Do you think it was intentional on atari's part to make the cart slot tough to fit third party carts?

[sirlynxalot]

Imagic games just don't fit in the slot and some other third party carts don't either.  Do you think it was a deliberate design decision or just happenstance things worked out that way?

[Jaden (JRH)]

Probably just an oversight. Imagic games fit for me in my 7800 system. If you're having issues trying to plug in certain games, consider looking into this.

 

[Asaki]

Probably not; the heavy sixer has similar issues.

[John Stamos Mullet]

More like it was deliberate on the part of 3rd party vendors to spend as little time and effort as possible checking cart fit on the variety of 2600 compatible consoles.

[+slx]

Probably the 3rd party cart designers failed to copy the dimensions of original Atari carts exactly enough. 

[+Trebor]

Depending on the model, results may vary, overall, earlier models may have no issues with any third-party cartridge, including TigerVision, Imagic, and Activision.

 

The more common, later model, 7800 systems, tend to have a cartridge guide that is a bit tighter than earlier models.  The beveled corners compound the problem.

 

This post provides some excellent pics (provided in the spoiler below) and a modification to address the issue for all 7800 cartridge guides:

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To modify it, disassemble the console and remove the shielding from the board. The screws which connect the plastic guide are accessible from the bottom of the board. Once removed, simply cut out the corners of the guide and reinstall it.

 

Since the cart guide is quite recessed in the 7800 case, the mod is hardly visible once you have reassembled the console.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

The tigervision carts with stationary dust door pegs on them still won't fit nor the supercharger. This is because those same screws listed above that hold the cart sleeve in place are actually in the same spot where the 2600 dust pegs normally come through. As a result the plastic on the bottom of the sleeve for the screws to go into, goes up into the sleeve too much and prevents those carts from ever seating fully. 

 

Also, having seen a lot of 7800s, the cart sleeve fitment issue is actually 3 separate things:

 

1st - I already mentioned and is an issue for all 7800s regardless of the year they were made or the sleeve was molded. That being the plastic the screws go into on the bottom.

2nd - yes some 3rd party carts won't fit due to the strict tolerance on the corners. This is made worse by the fact that as you move the cartridge further down into the sleeve, those corners and the sides begin to taper inwards towards the center of the cart sleeve. This is much worse on some molds than others and is the actual reason the carts won't seat down in most cases.

3rd - This one doesn't happen as often but I have seen it no less than about a half dozen times now. In addition to the above two, I've also seen where the entire center section of the plastic sleeve is actually a little wider and it tapers outwards towards the bottom. As a result the carts won't seat because now the center section itself is pressing against the inside portion of the cartridge and causing them to slip upwards out of the slot. 

 

I've done several methods of modifying the sleeve over the years and my current method is the best I've found but more time consuming to do. In the end though, it doesn't look like the cart sleeve has been modified really and does seem to work.

 

For the carts with static dust pegs that don't retract into the cartridge or the super chargers, if your sleeve holds on tight enough with just the snap pegs on the bottom, then you could remove the plastic the bottom screws mounted into and that will then allow enough clearance for those carts to fit. But it still isn't completely ideal since the sleeve will have some slop to it at that point.

 

[sirlynxalot]

8 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

More like it was deliberate on the part of 3rd party vendors to spend as little time and effort as possible checking cart fit on the variety of 2600 compatible consoles.

To be fair the overwhelming majority of these games had come out before the 7800 was released to the public.  Sure would stink to pay 50 bucks for a game and then not have it fit in your system though.

[John Stamos Mullet]

3 hours ago, sirlynxalot said:

To be fair the overwhelming majority of these games had come out before the 7800 was released to the public.  Sure would stink to pay 50 bucks for a game and then not have it fit in your system though.

They had the same cart fit issues on the heavy sizer too though, which was the first 2600 console ever. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

 

[+Trebor]

4 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

The tigervision carts with stationary dust door pegs on them still won't fit nor the supercharger.

 

Are you sure about the Supercharger? 

Quote

There are one or two 7800's for sale around here. One is in the back room at Game X Change in Yukon (or it was) and I personally tested it. It is just the bare console with no power supply, controllers, or switch box. I tried all the carts listed in the FAQ with compatibility problems excpet the 2600 Dark Chambers. Everything I tried in it worked perfect including the Supercharger. It's not priced, and I'm not sure if it's still for sale.

Here too:

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My Pitfall II works fine on the three 7800s I've tried it on - the two I have (and a friends). All 3 also work fine with the supercharger and the CC2.

Third time's a charm...

Quote

My 7800 can use Supercharger without a problem. Some 7800 do have problem with it.

[sirlynxalot]

Ooh! Stirring up the drama. Almost as good as the Jaguar forum ?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

The dust door pegs on my supercharger stick out too much and prevent the SC from seating fully in my 7800. So at least with my SC... it won't physically fit in any 7800s I've had because of this. It came this way out of the box and they don't retract so yeah... doesn't fit.

 

As for the Tigervision carts I didn't say all of them. Only some of them. Those with static pegs that don't retract will also not seat all the way down into the 7800. I know my Miner 2049 cart was this way and I believe my King Kong cart is also this way. Prior to modifying my cart sleeve, I was having to use my high score cart as a passthrough for those to fit and work. On my miner cart I actually cut the pegs on the ends about a half cm so that it would fit back in the day. My Jawbreaker cart will fit as it has retractable dust pegs on it.

 

I've seen some people actually take their tigervision carts apart and reverse the pegs to make them fit. But mine don't seem to want to separate without cracking the shells. So... I've not tried this to any degree.

 

[+Trebor]

15 minutes ago, sirlynxalot said:

Ooh! Stirring up the drama. Almost as good as the Jaguar forum ?

No drama.

 

It has been clarified that at least one Supercharger mold does not fit any 7800 systems it has been tried on, while others have stated their Supercharge fit fine, and in those cases a mod was not even preformed to the system. 

 

Odds are the Supercharger scenario will be similar to the TigerVision cart scenario, where specific variations of the casing does not work regardless of the aforementioned mod.

[sirlynxalot]

I'm just going to post a second question in this thread because it doesnt really deserve it's own thread.  If you have a console with scratches on the plastic and the metal part, is there anything that might help lessen the perception of the scratches or is it just something I need to live with.  My childhood 7800 that I sold in 2013 for 30 bucks was in perfect cosmetic condition, while most of the used stock I see these days looks decidedly crummy on the scratch and ding front.

[+Trebor]

For the metal strip, see this thread:

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Scotch-Brite green scour pad to give the surface a soft haze and break down the scratches, then finished with grade 0000 steel wool, the finest steel wool you can get. I masked the plastic and either half of the metal strip with 3M masking tape to preserve the color strip. You only buff in one direction and replace the steel wool often. For crevices around the lettering I used a small brass bristle brush then buffed with torn tufts of steel wool.

 

Before and after pics in the spoiler...

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sirlynxalot]

That's a very impressive result!  I also heard about someone reducing the scratches on a sega Genesis by rubbing wd40 on it, but since that's not a thing that would physically fill in or smooth the scratches, maybe it just increases the shine on the black plastic so the scratches aren't as noticeable. 

[351coug]

3rd party vendors were getting ready for a product that got shelved for a while. They had investments in cart molds and were not about to spend more money on replacing them until enough sales occurred. 

[nadir]

On 8/6/2022 at 1:40 PM, -^CrossBow^- said:

The dust door pegs on my supercharger stick out too much and prevent the SC from seating fully in my 7800. So at least with my SC... it won't physically fit in any 7800s I've had because of this. It came this way out of the box and they don't retract so yeah... doesn't fit.

 

As for the Tigervision carts I didn't say all of them. Only some of them. Those with static pegs that don't retract will also not seat all the way down into the 7800. I know my Miner 2049 cart was this way and I believe my King Kong cart is also this way. Prior to modifying my cart sleeve, I was having to use my high score cart as a passthrough for those to fit and work. On my miner cart I actually cut the pegs on the ends about a half cm so that it would fit back in the day. My Jawbreaker cart will fit as it has retractable dust pegs on it.

 

I've seen some people actually take their tigervision carts apart and reverse the pegs to make them fit. But mine don't seem to want to separate without cracking the shells. So... I've not tried this to any degree.

 

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones.  SuperCharger fits no issue.  My Tigervision carts didn't though.  Since I play them and am not a "collector" as such, I just used some small snips and I was able to clip off enough of the pegs for them to fit without having to crack the case.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, nadir said:

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones.  SuperCharger fits no issue.  My Tigervision carts didn't though.  Since I play them and am not a "collector" as such, I just used some small snips and I was able to clip off enough of the pegs for them to fit without having to crack the case.

Yeah... I'm getting that it seems most are able to have their SCs fit in their 7800s without issue. But again, mine wouldn't. It does now that I've removed the plastic on the inside of the sleeve for the sleeve screws. 

[+Mitch]

5 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Yeah... I'm getting that it seems most are able to have their SCs fit in their 7800s without issue. But again, mine wouldn't. It does now that I've removed the plastic on the inside of the sleeve for the sleeve screws. 

I wonder if it is related to the change from Arcadia to Starpath. I have no idea why that would require a mold change.

 

Mitch

[+-^CrossBow^-]

22 minutes ago, Mitch said:

I wonder if it is related to the change from Arcadia to Starpath. I have no idea why that would require a mold change.

 

Mitch

I believe mine is an Arcadia one and doesn't have the Starpath name on it but it has been well over a year since I messed with it last. I think I used it to check a new SC tape I had found at the time.

 

[alex_79]

36 minutes ago, Mitch said:

I wonder if it is related to the change from Arcadia to Starpath. I have no idea why that would require a mold change.

The pegs to open the dust door are actually part of the PCB in a Supercharger, not of the plastic shell (see the pics here). So maybe there are board variations, with different pegs.

[Jinks]

I think it was intentional 3rd party carts were made to not fit the Atari. 

 

By the logic of the people of this world in 2022 that is true. 

 

 

[Ecernosoft]

On 8/5/2022 at 8:00 PM, sirlynxalot said:

Imagic games just don't fit in the slot and some other third party carts don't either.  Do you think it was a deliberate design decision or just happenstance things worked out that way?

You're not alone. Imagic games don't play ball with my system either. Makes them hard to boot. I have a composite modded 2600 so I usually play my games on that.