an RFID to someone's portfolio or a product URL.

Do the individual Amico RFID cards link to each game separately and would automatically prompt a download of that particular game upon tapping the card on the console?

 

or

 

Are the URL on the Amico RFID cards generic/all same and just link to the same place?

 

Of I recall the URLs were all generic and the same. Which would lead me to believe you might of had to had an account set up linked to your console, then select the game by entering that number on the card.  If this was the procedure, pretty lame and pointless to have the whole “boxed games”. 

[mr_me]

There might be a circumstance that requires entering a code but typically download/install would be automatic upon rfid tap.  Whether you need an account setup remains to be seen, but I would expect so, technically it doesn't have to.  The url that is exposed is specific to that game.

Edited July 22, 2022 by mr_me

[MrBeefy]

25 minutes ago, Rev said:

Do the individual Amico RFID cards link to each game separately and would automatically prompt a download of that particular game upon tapping the card on the console?

 

or

 

Are the URL on the Amico RFID cards generic/all same and just link to the same place?

 

Of I recall the URLs were all generic and the same. Which would lead me to believe you might of had to had an account set up linked to your console, then select the game by entering that number on the card.  If this was the procedure, pretty lame and pointless to have the whole “boxed games”. 

They were similar in where they pointed with exception of a certain number string which would be different per person testing. It is probably the code on the actual card.

[rayik]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

The grant money from 2019 was only 880k euros.  They received most of their funding, $11.5M from Republic/Fig in 2021.  All their games are developed by independent developers.  Although, the company works closely with developers including contributing code, finishing games internally is speculation.  Several games have been paused or possibly cancelled for various reason.  Scaling back costs in 2021 would be one of the reasons.  More firmware optimization that Bomb Squad may have required could also be a reason.  Back in 2018, they were talking about twenty games, and that number has fluctuated since then.

 

I haven't read the article but from the quote, it's poorly researched as they didn't raise millions in preorders, more like half a million.  And it's $1.35M tied up in a dispute with the manufacturer.

We don’t know anything about developer relationships and use of money. It’s all speculation.  
 

All we know is nothing is released and what IE has stated.  The rest is our speculation.

 

I’ve been reading some of the Amico threads preserved on the Internet Archive. Later when I’m on a laptop I’ll post TT stating that everything he says is his personal opinion and is not considered official until it is confirmed by IE official statement or IE’s website. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by rayik

[Rev]

15 minutes ago, MrBeefy said:

They were similar in where they pointed with exception of a certain number string which would be different per person testing. It is probably the code on the actual card.

The biggest problem will be getting people to take off the shrinkwrap.   Good thing you can scan through it. 

[MattPilz]

3 hours ago, mr_me said:

How did you determine the rfid tag model?  The tag id should reveal the manufacturer but that model has been out of production for a while.  And newer models can emulate the function of older ones, plus more.

I can't actually recall my specific methodology on how I reached that determination, I'd agree there are more modern alternatives that'd be more readily available. I know they were STMicroelectronics, used NDEF and ISO 15693-2/3 specifications. I was able to read the raw HEX data that translated into a static text string containing the URL. I saw no area or means of them packing additional unreadable data into it and don't see how the Amico-embedded RFID reader would be able to pull out additional data from it that no other reader can. The cards appear no different than any that you can order online in bulk often for business cards, which have the option of custom front/back design and unique IDs per RFID. These cards are forever dependent on the intellivision.com domain existing and having a particular structure. If the domain were to ever get sold, redone or shutdown these URLs would be futile (currently they just redirect to a singular placeholder page).

 

1 hour ago, Rev said:

Do the individual Amico RFID cards link to each game separately and would automatically prompt a download of that particular game upon tapping the card on the console?

The URLs are title-specific and each one has a random unique ID at the end. The physical code on the back of each is different than the RFID data. Hopefully Intellivision would have a database that maps the RFID and printed codes together, which could then be used for verification and card tracking purposes. They'd have to build up the back-end infrastructure so that scanning one would register that specific card within their database for that particular Amico and then retrieve the download.

 

13 minutes ago, Rev said:

Good thing you can scan through it. 

And it has been stated that tapping the card (or box, which works due purely to how thin and uninsulated the cardboard is) would be sufficient to register/activate/download the game. The code on the physical card was implied to be necessary in instances of card ownership transfer. Tommy said in one interview they had "something" in place to prevent people from just skimming the boxes if they were at a retailer, but never elaborated. I don't see what could prevent that if you're able to capture the URL (with unique ID) from outside the box and then transmit it any number of ways to the Amico...

Edited July 22, 2022 by MattPilz

[number6]

@MrBeefy

 

Since you appreciate facts and I have some time I'll mention something else. I'm not sure if anyone on the tech side ever explained things like this to people or not. Forgive me if it is "known" already.

It is personal experience from inside a project. The information is totally public though since the community involved operated much differently. Basically everyone is a beta tester. People post issues in public. They attempt to narrow down on a particular error and even management and core developers of the kernel are involved. In a word...transparency. 

Shocking I know, but the focus is on solving the issue. No doubt if I reviewed the massive number of threads about this I would find some "hahaha" type posts, but those are always there.

 

Due to a discovery that a plan was going to utterly collapse and be both a massive disappointment plus disturb a time frame in which product needed to be delivered, an alternative arose. Sadly, not a well researched one. Once committed and this particular computer is available the issues are coming left and right. The errata sheets are available on a particular northbridge chip, but they don't tell the whole story, nor can one assume that having this information -from- the source will instantly lead to a solution. It gets worse since you start to get questions like "is it only when moving a large amount of data or when moving any data?" (just an example to illustrate how each question may lead to another).

If you know the difference between low level and high level knowledge, you can see just how many directions an investigation might go.

At this point so you don't think we're talking about a toy, I'll mention this involves an IBM partner and Soundblaster, 2 fairly familiar names in the industry. Such complicated things are involved as hardware interrupts, overruns, how this one chip might be affecting another where the problem actually lies.

You get the idea. In the end a workaround is discovered that makes things tolerable. Only much later does information come (yes published so absolutely public) that an NDA no longer prevented someone at Soundblaster to discuss their own error, understanding full well what and how this northbridge was made worse in conjunction with Soundblaster's issue.

 

If you require proof I can link you to death with 1st hand accounts, including the emails. Because if you get written permission to post such content, you can in my little world.

Otherwise I'm just saying that those who look at this one chip in Amico and conclude "they chose a piece of crap" really are not telling you about how much goes into this. Translation:a more powerful chip does not instantly equate to "everything is perfect now!"

Oh, and this applies to any comments about the s/w. How do you know everything is strictly related to something in s/w?

 

Finally, I am -not- saying the example above applies here. I just offer it to illustrate that conclusions made in forums tend to be somewhat simplistic.

Maybe somewhere down the road you'll get more info and therefore a better understanding of what went on inside Intellivision. Today is just not that day.

 

#6

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by number6
spelling

[mr_me]

35 minutes ago, rayik said:

We don’t know anything about developer relationships and use of money. It’s all speculation.  
 

All we know is nothing is released and what IE has stated.  The rest is our speculation.

 

I’ve been reading some of the Amico threads preserved on the Internet Archive. Later when I’m on a laptop I’ll post TT stating that everything he says is his personal opinion and is not considered official until it is confirmed by IE official statement or IE’s website. 

There are a couple of interviews of two different Amico developers, so you can read what they had to say.  There's an entire Amico video that had lots of comments from developers. 

 

The majority of funds coming from Republic/Fig is no secret.  The founding partners and other investors did put in some money prior to that.  People wonder where all the money went, well game development is one of them.