Kirk_Johnston Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) I'm just curious, out of the hundreds of Genesis games out there, does anyone know how many of them had stereo sound, give or take? And, I just mean, if they were plugged into a regular TV capable of stereo, they'd play in actual stereo as listened to normally coming out of the speakers. Similarly, I know the Model 1 was mono in normal use through the TV using the standard cables that came in the box, but the later models were stereo in normal use through the TV (presumably using the standard cables that came in the box), so does anyone have actual concrete numbers for how many Model 1 systems sold worldwide vs Model 2 plus Model 3 systems? Edited July 20, 2022 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) I didn't know they made any Genesis games that were only mono audio. Even if you didn't know how to hook up the model 1's jack to your stereo (not sure they had too many stereo TVs back then?), I remember them advertising the fact that you could plug in headphones and get that sweet, sweet stereo. Edited July 20, 2022 by Asaki 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Asaki said: I didn't know they made any Genesis games that were only mono audio. Even if you didn't know how to hook up the model 1's jack to your stereo (not sure they had too many stereo TVs back then?), I remember them advertising the fact that you could plug in headphones and get that sweet, sweet stereo. Well, I don't know if they did or didn't release any games in mono or how many in stereo, so that's why I'm asking if anyone else knows. And I specifically mean as heard through the TV speakers in this particular example (and let's assume the TV is capable of stereo). I know it's possible to use the headphones for stereo though. Edited July 20, 2022 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 FWIW you have to use A/V inputs because stereo RF modulators weren't a thing until the late '90s, and then only as separate units. It's also dependent upon the local system, the US used MTS, other countries used other systems. Also I did not realize until a couple of years ago that the PSG audio (the Colecovision TI chip) is only hooked up to one (left?) channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 6 hours ago, Bruce Tomlin said: FWIW you have to use A/V inputs because stereo RF modulators weren't a thing until the late '90s, and then only as separate units. It's also dependent upon the local system, the US used MTS, other countries used other systems. Also I did not realize until a couple of years ago that the PSG audio (the Colecovision TI chip) is only hooked up to one (left?) channel. Is the PSG the chip used for the legacy Master System sound? And you're saying that's basically always in mono? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Joe Redifer with Game Sack deserves the credit for this list where he went through the games and found the following in mono. To qualify both sound and music had to be in mono as I understand it. Genesis games in mono: After Burner II Air Diver Aladdin Altered Beast Aquatic Games starring James Pond and the Aquabats Arch Rivals: The Arcade Game Ariel: Disney's The Little Mermaid Atomic Robo-Kid Batman Returns (cartridge version) Batman: Revenge of the Joker Battle Squadron BattleMaster Blaster Master 2 Boxing Legends of the Ring Bubsy in Claws Encounters of the Furred Kind Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday Cadash Cal Ripkin Jr. Baseball Centurion: Defender of Rome Chakan the Forever Man Championship Bowling Championship Pro Am Chester Cheetah: Too Cool to Fool Clue Crossfire Cyberball Dark Castle Darwin 4081 David Crane's Amazing Tennis David Robinson's Supreme Court Davis Cup Tennis Deadly Moves Desert Strike: Return to the Gulf Double Dragon Double Dragon II: The Revenge Duel: Test Drive 2 Faery Tale Adventure Fantasia Fatal Labyrinth Fatal Rewind Ferrari Grand Prix Challenge Formula 1: F1 Gadget Twins Games: Winter Challenge Gods Golden Axe Greendog: Beached Surfer Dude Hard Drivin' Hardball! HardBall III Haunting starring Polterguy Hit the Ice Immortal Ishido: The Way of the Stones James Pond: Underwater Agent James Pond II: Codename Robocod Jeopardy! Joe Montana Football Joe Montana II: Sports Talk Football John Madden Football Jordon vs Bird: Super One on One Jungle Strike: The Sequel to Desert Strike Jurassic Park King's Bounty Klax (Tengen version, Namco version is in stereo) Lotus Turbo Challenge M1 Abrams Battle Tank Marble Madness (EA version, Tengen version is stereo) Micro Machines Mig-29: Fighter Pilot Might and Magic: Gates to Another World Mike Ditka Power Football MLBPA Sports Talk Baseball Mr. Otsomatsu Ms. Pac Man Muhammad Ali Heavyweight Boxing Mystical Fighter NBA All-Star Challenge New Zealand Story NFL Football '94 starring Joe Montana NFL Sportstalk Football '93 starring Joe Montana NHL Hockey NHLPA Hockey 93 Out of this World OutLander Paper Boy PGA Tour Golf PGA Tour Golf II Pit-Fighter Populous Pro Quarterback Rainbow Islands Rampart RBI Baseball 3 RBI Baseball 4 RBI Baseball '93 Road Blasters Road Rash Road Rash II Rolo to the Rescue Shadow of the Beast Shove It! The Warehouse Game Simpsons: Bart vs The Space Mutants Slaughter Sport Soldiers of Fortune SpeedBall 2: Brutal Deluxe Spiderman & X-Men: Arcade's Revenge Star Control Starflight Steel Talons Stormlord Street Fighter 2 Special Champion Edition Strider Super Off Road Super Volleyball Sword of Sodan Syd of Valis TaleSpin Task Force Harrier EX Technocop ToeJam & Earl Tony LaRussa Baseball Top Gear 2 Toy Story Uncharted Waters Wardner Warp Speed Wheel of Fortune Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego? Wrestle War WWF Super Wrestlemania X-Men Zero Tolerance Sega CD games: Corpse Killer (both normal and 32X versions) Dracula Unleashed Dragon's Lair ESPN Sunday Night NFL Fahrenheit (both normal and 32X versions) Ground Zero Texas INX Make My Video Links: The Challenge of Golf Night Trap Road Rash Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective Volume 2 Space Ace Star Wars Chess Star Wars Rebel Assault Tomcat Alley 32X games in mono: Golf Magazine presents 36 Great Holes starring Fred Couples 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaki Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 13 hours ago, Bruce Tomlin said: FWIW you have to use A/V inputs because stereo RF modulators weren't a thing until the late '90s, and then only as separate units. It's also dependent upon the local system, the US used MTS, other countries used other systems. Ah, I didn't even think of RF, I was a bit confused by his question. I was just thinking RCA. 1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Joe Redifer with Game Sack deserves the credit for this list where he went through the games and found the following in mono. To qualify both sound and music had to be in mono as I understand it. Wow, that's a lot more games than I thought. Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention, but I could swear a lot of these games were in stereo (especially the Sega CD ones)...guess I need to give them another listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 I'm kind of surprised ANY sega CD games were mono...wasn't the "sound" the big draw for that system? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Joe Redifer with Game Sack deserves the credit for this list where he went through the games and found the following in mono. To qualify both sound and music had to be in mono as I understand it. Genesis games in mono: After Burner II Air Diver Aladdin Altered Beast Aquatic Games starring James Pond and the Aquabats Arch Rivals: The Arcade Game Ariel: Disney's The Little Mermaid Atomic Robo-Kid Batman Returns (cartridge version) Batman: Revenge of the Joker Battle Squadron BattleMaster Blaster Master 2 Boxing Legends of the Ring Bubsy in Claws Encounters of the Furred Kind Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday Cadash Cal Ripkin Jr. Baseball Centurion: Defender of Rome Chakan the Forever Man Championship Bowling Championship Pro Am Chester Cheetah: Too Cool to Fool Clue Crossfire Cyberball Dark Castle Darwin 4081 David Crane's Amazing Tennis David Robinson's Supreme Court Davis Cup Tennis Deadly Moves Desert Strike: Return to the Gulf Double Dragon Double Dragon II: The Revenge Duel: Test Drive 2 Faery Tale Adventure Fantasia Fatal Labyrinth Fatal Rewind Ferrari Grand Prix Challenge Formula 1: F1 Gadget Twins Games: Winter Challenge Gods Golden Axe Greendog: Beached Surfer Dude Hard Drivin' Hardball! HardBall III Haunting starring Polterguy Hit the Ice Immortal Ishido: The Way of the Stones James Pond: Underwater Agent James Pond II: Codename Robocod Jeopardy! Joe Montana Football Joe Montana II: Sports Talk Football John Madden Football Jordon vs Bird: Super One on One Jungle Strike: The Sequel to Desert Strike Jurassic Park King's Bounty Klax (Tengen version, Namco version is in stereo) Lotus Turbo Challenge M1 Abrams Battle Tank Marble Madness (EA version, Tengen version is stereo) Micro Machines Mig-29: Fighter Pilot Might and Magic: Gates to Another World Mike Ditka Power Football MLBPA Sports Talk Baseball Mr. Otsomatsu Ms. Pac Man Muhammad Ali Heavyweight Boxing Mystical Fighter NBA All-Star Challenge New Zealand Story NFL Football '94 starring Joe Montana NFL Sportstalk Football '93 starring Joe Montana NHL Hockey NHLPA Hockey 93 Out of this World OutLander Paper Boy PGA Tour Golf PGA Tour Golf II Pit-Fighter Populous Pro Quarterback Rainbow Islands Rampart RBI Baseball 3 RBI Baseball 4 RBI Baseball '93 Road Blasters Road Rash Road Rash II Rolo to the Rescue Shadow of the Beast Shove It! The Warehouse Game Simpsons: Bart vs The Space Mutants Slaughter Sport Soldiers of Fortune SpeedBall 2: Brutal Deluxe Spiderman & X-Men: Arcade's Revenge Star Control Starflight Steel Talons Stormlord Street Fighter 2 Special Champion Edition Strider Super Off Road Super Volleyball Sword of Sodan Syd of Valis TaleSpin Task Force Harrier EX Technocop ToeJam & Earl Tony LaRussa Baseball Top Gear 2 Toy Story Uncharted Waters Wardner Warp Speed Wheel of Fortune Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego? Wrestle War WWF Super Wrestlemania X-Men Zero Tolerance Sega CD games: Corpse Killer (both normal and 32X versions) Dracula Unleashed Dragon's Lair ESPN Sunday Night NFL Fahrenheit (both normal and 32X versions) Ground Zero Texas INX Make My Video Links: The Challenge of Golf Night Trap Road Rash Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective Volume 2 Space Ace Star Wars Chess Star Wars Rebel Assault Tomcat Alley 32X games in mono: Golf Magazine presents 36 Great Holes starring Fred Couples Yeah, that's not too bad. Out of the 713 games officially released for Genesis according to Wiki (a bit more these days), it's really only a small percentage. Well, around 1/5th of the library. For a long time, I just assumed most of the games would have been made in mono since that's how most people would have been listening to them, at least on the Model 1 system anyway (don't think many people actually bothered with the headphones there). Maybe most of the games were in mono until the Genesis Model 2 came out, and then developers largely switched across to stereo after that, which could somewhat accounts for the numbers. I'd still be interested to learn how many Model 1 systems there were vs Model 2 and Model 3 combined, to see how the rough balance was between people playing in mono vs people playing in stereo. Edited July 21, 2022 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Bruce Tomlin said: FWIW you have to use A/V inputs because stereo RF modulators weren't a thing until the late '90s, and then only as separate units. It's also dependent upon the local system, the US used MTS, other countries used other systems. Also I did not realize until a couple of years ago that the PSG audio (the Colecovision TI chip) is only hooked up to one (left?) channel. The Model 1 and Model 2 systems came with the cables required for stereo output in the box though, right? Edit: I meant to say Model 2 and Model 3. Edited July 21, 2022 by Kirk_Johnston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, Kirk_Johnston said: The Model 1 and Model 2 systems came with the cables required for stereo output in the box though, right? The model 1 didn't as the AV output on the model 1 is a MONO output only. And I'm pretty sure they didn't come with any cables for using the headphone jack on the front. Now...when the SegaCD systems were released, they did include a patch cable for use with the model 1 that you did plug into the headphone port and then into the audio mix in on the segaCD. But that was to make it easier to get stereo output since the SegaCD had actual RCA outputs on it. But... it wasn't required since all the audio could still pass through the Genesis and through the AV out port although only in Mono. Stereo output was included on the newer 9-pin din that was used on the model 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 Just now, -^CrossBow^- said: The model 1 didn't as the AV output on the model 1 is a MONO output only. And I'm pretty sure they didn't come with any cables for using the headphone jack on the front. Now...when the SegaCD systems were released, they did include a patch cable for use with the model 1 that you did plug into the headphone port and then into the audio mix in on the segaCD. But that was to make it easier to get stereo output since the SegaCD had actual RCA outputs on it. But... it wasn't required since all the audio could still pass through the Genesis and through the AV out port although only in Mono. Stereo output was included on the newer 9-pin din that was used on the model 2. Sorry, I actually meant to say Model 2 and Model 3 there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 I've heard the model 3 was mono output also although it did have the 9-pin. But I don't own the model 3 myself to confirm this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk_Johnston Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said: I've heard the model 3 was mono output also although it did have the 9-pin. But I don't own the model 3 myself to confirm this. Yeah, a quick Google search confirms the Model 3 was mono output. Do you know if Brazil got the Model 2? I know it got the Model 1 and Model 3, but I'm not sure if it got the Model 2, which would be a shame if they didn't also get the model with stereo. Edited July 21, 2022 by Kirk_Johnston 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskar42 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 With model 1 you could use the headphone jack to connect to a stereo system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Something I noticed in watching a recent Gamesack episode, is that Joe mentioned one of the games in that video for SegaCD as only having mono sound. I then thought about it and is did make sense. Due to the size of the cutscenes etc... I'm guessing the music on some of those RPGs was not actual redbook audio and was instead some compressed PCM stuff that was going through the PCM channel of the Genesis...hence mono audio on the music. And yeah, when I think about it more, the music on those games isn't as crisp and clear as say... Sonic CD when I pop it in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 There's only one lens, so you can't do anything else with the CD while playing redbook audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 On 7/27/2022 at 12:56 PM, -^CrossBow^- said: Something I noticed in watching a recent Gamesack episode, is that Joe mentioned one of the games in that video for SegaCD as only having mono sound. I then thought about it and is did make sense. Due to the size of the cutscenes etc... I'm guessing the music on some of those RPGs was not actual redbook audio and was instead some compressed PCM stuff that was going through the PCM channel of the Genesis...hence mono audio on the music. And yeah, when I think about it more, the music on those games isn't as crisp and clear as say... Sonic CD when I pop it in. Ys Book 1+2 did this on the Turbo CD when the Duo launched. The long main audio tracks were CD audio, but the stuff like under 30seconds were never tracks, they were just short clips of audio from the internal sound processor (ADPCM audio) such as when Adol would pick up an item and it would do that 10sec or so yay got an item jingle (like zelda chests do.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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