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TF, camel, FB Forth fun


GDMike
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Testing SRAM today. I was able to get my limping SD card to format, but it's still sad..

Running my program, ScartUtil,.

All looking good. The last photo shows what the status is when I checked the Chip after pulling it out of the bag. Uninitialized status..

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Edited by GDMike
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Checked my used SRAM and found 1 bad.

I tried reseating it, and cleaning the pins, but yup... she's gone . I'd really like to access this ram, well, not this particular ram, but I'd like to access the memory location, but TurboForth won't allow me. I've been thinking of how I could change that.. but I can't because the TF cart is at that location.

 

IMG_20220720_132909054.jpg

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Edited by GDMike
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What if you had a utility Forth kernel that lived in RAM instead of the slot, for testing? :) 

 

image.png.578252cf6a606938d1d31ba06467169d.png

 

And with the program COMPARE (addr len  addr2 len2 --?) 

you can file the entire 8K low ram with a pattern, then fill the super cart with the same pattern

and COMPARE it in a second. :)

 

 

image.png.feab1dd060209462d2c0ff973d1596c9.png

 

Here is a Forth with these tools pre-compiled.

You can use it as you see fit for your Super Cart production line.

You can write up words to automate the testing as scripts.

Happy to help if you need it.

 

I have not tried this on real iron ... let me know if it works ok.

 

SUPERTEST.zip

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I really want to stick to TF because I have a bad issue with getting hooked with one and not returning. I have enough Human ram to try and understand one right at this moment. But yeah, I know Camel is out there and TI forth too. And actually I started out on ti forth in hmmm1982 I think it was and I had put a super cart type board together that had an LED on it that if I placed anything other than 0 at an address, the LED would pop on, but I can't remember what Chip I used, I'm guessing it was an 138' but I can't remember how or anything else about the circuit, all in ti Forth. I was just learning about forth and it's power, but I couldn't find a forth group at the time, a few of used to meet at the las Vegas power building for meetings once a month and discuss TI stuff, but no body knew Forth. I'm really thinking of asking Bob Carmany,  if he could tuck a SRAM socket into the TF  carts?? Or maybe Lee knows that answer, as he also has a cartridge eprom for FB forth.

I'm not sure how the addressing is in the carts but it might be worth asking him.

 

Edited by GDMike
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I didn't mean for you to change to Camel Forth. 

Just use two commands to test super cart.

 

FILL  and DUMP 

 

In other words it's just a test program with 2 commands (the same ones as TurboForth so nothing to learn)

 

 

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13 minutes ago, TheBF said:

I didn't mean for you to change to Camel Forth. 

Just use two commands to test super cart.

 

FILL  and DUMP 

 

In other words it's just a test program with 2 commands (the same ones as TurboForth so nothing to learn)

 

 

I adjusted my last post to include fb forth. It too uses a cart eprom.  I'm just wondering if SRAM could be added at the >6000;->7FFF address like the editor assembler Grom was added to supercart. It's a long shot...

But...I'm probably going to have to bail on TF if I can't get that address free.

And actually I would switch to Camel or TI Forth, but I think TI forth is just not a good choice while Camel exists.

I know that that>6000 address is usually referenced by the program loader, but multiple loaders can use that space for loading, the FB forth menu would still be there to load the fb program just like the editor assembler menu is still available for the ea cart, but also leaving the rest of the SRAM space empty.?? I guess that's what I'm wondering.

Edited by GDMike
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2 hours ago, TheBF said:

What if you had a utility Forth kernel that lived in RAM instead of the slot, for testing? :) 

 

image.png.578252cf6a606938d1d31ba06467169d.png

 

And with the program COMPARE (addr len  addr2 len2 --?) 

you can file the entire 8K low ram with a pattern, then fill the super cart with the same pattern

and COMPARE it in a second. :)

 

 

image.png.feab1dd060209462d2c0ff973d1596c9.png

 

Here is a Forth with these tools pre-compiled.

You can use it as you see fit for your Super Cart production line.

You can write up words to automate the testing as scripts.

Happy to help if you need it.

 

I have not tried this on real iron ... let me know if it works ok.

 

SUPERTEST.zip 7.86 kB · 2 downloads

I'll run it this evening. Thx 

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I'll need to dig up camel and start playing with it. It doesn't take much to make me happy, just give me access to the ram so I can make other stuff work, like my supercarts. But I love TF too., And of course FB forth. But I've only got energy to learn one and hopefully stick to it .

..I'm still having TF fun because I've got programs written in TF. Now I'll need to find another guide to print out that will help me.

 

 

 

Edited by GDMike
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The good news is that at the high level they are very similar and... you have all three authors on hot standby!  :)

So if you need to play inside the supercart RAM use mine. Other wise use a cart based Forth.

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, GDMike said:

I'll need to dig up camel and start playing with it. It doesn't take much to make me happy, just give me access to the ram so I can make other stuff work, like my supercarts. But I love TF too., And of course FB forth. But I've only got energy to learn one and hopefully stick to it .

..I'm still having TF fun because I've got programs written in TF. Now I'll need to find another guide to print out that will help me.

 

 

 

If you ever need to see some examples:

A pile of demo programs are here

CAMEL99-ITC/DEMO at master · bfox9900/CAMEL99-ITC · GitHub

 

Docs are here

CAMEL99-ITC/DOCS at master · bfox9900/CAMEL99-ITC · GitHub

 

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5 hours ago, GDMike said:

I know that that>6000 address is usually referenced by the program loader, but multiple loaders can use that space for loading, the FB forth menu would still be there to load the fb program just like the editor assembler menu is still available for the ea cart, but also leaving the rest of the SRAM space empty.?? I guess that's what I'm wondering.

 

fbForth 2.0 and higher are definitely married to cartridge space and use the entire >6000 – >7FFF cartridge space. fbForth 1.0 is RAM based, so should work the way you want. But, there is a world of difference between the cartridge and RAM versions.

 

...lee

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1 minute ago, Lee Stewart said:

 

fbForth 2.0 and higher are definitely married to cartridge space and use the entire >6000 – >7FFF cartridge space. fbForth 1.0 is RAM based, so should work the way you want. But, there is a world of difference between the cartridge and RAM versions.

 

...lee

So fbForth 1.0 is like a fixed up TI-Forth?

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5 hours ago, GDMike said:

 

But...I'm probably going to have to bail on TF if I can't get that address free.

I forgot to ask. What is the program you want to make?

And Turbo Forth has 8K of space available at >2000 rather than >6000

Could you do the same thing in Low RAM?

 

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Yeah, >6000 to >7fff is cart ROM space, right? (It's been a while!) - there's no way you can get around that with TF.

 

Use one of the other Forths, or roll your own assembly language test program. Wouldn't take much. We can help you with either.

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The reason I'm so stuck on that>6000 - space is because that area can be pushed to battery backed SRAM and removable.

I don't have a direct app yet for doing this, but I'm working in this area with hardware and maybe one day I'll have something that can add to SNP, which BTW, can read that cart space and treat it as executable code OR just transferable data, or maybe more.. but, it's fine, Camel would be super for this.

 

Well, gotta get those docs from you and start doing some learning. And yes, at least it might be a smooth learning curve, plus I had more to learn about TF anyway, so it's fine, no! It's a great Forth day. Imagine that, I have a choice of Forths.

 

 

 

 

Edited by GDMike
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I don't know if you have an f18 card (I think you do) so in that case you can use the 80 column editor EDIT80  that is on DSK2.ITC.

It is the re-worked version of the E/A editor. ( Fred do that version?)

Much better and 80 columns makes it easier to see the code.

The 40 column version is there too.

CAMEL99-ITC/DSK2.ITC at master · bfox9900/CAMEL99-ITC (github.com)

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Getting errors, I placed the kernel in both my disk 4 (work drive),and disk 1 drives and tried booting..

Err. All support files of disk 1 have been extracted to disk 1. I tried calling "WORDS" and received nothing.

Yes, I have f18A. That'll be nice to use the 80 COL editor like FB forth and TF.

 

IMG_20220721_120342187.jpg

Edited by GDMike
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That's a pretty old version.

Looks like either the LOADSAVE file is not on your DSK1.  or  FONT0230 file is not on your DSK1.

 

I should give you the newest stuff I have. 

You can download everything from Github but maybe an ARC file the easiest way for you to get a new version on your system?

Let me know what would be best for you.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, GDMike said:

Getting errors, I placed the kernel in both my disk 4 (work drive),and disk 1 drives and tried booting..

Err. All support files of disk 1 have been extracted to disk 1.

I tried calling "WORDS" and received nothing.

Yes, I have f18A. That'll be nice to use the 80 COL editor like FB forth and TF.

 

 

Camel99 is a micro kernel.  It has the only the "core" words.  After that you INCLUDE a library file.

To have WORDS and DUMP . S  etc.  type:  INCLUDE DSK1.TOOLS.

 

Here is the doc with the library files 

CAMEL99-ITC/CAMEL99 LIBRARY REFERENCE.pdf at master · bfox9900/CAMEL99-ITC (github.com)

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Ok. I'll grab the docs too. I get little 5 -10 min breaks around here for time.. and I do what time allows. Finished a bathroom caulking job this morning, so yeah, a lot to do all the time. Just trying to get to my hobby though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here I've presented some F18A documentation regarding the registers and usage.

Can we or if someone has time, create f18A related words that would help with smooth scrolling, better quality characters or sprites and such?? Is that possible?

F18A documentation.pdf f18a_register_use.zip

 

The question was raised so i figured to post it here also.

 

"Has anyone developed a Forth library for the F18A for game developers? This could include multi color characters and sprites, smooth scrolling, access to tile layer 2, access to bitmap layer, and maybe a way to split the screen using the GPU. 

Edit: and support for editing  the color palette of course".

 

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