Atari 7800 versus Atari lynx?

[Ecernosoft]

Hello!

So I was thinking about getting an atari Lynx later this year so I could play my projects outside of my room. (My Flat screen TV is the only TV that can really do a good RF signal capture, otherwise I'd need to go to lansing to visit Anthony who also has a compatible TV, or Rhode island to visit my grandparents who have a CRT)

But you say: "Why not get a gameboy? it has a 30-50 hour battery life! And the Game gear is a little more powerful!" 3 reasons:

1. Atari over the others.

2. Lynx crushes both options

3. 6502

 

But when I reviewed the specs, I noticed a lot of "battling between the two".

Here are the wins for each:

Resolution: 7800

Color: 7800

Sound (Stock) Lynx

Sound (Enhanced) Still lynx, it can play samples (I think)

Sprite size: 7800

Sprite capability: Lynx

Max colors on screen: 7800

Max colors in total: Lynx

 

And the battle goes on and on...

I was wondering, What system would really win? The 7800, or the Lynx?

I know this is like the NES versus gameboy stuff, but it's also not because besides color and resolution and Sound, (Becase NES has PCM and DM) the gameboy wins. It's faster, has more sprites per line, and can do wavetable audio on it's wave channel.

But the lynx and 7800 are more head and head. Which is better?

[Ecernosoft]

I also don't want to start a "Lynx versus 7800" battle in terms of the fans of each. I want this to be just the hardware. Not the games, not any of that. Just the hardware.

[+SmittyB]

I don't know much about the Lynx and it's not easy to compare them due to different design methodologies (with the Lynx having more in common with the Amiga), but as far as I know the Lynx is the more capable machine by far.

[+Atari_Warlord]

I have and love both of them.  From a straight hardware standpoint I would imagine the Lynx would be slightly more powerful as it came out much later.  I bought and played the Lynx when I was in college and it was much easier to deal with in a dorm environment. 

[Ecernosoft]

Yes, I think I’ll get a lynx if it isn’t too expensive so I can play my games on the go!

once I get one I’ll let you know and also probably make ICT on the lynx!

[+karri]

The sprite handling in the Lynx is far superior. You can scale, skew and flip the sprites by hardware. Also there is plenty of CPU time available. You also have dual buffering that works with interrupts.

[Ecernosoft]

4 hours ago, karri said:

The sprite handling in the Lynx is far superior. You can scale, skew and flip the sprites by hardware. Also there is plenty of CPU time available. You also have dual buffering that works with interrupts.

Ok I get it!! Lynx is superior in all but 4 ways:

1. Expandability (You were going to be able to add a FREAKING LASERDISK!!!)

2. You can basically add the lynx sound to your cartridge if you need it.

3. Fast mapping (Lynx needed to load things in and out of the RAM to do it)

4. Resolution and colors on screen (And colors period, using artifacts you can get a master pallete of ~32 thousand colors!)

[Ecernosoft]

Besides those 4, lynx really does crush the 7800, especially when it comes to sprite scaling and rotation.

[+karri]

1 hour ago, Ecernosoft said:

and rotation

Nope - no rotation of sprites. But you can flip the sprites along the axis.

[Ecernosoft]

Can’t you scale them?

[Ecernosoft]

I saw sprite scaling in scrapyard dog.

[+karri]

I did mention that you can scale sprites a few posts ago. The way to draw sprites on the Lynx is to create a linked list of all sprites you want on the screen and give the address of the first sprite to Suzy. You can then modify the attributes and change bitmaps to move and animate the sprites.

[Ecernosoft]

Well duh! Same on 7800!

[zzip]

From the games I've played on both,  the Lynx feels like the easy winner.   The lower resolution doesn't matter on the small screen.

[Ecernosoft]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

From the games I've played on both,  the Lynx feels like the easy winner.   The lower resolution doesn't matter on the small screen.

Ok, I think your right; The lynx is superior. BUT- I'll probably still be team 7800 just because of Nostalgia. And because I can program it!

[sirlynxalot]

The lynx has some pretty impressive games. The scaling it can do is used to excellent effect in titles like road blasters and stun runner.  There are many games on lynx where it seems like the 7800 doesn't really have anything comparable to it.  Itd be great if the 7800 was like a console version of the lynx but it doesn't seem to be. Doesn't even really share design DNA since lynx was developed years after the 7800 by non atari personnel and then sold to atari.

Edited September 6, 2022 by sirlynxalot

[Ecernosoft]

On 9/5/2022 at 8:43 PM, sirlynxalot said:

The lynx has some pretty impressive games. The scaling it can do is used to excellent effect in titles like road blasters and stun runner.  There are many games on lynx where it seems like the 7800 doesn't really have anything comparable to it.  Itd be great if the 7800 was like a console version of the lynx but it doesn't seem to be. Doesn't even really share design DNA since lynx was developed years after the 7800 by non atari personnel and then sold to atari.

No denying that!

The 7800 does too, though.

[Astal4]

On 8/25/2022 at 5:15 PM, Ecernosoft said:

3. 6502

Still telling you the Z80 is a better CPU. The 6502 was coming in up to 2MHz (8502) when the Z80 was coming in 8MHz variants. The fact that a Z80 takes more cycles for most instructions is not important when the clock difference is accounted for and the 6502's complete lack of 16 bit internal registers.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Astal4

[Ecernosoft]

19 hours ago, Astal4 said:

Still telling you the Z80 is a better CPU. The 6502 was coming in up to 2MHz (8502) 

Except it is as fast as a 6502 of 1/2 the clock speed.

And yeah, that's true, but the lynx runs at 3.58 mhz. And it used the 65C02.

 

Still, no denying the lynx is better, and this argument can end now.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Ecernosoft

[Astal4]

If you actually look and study the Z80 architecture it is a better design than the 65(C)02. The 65(C)02 is missing some big features. Just trust me on this. The 6502 was an excellent piece of cost cutting, but was still at the end of the day a low cost chip.

 

Edit: There's also features for designing circuits that the Z80 had which were nice like onboard DRAM refresh, and it was an early single supply chip, the 8080 it's compatible with requires I want to say +12, -5, and +5.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Astal4
DRAM!

[+Defender_2600]

5 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

Still, no denying the lynx is better, and this argument can end now.

 

I disagree and I disagree.

 

Seriously, the Lynx has a really low resolution compared to the 7800 and this has a significant impact on the gameplay, this results in a fairly narrow playing field with large sprites or, alternatively, it is necessary to use small sprites with very low resolution and elementary detail (as happens in Ms. Pac-Man).

Edited October 15, 2022 by Defender_2600

[Astal4]

40 minutes ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

I disagree and I disagree.

 

Seriously, the Lynx has a really low resolution compared to the 7800 and this has a significant impact on the gameplay, this results in a fairly narrow playing field with large sprites or, alternatively, it is necessary to use small sprites with very low resolution and elementary detail (as happens in Ms. Pac-Man).

The custom chipset in the Lynx, amped up for running on mains power, could've made a really cool console to compete with the PC Engine though... You did give me an interesting thought with that.

 

The Lynx was a small screen so the lower resolution wasn't a huge deal, but it's still not the greatest. The best handhelds of that gen are the Game Gear and the PC Engine GT.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Astal4

[+Defender_2600]

23 minutes ago, Astal4 said:

The custom chipset in the Lynx, amped up for running on mains power, could've made a really cool console to compete with the PC Engine though... You did give me an interesting thought with that.

 

The Lynx was a small screen so the lower resolution wasn't a huge deal, but it's still not the greatest. The best handhelds of that gen are the Game Gear and the PC Engine GT.

 

In truth, it doesn't make much sense to compare a portable system to a home system but, as we are doing this exercise, it must be remembered that low resolution has always been a weak point of portable systems and the Lynx has even lower vertical resolution than to its competitors. On the other hand just think that even a powerful GBA doesn't have enough vertical resolution to make a better Donkey Kong than the Nes or 7800, which is quite embarrassing.

[Astal4]

1 hour ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

In truth, it doesn't make much sense to compare a portable system to a home system but, as we are doing this exercise, it must be remembered that low resolution has always been a weak point of portable systems and the Lynx has even lower vertical resolution than to its competitors. On the other hand just think that even a powerful GBA doesn't have enough vertical resolution to make a better Donkey Kong than the Nes or 7800, which is quite embarrassing.

Even the Switch is only 720p, which for 2017 when it released is quite low. Fair point. The PSP is the only portable console to come close to the home one that I can think of.

[roots.genoa]

18 minutes ago, Astal4 said:

Even the Switch is only 720p, which for 2017 when it released is quite low.

What about Steamdeck's 800p in 2022, then?