Trying to network 9 vintage computers together...

[thegenerallee86]

I would like to try and network all of these computers together:

• IBM NetVista 8303 Pentium 4
• PowerMac G4
• Compaq Deskpro ENS Pentium III
• Emachines T1090
• IBM 300 PL Pentium III
• IBM PC Series 350 P75
• IBM 5150
• IBM 5170XT
• Macintosh Classic I
• Macintosh Classic II

So I can transfer files between them all and also be expandable to more computers and connect my Main computer as well. I have already bought 2 Hubs because I was not sure which one to get so I could do it but I bought these 2 Hubs/Switches:

• Linksys By Cisco EtherFast (EZXS16W) 16-Ports Workgroup Switch Ver 2.3
• NetGear ProSafe (FS116) 16-Ports 10/100 Ethernet Switch Tested

I also bought 10 7ft Lengths of Cat5 ethernet cable, though I will need more when I get the rest of computers I plan to get to finish my collections which are these, Which I will also be planning to network as well:

• IBM 5170 AT
• IBM PS/2 Model 70
• IBM 486
• IBM Aptiva Pentium II
• IBM Aptiva Pentium 166Mhz

What do you guys think and what else should I get to do this? I know it will be hard but I would like the challenge.

[mr_me]

Do you have an 8-bit ISA ethernet card with dos drivers for the 5150.  Does the 5170xt have 16-bit slots.  Not too familar with Macs but I know Windows NT Server supports Appletalk.

 

Edit:  And does the 5150 have a hard drive.  I don't see DOS networking running from floppies.

Edited July 23, 2022 by mr_me

[thegenerallee86]

24 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Do you have an 8-bit ISA ethernet card with dos drivers for the 5150.  Does the 5170xt have 16-bit slots.  Not too familar with Macs but I know Windows NT Server supports Appletalk.

 

Edit:  And does the 5150 have a hard drive.  I don't see DOS networking running from floppies.

No I have to get one and yes the 5150 does have a HDD but whether it works is another question I am still working on my 5150 but the 5160XT does work and has HDD but only 1 5.25 driver and no 3.5 floppy drive like my 5150 has though.

[wierd_w]

The model 70 will be a problem.

 

It is MCA, and finding a suitable board AND its ADF diskette may prove untenable within any sane person's budget.

 

You might end up needing to kludge on a Xircom lpt based 'ethernet' adapter.

 

 

But, i could also be mistaken.

 

The bigger problem with the XT class systems, is the inability to address >1MB memory without EMS, and the hunger for RAM that dos networking stacks have.

 

I understand it is possible, but that XT is gonna have a hard time. Better have a dynamic boot menu with network support being the secondary option.

 

The others can all reasonably live together fine. The Mac Classic systems will need to live behind an asante (or other brand) bridge, and will need a small localtalk segment.

 

Mr_Me is correct that nt4 server has services for macintosh, but a win2k box also supports that feature, and would be a good fit for the PII era boxes in your list. Be apprised that local talk is ... painful slow..

 

The G4 has native ethernet, and depending on the OS running, should speak either ethertalk or SMB natively with little fuss.

 

 

Your topology would have the classic macs connected to each other and the asante bridge via phonenet. [feature cards for classic macs are pure unobtainium, and very few ethernet boards were made. PhoneNet was cheap, plentiful, and what most macheads used.] The asante bridge would be connected to the local hub. The other devices all have native ethernet of some form. Most XT 8bit ethernet cards will be 10base-2 cards with coax and AUI. You may need a hybrid 10-base hub, coax BNC cable, T connectors, and terminators-- or a bunch of AUI 10base-T transponders.

 

 

This is not going to be a cheap project.

 

I am, amusingly, familiar with all of these retro networking gadgets, so whatever approach you decide on, i can assist.

Edited July 24, 2022 by wierd_w

[The Usotsuki]

Intel EtherExpress 8/16? That's my Ethernet card of choice for XTs.

[wierd_w]

Still a 10base-2 + AUI card.  Just flexible about what kind of slot you stuff it in.  The high quality DOS support 3COM had back in the day is probably worth the extra price though.

 

For AT class systems, I always had very good luck with 3Com Etherlink III's

 

As for the "Getting the drivers on, with MFM/RLL controller, and only 360k diskette drive", Consider getting a laplink cable, and pulling the dos version of FastLynx.  It works JUST FINE on XT class systems, and if you cut the help file from the diskette, will fit neatly on a 360k diskette.

Google for "FX.ZIP".  technically, it is stil being sold/supported by sewell direct. In reality, they are pushing modern FX 3.0,  which will NOT work on XTs.

 

Hunting for the old version is worth it though. Works with both serial and parallel versions of laplink cables, and does data integrity checking during transfer. Very handy for this purpose, until you can get the systems ON the network.

Edited July 24, 2022 by wierd_w

[mr_me]

I have a 16-bit Dlink de220p.  Apparently it supports 8-bit slots too, didn't know that.  So there should be some rj45 ethernet options out there.

 

Then you have people making new 8-bit ethernet cards today!

https://www.tindie.com/products/weird/isa-8-bit-ethernet-controller/

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by mr_me

[wierd_w]

the community brew "ne2000" might be a good shot.

 

the realtek 8019 dos drivers would probably 'just work'

https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/rtl8019as-software

 

 

[H454]

On 7/23/2022 at 6:21 AM, thegenerallee86 said:

I would like to try and network all of these computers together:

• IBM NetVista 8303 Pentium 4
• PowerMac G4
• Compaq Deskpro ENS Pentium III
• Emachines T1090
• IBM 300 PL Pentium III
• IBM PC Series 350 P75
• IBM 5150
• IBM 5170XT
• Macintosh Classic I
• Macintosh Classic II
• IBM 5170 AT
• IBM PS/2 Model 70
• IBM 486
• IBM Aptiva Pentium II
• IBM Aptiva Pentium 166Mhz

 

 

[Flojomojo]

You will want to dig up a networking book from the 1990s, read up on the OSI model, and think about exactly what you want out of this. Assuming you have Ethernet hardware for everything, they can all talk TCP/IP with the right software. If you want to do file sharing you will need a few different protocols for it to all work together. 
 

This kind of exercise is a good way to gain an appreciation for modern hardware, software, and documentation. 

[Flojomojo]

This would be a good start https://archive.org/details/networkingessent0000titt_k2s7

[mr_me]

Tcp/ip works fine with the DOS client, it does use a lot more ram, and more settings than other protocols.  Netbeui or ipx is easier.  The ram isn't necessarily an issue, you can set it up to only load networking when you need to use it.  Ram might be more an issue with the xt machines.

[wierd_w]

Here's what I would suggest, honestly.

 

3 PhoneNet interfaces and 3 lengths of old telephone cord.

An Asante bridge

2 lengths of "Thinnet' 10base-2 cable

3 T connectors for 10base-2

2 terminators for 10base-2

1 hybrid switch with 10base-2 BNC connector and RJ45 ethernet connectors

2 Etherlink III isa cards

2 EtherExpress 8/16 isa cards

1 microchannel ethernet card (with ADF diskette!!)

PCI 10/100 cards for the PCI equipped systems lacking baked on ethernet

Lot of cat 5E cables

A gigabit switch with sufficient ports

 

 

Topology

 

You will have 2 mac classics on a small PhoneNet deployment, connected to the Asante bridge, like so:

 

(PhoneNet Terminator)--|--(PhoneCord-------------PhoneCord)--|---(PhoneCord---------------PhoneCord)---|---(Phonenet Terminator)

                  MacClassic #1 (via serial port)            MacClassic #2 (Via serial port)                            Assante bridge

 

You will have 2 XT class systems that will be using 10base-2 Thinnet cabling with EtherExpress 8/16s inside, connected to the hybrid hub. Each machine is daisy chained to the previous. A terminator is attached to the ends of the T connectors placed on the BNC connector of each device, with one device's T connector having 2 cables attached-- like so: 

 

(Terminator) ---|--- (Cord---------------Cord)---|---(Cord)-----------------Cord)---|---(Terminator)

                  XT #1                                     XT #2                                    Hybrid Hub

            (Using EtherExpress)         (Using EtherExpress)

 

Given that both of these are DOG SLOW segments, I would put them together, and connect the Assante bridge to the hybrid hub via one of its RJ45 interfaces, then uplink that to a 10/100/1000 switch.

This would isolate this slow speed segment and prevent it from being a collision domain with the much faster 10/100/1000 network segment that will have everything else on it, with RJ45 ethernet.

 

 

So, you would have:

 

(Mac segment----------Mac Segment)                                                  (XT Thinnet Segment--------------XT Thinnet segment)

                                                     |---------------------|----------Hybrid Hub--------------|

                                           Assante Bridge            |                         

                                                                          10/100/1000 switch ----------------------------------------------->[Home Internet Router]

                             |------|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|------|-----|------|-----|-----|                                                        |

                                All your vintage RJ45 10/100 equipped machines here                                                 Modern Computers (wireless, etc)

 

 

On one of the PII era machines, I would install windows 2000 server, and set up Services For Macintosh, create a hybrid fileshare using that machine, and use it to service the fileserver requirements of the vintage network.

Modern machines will be able to make use of the share, with some caveats. (Microsoft depreciated SMB 1.0 connections, which is what you will need, in windows 10. You can turn it back on, but it's a security risk)

 

For safety reasons, I would put the vintage network in its own IP Subnet, DIFFERENT from the default subnet your home router normally provides.

I would manually assign IP addresses to the devices in the vintage network subnet.

 

 

 

 

 

[wierd_w]

If at all possible, for your DOS using systems, I would stick with 3com or Realtek cards, as they have EXCELLENT DOS Support.

Generic NE2000 cards will be a crapshoot on getting the packet drivers set up.

 

The DOS devices will need the Microsoft Client for DOS diskette set in addition to those packet/ndis drivers.

(the alternative is to use the Novell ODI bindery stack for DOS. However, unless you want to throw in a netware server, I would stick with the Microsoft client, as it can work with / talk to modern systems too.)

 

Make sure the XT systems have been fully expanded to 640k. YOU WILL NEED EVERY BIT OF IT.