Downgrade Firmware Options

[derpnooner]

I have a Game Drive issue with sound glitching out specifically in NBA Jam TE.  I've not been able to find any help or solution to the problem on any forum and I'm irritated that I purchased this device.  200 bucks roughly and it can't play the one game I wanted it for (NBA Jam TE).  The audio dumps after 2-5 minutes of play into a scratchy mess.  No other problems on any other roms or legit carts with my Jaguar (I have Tempest 2000, Cybermorph, AVP, Rayman, Iron Soldier, Kasumi Ninja, Ultra Vortek and Doom as legitimate cartridges).  No one else online seems to have the same problem.  Tried formatting the SD card in FAT16, FAT32.  Tried to create smaller partitions.  Tried different SD cards.  I've cleaned the contacts and connectors, validated the caps are solid, replaced the REG1 and U38 chips, and still it messes up every time I try it.  I noticed on the latest firmware 1.12 that the audio glitching started almost immediately and I am curious if a downgrade of the firmware will resolve my issue.

At this point I'm willing to try anything -- I'm pretty frustrated and for the price I paid I'm extremely dissatisfied with my purchase.

Edited July 8, 2022 by derpnooner

[SainT]

Sorry you are having issues. There is not currently a simple downgrade option, but I agree it would be interesting to see if this changes anything for you. I need to sort something out to allow people to test odd issues like this.

 

I know different Jaguar consoles have different problems, it would be very interesting to know if you have issues with an original NBA Jam cart and this particular console. I have had Jaguars in the past which have hung on some games, but played others — and this from original carts.

 

CD support is another area which really highlights the differences in consoles. Some machines work extremely well, others barely at all. I don’t know if actual CD drive support on consoles which have an issue like this problematic or not. In short, the Jaguar console itself I have found to be extremely hit and miss, but I have not found any particular model or chip revision which is specifically a problem.

[+CyranoJ]

59 minutes ago, derpnooner said:

The audio dumps after 2-5 minutes of play into a scratchy mess. 

I had a Jag that did that. It also could not play Super Burnout - so might be worth testing that.

 

Tried a full recap and clean, but nope. The issue was a death's door DSP chip.  In the end, got rid of the board for spares.  I recall it made a rather loud buzzing noise as well (louder than the normal Jaguar buzz) - so worth checking if it does that as well.

[Zerosquare]

@CyranoJ: was it the same wonky Jag I sent you? I did replace the caps when attempting to fix it ; I think I remember it made the buzzing noise louder, so it may not be related to the fault.

 

@SainT: can you share the differences you've observed (possibly in another topic)? While there are some known instances of games working on some Jaguars and not others, I don't recall anything as unpredictable as what appears to affect the JagGD. There may be some still unknown effect at work here.

 

[+CyranoJ]

33 minutes ago, Zerosquare said:

@CyranoJ: was it the same wonky Jag I sent you? I did replace the caps when attempting to fix it ; I think I remember it made the buzzing noise louder, so it may not be related to the fault.

Yep, I called it Buzzy: Fractured Games

[derpnooner]

@CyranoJ, Super Burnout on the Game Drive works fine on my Jag.  No issues that I've seen playing for over thirty minutes at this point.  

@SainT, NBA Jam TE has a '3D Audio' splash screen on startup -- I wonder if this could be related.  

Are there any other games that show that '3D Audio' splash screen at startup that you're aware of?

[SainT]

My gut feeling for my failing Jag was also a DSP chip on its way out. Given the 3D audio will be intensive and hammering memory access it’s certainly going to be pushing it. The audio glitching could be the DSP crashing in some way.

 

I’ll still sort something to allow downgrading for you, it’s also possible a failing DSP is causing memory access timing to drift slightly and end up fetching incorrect data causing the glitch out. There have been issues with some Jaguars regarding memory access which causes them to hang entirely with the JagGD. There is one older firmware (pre-CD support) which is more stable with regard to memory access, so I’d definitely like you to test that one.

 

I’ll get onto it next week, please ping me if you’ve not heard back by midweek. I’ve got so much on at the moment, but I will definitely get this done for you.

[derpnooner]

@SainT, I appreciate the help.  Is there a way I can get debug (standard/err) out from the USB port on my cart?  I'd be happy to provide back if it could provide a clue to the issue.

[SainT]

The USB serial can be used for debugging, but in this case the most likely cause is marginal memory timing, which isn't something I can report on as such.

[SainT]

@derpnooner ok, that's now done. Go to the firmware update page via the link on the OPTIONS screen during boot. There are now additional "Download This Version" links for all firmware versions.

 

Try installing "Firmware V1.08, ASIC V1.06, Menu V1.05, Stub V1.03", this is the most stable in terms of memory access. Just drop the firmware.ovr file on the root of a memory card and boot the Jag with this card inserted. Once it has updated delete the file from the memory card, otherwise it will continually update the menu and stub.

 

Please let me know how you get on.

[derpnooner]

@SainT, okay, I was able to downgrade successfully to 1.08.  Played a full match (longer than I've ever gotten), but still ended up with the same audio issue thereafter.  I played AVP on the cart for over an hour with no issues afterward.  I upgraded back to 1.12 and tried again with similar issues except for NBA Jam hit the audio bug sooner than with 1.08.  I'm starting to wonder if these ROMs are any good.  I'm using what is supposed to be a 100% compatible, but some games run perfectly fine.

 

So far, I noticed Attack of the Mutant Penguins is also crashing (I am trying to make a list now), but not an audio bug like NBA Jam.  f I let it run in marquee mode by not pressing anything it will get to the gameplay demo on the second loop and will crash on the second iteration (once it just stopped at the black screen before loading, the second time it loaded the level and crashed displaying artifacts briefly until it crashed to black).  I then played AVP for an hour with no issue and let the Breakout 2000 marquee run for some time.  

 

I wish I had the cycles to get a full list sooner, but I'll try to gather something a bit more comprehensive.  I'll focus on the games that I physically own to see if I can replicate on the cart, but I haven't seen any other issues.  I'm going to do a 10 minute marquee check with each title and see if anything else shakes loose.

Thanks for the help.

Edited July 12, 2022 by derpnooner

[SainT]

Many thanks for the feedback! The ROM's themselves won't boot if they are bad (red screen), the Jaguar does an integrity check before executing, so that won't be an issue. Given you are experiencing the same issues with both firmware versions this is reinforcing my original suspicion that it is actually the console at fault.

 

Without a doubt the best thing to focus on would be if you can find any faults in original carts.

[+Sargon]

On 7/8/2022 at 5:07 PM, SainT said:

CD support is another area which really highlights the differences in consoles. Some machines work extremely well, others barely at all. I don’t know if actual CD drive support on consoles which have an issue like this problematic or not. In short, the Jaguar console itself I have found to be extremely hit and miss, but I have not found any particular model or chip revision which is specifically a problem.

I understand this is the case currently, and I fall somewhere in the middle - many CD games working, but some others that should be working aren't.  Do you have any ideas at all for how to improve compatibility across the board?

[SainT]

1 hour ago, Sargon said:

I understand this is the case currently, and I fall somewhere in the middle - many CD games working, but some others that should be working aren't.  Do you have any ideas at all for how to improve compatibility across the board?

Yes, I have a few ideas of what needs sorting. I just need to find the time to be able to spend a good couple of weeks without interruption getting stuck into it! The whole parts shortage issue has screwed up many things which have had to be dealt with rather than spending time doing more useful things like this. ?