Would an a/v mod on my 5200 stop color bleeding?

[BIGHMW]

I have been having a (what is now) big-time issue with weighing the pluses and minuses of having my beloved Big Sexy a/v-modded.

 

(I know this kinda reads on whether or not to get my 5200 a boob-job but nevertheless  )

 

It is over an issue involving color-bleeding on a lot of graphics on some of my games on her, I notice it quite a bit, especially on Asteroids and on Missile Command, where is seems like their is a fair bit of it, now I DO NOT want to get rid of her in favor of getting an XEGS simply because of her already being composite a/v ready, or have to settle for the sucky-sucky graphics of games on the 2600 AtGames Flashback 9 despite her being HDMI-ready.

 

I checked both my Insignia TV as well as that now-famous "rose-gold colored box", my RF-to-HDMI converter, and adjusted all the settings on each, but alas, the color bleeding still exists. Now I know I would lose compatibility with my 2600 adapter if I had her a/v-modded but what an Atarian to do???

 

...and where can I ship her to solve this problem, I'm beginning to see why so many others have had their consoles a/v-modded and now I want in too.

 

Thanks!  

[+-^CrossBow^-]

While I have not tested it myself as I do NOT own a VCS adapter, It should still work at least through RF output if a UAV is installed since it doesn't require any components to be removed to install one. So it could, in theory, still be used in that original fashion.

 

Now that said, composite output is still going to have some bleeding to it due to the nature of composite video signals in general. So s-video is the way to go affordably. But that also means you need a way to use the s-video and that might require additional equipment to use it.

 

There is also the possibility of getting RGB output with the use of the Sophia board. But that is on the high end of costs.

 

So unless there are other options I'm not aware of...these are the three main ones:

 

Low-end is just a simple composite output upgrade. Basically the same type of upgrade that you see on many 2600s and some 7800s for sale on ebay. But this will require some components to be removed as I understand it and likely prevent the VCS adapter from being usable at all.

 

Mid-range is to go with a UAV upgrade. This will provide a better composite output image compared to the cheaper kits and also bring an excellent s-video output option. UAV doesn't require any components to be removed so it has the best chance of allowing you to still use the VCS adapter through RF output and play 5200 games on the upgraded video output.

 

High-end is to go with the Sophia. It essentially replaces the video system in the 5200 with a new RGB output setup. This will kill the VCS adapter from working (Unless something has changed) and would provide the best possible output from the console. 

 

I've not used the Sophia myself so I don't know exactly how it looks but I've been told it is fantastic. That said, I've got s-video on my personal 5200 and have installed a lot of UAVs and honestly, I've never seen a need to upgrade beyond that because the s-video output looks really good from the 5200.

 

[BIGHMW]

UPDATE:

 

I switched my 5200 to my home theater and the TV (same model Insignia as in the home one in my arcade setup) and ran it through the VCR's antenna input, a ton of snow but at least no color bleeding. I can make out the graphic details of my ship in Asteroids and the ship and the game score are in green, while the title screen and copyright notice are in red and I can make out every pixel without the bleeding. Now knowing I have a composite-to-HDMI converter hooked up to the VCR's output, would an a/v mod (on the 5200 not the VCR) get rid of all that snow???

 

....and yes I do know for a fact that I would lose the ability to use the VCS adapter if I indeed have the mod done.

 

....or do I just say " 'F' it!" and just use it as it is so I can use the VCS adapter as there are just too many good games on my Harmony Encore to pass up on???

[BIGHMW]

UPDATE 2:

 

Just swapped between the antenna input on my VCR and also my RF-to-HDMI converter, and compared them both, the latter quelled down the snow but still had color bleeding even on this setup. The VCR output also experienced some color-bleeding not so much but it also had significant snow on the picture, I'll post pics later today showing you both back-to-back

[+-^CrossBow^-]

You didn't read what I typed did you?

 

I stated that at least with a UAV the VCS adapter should still work but only through the RF output and not through the enhanced output. No video upgrade that I'm aware of has the ability to pass the composite signal coming from the VCS adapter and clean it up so to speak for use through another AV upgrade board.

 

But to answer that last question...yes an AV upgrade will get rid of the snow since that is being caused by outside interference affecting the RF output. It would also simplify the hook ups since you would have direct composite or s-video or whatever you went with... to connect directly to a compatible display/TV.

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

I'm hesitant to mention this, but figure I'll take my big dumb chances anyway:

 

Once The Brewing Academy is open for business again, I'm going to be putting in an order for a few UAVs.  One of those UAVs is slated for the 5200, and, as part of that installation, I'm going to do some experimenting with how best to pull composite video from the cartridge port and redirect it to the same output jack used by the UAV.  In theory, this would allow for a VCS adaptor be used in a UAV-upgraded 5200 without the need to resort to RF for 2600 games.

 

This is likely to involve building a smaller circuit to handle the composite input from the cartridge port, mainly to avoid contention with the UAV's composite output since they'd be sharing an output jack.

 

All of this is unproven, something I'm planning on banging on in my (very limited) spare time, and not the sort of thing I usually do.  There are no completion dates or even milestones or goals.  If / when something happens that looks promising, I'll post about it.

[rayik]

On 8/1/2022 at 2:45 PM, -^CrossBow^- said:

 

high-end is to go with the Sophia. It essentially replaces the video system in the 5200 with a new RGB output setup. This will kill the VCS adapter from working (Unless something has changed) and would provide the best possible output from the console. 

 

I've not used the Sophia myself so I don't know exactly how it looks but I've been told it is fantastic. That said, I've got s-video on my personal 5200 and have installed a lot of UAVs and honestly, I've never seen a need to upgrade beyond that because the s-video output looks really good from the 5200.

 

 

I have a Sophia installed and the picture is perfect.

 

However it is a very costly solution  in addition to the cost of the Sophia board and installation, you also need an RGB upscaler which can easily run $300+.

 

Most cost effective solution is UAV.

[juansolo]

On 8/1/2022 at 8:45 PM, -^CrossBow^- said:

I've not used the Sophia myself so I don't know exactly how it looks but I've been told it is fantastic. That said, I've got s-video on my personal 5200 and have installed a lot of UAVs and honestly, I've never seen a need to upgrade beyond that because the s-video output looks really good from the 5200.

It's staggeringly good and a jump up from S. Though you're right in that depending how much a Sophia costs to get there depends on whether it's worth the effort. Here a UAV is about £35-40, and the Sophia I think was about £55. For the difference I just went straight there as it's what I run in my 8-bit also.

 

The newer Sophia I think can output DVI, which you could put straight into HDMI with a cheap adapter. I'm not sure if it's not another piece of hardware that's a victim of the parts shortage though...

Edited August 3, 2022 by juansolo

[john_q_atari]

37 minutes ago, juansolo said:

It's staggeringly good and a jump up from S. Though you're right in that depending how much a Sophia costs to get there depends on whether it's worth the effort. Here a UAV is about £35-40, and the Sophia I think was about £55. For the difference I just went straight there as it's what I run in my 8-bit also.

 

The newer Sophia I think can output DVI, which you could put straight into HDMI with a cheap adapter. I'm not sure if it's not another piece of hardware that's a victim of the parts shortage though...

Yup I have a Sophia that outputs DVI in one of my 5200s. I plug it straight into a computer monitor. And unfortunately yes, the Sophia is a victim of the parts shortage. Hopefully one day it will again become available.

 

[christo930]

If you have bad color bleed, it's not working correctly. You should definitely clean the channel select switch.  It causes a lot of problems on the 2600.  How about your TV?  Do you hook other consoles to it? If so, how do they look?

 

Every game console I have ever used put out perfectly acceptable RF.  The alleged "need" for AV modding is vastly overstated, especially on such old low resolution consoles.  .  If it has very obvious flaws, it ain't because you don't have an AV mod installed, it's because something isn't working as designed.  The 5200 does not put out bleeding colors when it working as designed.

[Fragman]

I've got 54 year old eyes. So unless an AV mod makes THEM better, not a huge gain to me to do one. I run my 2600's, 400, 600XL and 5200 through a VCR I got at a thrift store so they will work on composite TV's too. The 800. 800XL, and Commodores are good for composite already. That said, if I did come across a 2600 or 5200 with a bad RF, I would probably just do the basic 'two resistor and transistor' mod rather than try to fix the RF.  Did that for one 2600 and it did indeed improve it quite a bit. But that one was pretty bad through RF. 

 

But, that's just me. Different people want different things. Though I will admit. part of me wants to do the UAV mod 'just because'. I do like to tinker. But I would want a 'spare' 5200 to do that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

17 minutes ago, Fragman said:

I've got 54 year old eyes. So unless an AV mod makes THEM better, not a huge gain to me to do one. I run my 2600's, 400, 600XL and 5200 through a VCR I got at a thrift store so they will work on composite TV's too. The 800. 800XL, and Commodores are good for composite already. That said, if I did come across a 2600 or 5200 with a bad RF, I would probably just do the basic 'two resistor and transistor' mod rather than try to fix the RF.  Did that for one 2600 and it did indeed improve it quite a bit. But that one was pretty bad through RF. 

 

But, that's just me. Different people want different things. Though I will admit. part of me wants to do the UAV mod 'just because'. I do like to tinker. But I would want a 'spare' 5200 to do that. 

You do know that with a UAV, you can install it..not have to remove anything from the system and still use the RF output if you really want? You could even do what I did for a few years. I've a test bed 7800 that had a UAV installed but I never ran any wiring for the AV outputs. Instead I just used it to test things here and there. Recently it did get put into a replacement case shell and AV outputs finally wired up to the UAV in it, but yeah...

 

[Fragman]

40 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

You do know that with a UAV, you can install it..not have to remove anything from the system and still use the RF output if you really want? You could even do what I did for a few years. I've a test bed 7800 that had a UAV installed but I never ran any wiring for the AV outputs. Instead I just used it to test things here and there. Recently it did get put into a replacement case shell and AV outputs finally wired up to the UAV in it, but yeah...

 

Actually, I did not. I've literally had the 5200 for a week so still green when it comes to that model. 

It's not that I HAVE to have the RF, just that I wasn't inclined to upgrade one that was working. BUT, as I said, I do like to tinker with stuff, so might just give one a shot. 

I've also no real interest in using a 2600 adapter as I have several 2600's. I kinda like having 'one of each' so was working towards that. No real reason as they all play the same!

Edited October 12, 2022 by Fragman