GDMike Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) Testing SRAM today. I was able to get my limping SD card to format, but it's still sad.. Running my program, ScartUtil,. All looking good. The last photo shows what the status is when I checked the Chip after pulling it out of the bag. Uninitialized status.. Edited July 20, 2022 by GDMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) Checked my used SRAM and found 1 bad. I tried reseating it, and cleaning the pins, but yup... she's gone . I'd really like to access this ram, well, not this particular ram, but I'd like to access the memory location, but TurboForth won't allow me. I've been thinking of how I could change that.. but I can't because the TF cart is at that location. Edited July 20, 2022 by GDMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 What if you had a utility Forth kernel that lived in RAM instead of the slot, for testing? And with the program COMPARE (addr len addr2 len2 --?) you can file the entire 8K low ram with a pattern, then fill the super cart with the same pattern and COMPARE it in a second. Here is a Forth with these tools pre-compiled. You can use it as you see fit for your Super Cart production line. You can write up words to automate the testing as scripts. Happy to help if you need it. I have not tried this on real iron ... let me know if it works ok. SUPERTEST.zip 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) I really want to stick to TF because I have a bad issue with getting hooked with one and not returning. I have enough Human ram to try and understand one right at this moment. But yeah, I know Camel is out there and TI forth too. And actually I started out on ti forth in hmmm1982 I think it was and I had put a super cart type board together that had an LED on it that if I placed anything other than 0 at an address, the LED would pop on, but I can't remember what Chip I used, I'm guessing it was an 138' but I can't remember how or anything else about the circuit, all in ti Forth. I was just learning about forth and it's power, but I couldn't find a forth group at the time, a few of used to meet at the las Vegas power building for meetings once a month and discuss TI stuff, but no body knew Forth. I'm really thinking of asking Bob Carmany, if he could tuck a SRAM socket into the TF carts?? Or maybe Lee knows that answer, as he also has a cartridge eprom for FB forth. I'm not sure how the addressing is in the carts but it might be worth asking him. Edited July 20, 2022 by GDMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 I didn't mean for you to change to Camel Forth. Just use two commands to test super cart. FILL and DUMP In other words it's just a test program with 2 commands (the same ones as TurboForth so nothing to learn) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TheBF said: I didn't mean for you to change to Camel Forth. Just use two commands to test super cart. FILL and DUMP In other words it's just a test program with 2 commands (the same ones as TurboForth so nothing to learn) I adjusted my last post to include fb forth. It too uses a cart eprom. I'm just wondering if SRAM could be added at the >6000;->7FFF address like the editor assembler Grom was added to supercart. It's a long shot... But...I'm probably going to have to bail on TF if I can't get that address free. And actually I would switch to Camel or TI Forth, but I think TI forth is just not a good choice while Camel exists. I know that that>6000 address is usually referenced by the program loader, but multiple loaders can use that space for loading, the FB forth menu would still be there to load the fb program just like the editor assembler menu is still available for the ea cart, but also leaving the rest of the SRAM space empty.?? I guess that's what I'm wondering. Edited July 20, 2022 by GDMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 Edited POST #31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 2 hours ago, TheBF said: What if you had a utility Forth kernel that lived in RAM instead of the slot, for testing? And with the program COMPARE (addr len addr2 len2 --?) you can file the entire 8K low ram with a pattern, then fill the super cart with the same pattern and COMPARE it in a second. Here is a Forth with these tools pre-compiled. You can use it as you see fit for your Super Cart production line. You can write up words to automate the testing as scripts. Happy to help if you need it. I have not tried this on real iron ... let me know if it works ok. SUPERTEST.zip 7.86 kB · 2 downloads I'll run it this evening. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 Yes, the data write/ collection is quick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) I'll need to dig up camel and start playing with it. It doesn't take much to make me happy, just give me access to the ram so I can make other stuff work, like my supercarts. But I love TF too., And of course FB forth. But I've only got energy to learn one and hopefully stick to it . ..I'm still having TF fun because I've got programs written in TF. Now I'll need to find another guide to print out that will help me. Edited July 21, 2022 by GDMike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 The good news is that at the high level they are very similar and... you have all three authors on hot standby! So if you need to play inside the supercart RAM use mine. Other wise use a cart based Forth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 Its all good, I just would like that ram space opened up. A good forth is forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, GDMike said: I'll need to dig up camel and start playing with it. It doesn't take much to make me happy, just give me access to the ram so I can make other stuff work, like my supercarts. But I love TF too., And of course FB forth. But I've only got energy to learn one and hopefully stick to it . ..I'm still having TF fun because I've got programs written in TF. Now I'll need to find another guide to print out that will help me. If you ever need to see some examples: A pile of demo programs are here CAMEL99-ITC/DEMO at master · bfox9900/CAMEL99-ITC · GitHub Docs are here CAMEL99-ITC/DOCS at master · bfox9900/CAMEL99-ITC · GitHub 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 5 hours ago, GDMike said: I know that that>6000 address is usually referenced by the program loader, but multiple loaders can use that space for loading, the FB forth menu would still be there to load the fb program just like the editor assembler menu is still available for the ea cart, but also leaving the rest of the SRAM space empty.?? I guess that's what I'm wondering. fbForth 2.0 and higher are definitely married to cartridge space and use the entire >6000 – >7FFF cartridge space. fbForth 1.0 is RAM based, so should work the way you want. But, there is a world of difference between the cartridge and RAM versions. ...lee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Lee Stewart said: fbForth 2.0 and higher are definitely married to cartridge space and use the entire >6000 – >7FFF cartridge space. fbForth 1.0 is RAM based, so should work the way you want. But, there is a world of difference between the cartridge and RAM versions. ...lee So fbForth 1.0 is like a fixed up TI-Forth? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lee Stewart Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, TheBF said: So fbForth 1.0 is like a fixed up TI-Forth? Yes. Its big thing is the file-based block system instead of the sector-based block system of TI Forth. ...lee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 5 hours ago, GDMike said: But...I'm probably going to have to bail on TF if I can't get that address free. I forgot to ask. What is the program you want to make? And Turbo Forth has 8K of space available at >2000 rather than >6000 Could you do the same thing in Low RAM? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Yeah, >6000 to >7fff is cart ROM space, right? (It's been a while!) - there's no way you can get around that with TF. Use one of the other Forths, or roll your own assembly language test program. Wouldn't take much. We can help you with either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) The reason I'm so stuck on that>6000 - space is because that area can be pushed to battery backed SRAM and removable. I don't have a direct app yet for doing this, but I'm working in this area with hardware and maybe one day I'll have something that can add to SNP, which BTW, can read that cart space and treat it as executable code OR just transferable data, or maybe more.. but, it's fine, Camel would be super for this. Well, gotta get those docs from you and start doing some learning. And yes, at least it might be a smooth learning curve, plus I had more to learn about TF anyway, so it's fine, no! It's a great Forth day. Imagine that, I have a choice of Forths. Edited July 21, 2022 by GDMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 I don't know if you have an f18 card (I think you do) so in that case you can use the 80 column editor EDIT80 that is on DSK2.ITC. It is the re-worked version of the E/A editor. ( Fred do that version?) Much better and 80 columns makes it easier to see the code. The 40 column version is there too. CAMEL99-ITC/DSK2.ITC at master · bfox9900/CAMEL99-ITC (github.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) Getting errors, I placed the kernel in both my disk 4 (work drive),and disk 1 drives and tried booting.. Err. All support files of disk 1 have been extracted to disk 1. I tried calling "WORDS" and received nothing. Yes, I have f18A. That'll be nice to use the 80 COL editor like FB forth and TF. Edited July 21, 2022 by GDMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 That's a pretty old version. Looks like either the LOADSAVE file is not on your DSK1. or FONT0230 file is not on your DSK1. I should give you the newest stuff I have. You can download everything from Github but maybe an ARC file the easiest way for you to get a new version on your system? Let me know what would be best for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TheBF Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 28 minutes ago, GDMike said: Getting errors, I placed the kernel in both my disk 4 (work drive),and disk 1 drives and tried booting.. Err. All support files of disk 1 have been extracted to disk 1. I tried calling "WORDS" and received nothing. Yes, I have f18A. That'll be nice to use the 80 COL editor like FB forth and TF. Camel99 is a micro kernel. It has the only the "core" words. After that you INCLUDE a library file. To have WORDS and DUMP . S etc. type: INCLUDE DSK1.TOOLS. Here is the doc with the library files CAMEL99-ITC/CAMEL99 LIBRARY REFERENCE.pdf at master · bfox9900/CAMEL99-ITC (github.com) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 Ok. I'll grab the docs too. I get little 5 -10 min breaks around here for time.. and I do what time allows. Finished a bathroom caulking job this morning, so yeah, a lot to do all the time. Just trying to get to my hobby though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDMike Posted July 30, 2022 Author Share Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) Here I've presented some F18A documentation regarding the registers and usage. Can we or if someone has time, create f18A related words that would help with smooth scrolling, better quality characters or sprites and such?? Is that possible? F18A documentation.pdf f18a_register_use.zip The question was raised so i figured to post it here also. "Has anyone developed a Forth library for the F18A for game developers? This could include multi color characters and sprites, smooth scrolling, access to tile layer 2, access to bitmap layer, and maybe a way to split the screen using the GPU. Edit: and support for editing the color palette of course". Edited July 30, 2022 by GDMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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