Bently bear questions

[Ecernosoft]

Hello!

So I have a TON of questions about Bently bear because I want my games to look as good as it. It looks amazing and totally blows the NES out of the water, especially on the clould sections...

 

So, I have a bunch of questions.

1. How was the scrolling background done? 160A with different palletes for different rows, Direct mode, 160B (I'm pretty sure it's not 160B)

2. How was the clould scrolling done?

3. Do the player sprites use 160B or 160A? Bently bear uses quite the colors.

4. Was a DLI used to change colors mid frame?

5. What sort of expansions does it use?

 

Thanks!

[Trebor]

Commented and downloadable source code (in ASM) for Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest along with several other games was made available by the developer, PacManPlus, in this thread.

[Ecernosoft]

Oh.... It's great!

 

Just wished it was a single file. I use DASM and that makes single-file stuff. Multi-file isn't easy for me- but we are talking about ASM after all.

[RevEng]

34 minutes ago, Ecernosoft said:

Just wished it was a single file. I use DASM and that makes single-file stuff. Multi-file isn't easy for me- but we are talking about ASM after all.

The Bentley Bear source was created for DASM, so you're set. DASM can work with multiple files too, you just use the "include" directive in your main assembly file to bring in any other files.

[Ecernosoft]

21 hours ago, RevEng said:

The Bentley Bear source was created for DASM, so you're set. DASM can work with multiple files too, you just use the "include" directive in your main assembly file to bring in any other files.

LOL I forgot!!! 🤣

Anyway.... I still have one small issue.

I prominently use 8bitworkshop to write my games. It's great and all but certain platforms like the 7800 are lacking.

Specifically the fact you can't add any expansions and the TIA emulation is pitched down some.

I'll look at the code, but I don't think I'll be able to run it (Untill I get VSC and the Atari dev studio to actually work!)

[Ecernosoft]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:07 PM, RevEng said:

The Bentley Bear source was created for DASM, so you're set. DASM can work with multiple files too, you just use the "include" directive in your main assembly file to bring in any other files.

Hey, @RevEng, could you just give me the binary? It would be useful for debugging purposes, specifically for running on the real 7800 (It's how I figure out how programmers usually do stuff on the 7800 or how it was "Supposed" to look)

 

Before you go, "Well buy a real cart!" I've wanted too. For a year it hasn't been available though and much like Rikki & Vikki, I don't think I'll ever get one.

As a result, I'd like the Binary instead. (If possible, could you convert for pokey@800 since Concerto firmware 0.96 supports that for 144K?)

Also, it's already available on JS7800 for free.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Ecernosoft

[Ecernosoft]

I'd love to buy a real cartridge, but that's not really an option.

[+Karl G]

30 minutes ago, Ecernosoft said:

Hey, @RevEng, could you just give me the binary? It would be useful for debugging purposes, specifically for running on the real 7800 (It's how I figure out how programmers usually do stuff on the 7800 or how it was "Supposed" to look)

The game is from @PacManPlus, not RevEng. May I gently suggest that it would be worth your time as a 7800 developer to setup DASM on your system so that you can assemble from the command line? Once you have DASM in your path, you can just run the .bat file that Bob provided to assemble the game yourself.

 

https://dasm-assembler.github.io/

 

Edit: I am not trying to be unhelpful, but I don't know if Bob has publicly released the ROM for this title or not. Either way, setting up DASM on your system is not likely to be a waste of your time.

 

[Ecernosoft]

51 minutes ago, Karl G said:

The game is from @PacManPlus, not RevEng. May I gently suggest that it would be worth your time as a 7800 developer to setup DASM on your system so that you can assemble from the command line? Once you have DASM in your path, you can just run the .bat file that Bob provided to assemble the game yourself.

 

https://dasm-assembler.github.io/

 

Edit: I am not trying to be unhelpful, but I don't know if Bob has publicly released the ROM for this title or not. Either way, setting up DASM on your system is not likely to be a waste of your time.

 

Ok. Could you help please? I really only have one issue... ( @Karl G)

 

That is when I assemble the file, I don't get the .bin file. I'm using Visual studio code 

[+Karl G]

25 minutes ago, Ecernosoft said:

Ok. Could you help please? I really only have one issue... ( @Karl G)

 

That is when I assemble the file, I don't get the .bin file. I'm using Visual studio code 

What output do you get in the terminal when you attempt to assemble?

[Ecernosoft]

11 hours ago, Karl G said:

What output do you get in the terminal when you attempt to assemble?

Terminal?

[Ecernosoft]

Oh... the terminal!

 

Edit: When I compile it, the terminal says C:\Users.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Ecernosoft

[+splendidnut]

I think there's a bug in the newer versions of AtariDevStudio... I can't compile/assemble DASM projects either.

 

UPDATE:

Nevermind...I got it working.  You have to select the main source file before you can compile/assemble anything when you first open the editor.

[+Karl G]

@Ecernosoft - If you are trying to use Atari Dev Studio to compile this project, you would probably need to use a makefile to mimic what the batch file is doing. It would be easier to install DASM and have it in your PATH, and just use the provided batch file. You might not even need to do that much since the ZIP has a Windows DASM binary in the source directory.

 

Having said that, though, I tried switching to my Windows VM and tried assembling from the supplied batch file myself without success. It seems like the BentleyBearLevels.ASM file has some missing dependencies. 

 

Edit: FYI, it looks like he did release the ROM: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/245418-bentley-bears-crystal-quest-complete-game/page/6/#comment-3396182

 

 

[Ecernosoft]

8 hours ago, splendidnut said:

I think there's a bug in the newer versions of AtariDevStudio... I can't compile/assemble DASM projects either.

 

UPDATE:

Nevermind...I got it working.  You have to select the main source file before you can compile/assemble anything when you first open the editor.

What do you mean? I've never used CLI before. (By the way, it's because I use 8bitworkshop)

[+splendidnut]

I'm not sure what you're asking about.

 

VS Code + Atari Dev Studio doesn't require using the Command Prompt/Terminal.  The editor's Compile / Run buttons are hooked up to run bBasic / 7800basic / DASM (and an emulator if run is selected) depending on the currently selected file in the editor.

 

If you specifically want to use Command Prompt (Windows), the basic syntax for running DASM is:

 

dasm NameOfGame.asm -f3 -v2 -oNameOfGame.bin

 

-o <--- filename for the binary output

-f3  <-- specifies to output raw binary file (mandatory)

-v2  <-- how verbose you want DASM to be (optional)

 

DASM Manual:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dasm-assembler/dasm/master/docs/dasm.pdf

 

[Ecernosoft]

2 hours ago, splendidnut said:

I'm not sure what you're asking about.

 

VS Code + Atari Dev Studio doesn't require using the Command Prompt/Terminal.  The editor's Compile / Run buttons are hooked up to run bBasic / 7800basic / DASM (and an emulator if run is selected) depending on the currently selected file in the editor.

 

If you specifically want to use Command Prompt (Windows), the basic syntax for running DASM is:

 

dasm NameOfGame.asm -f3 -v2 -oNameOfGame.bin

 

-o <--- filename for the binary output

-f3  <-- specifies to output raw binary file (mandatory)

-v2  <-- how verbose you want DASM to be (optional)

 

DASM Manual:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dasm-assembler/dasm/master/docs/dasm.pdf

 

Oh.... I'll try that.

[Ecernosoft]

2 hours ago, splendidnut said:

I'm not sure what you're asking about.

 

VS Code + Atari Dev Studio doesn't require using the Command Prompt/Terminal.  The editor's Compile / Run buttons are hooked up to run bBasic / 7800basic / DASM (and an emulator if run is selected) depending on the currently selected file in the editor.

 

If you specifically want to use Command Prompt (Windows), the basic syntax for running DASM is:

 

dasm NameOfGame.asm -f3 -v2 -oNameOfGame.bin

 

-o <--- filename for the binary output

-f3  <-- specifies to output raw binary file (mandatory)

-v2  <-- how verbose you want DASM to be (optional)

 

DASM Manual:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dasm-assembler/dasm/master/docs/dasm.pdf

 

Welp, it tells me in the terminal when I type that in that "dasm isn't a recgonized command, program, etc" when I type it into the terminal. I guess I'll just download DASM instead.

[alex_79]

12 hours ago, Ecernosoft said:

it tells me in the terminal when I type that in that "dasm isn't a recgonized command, program, etc"

The dasm executable must either be in the current directory, or the directory where it's located must be in the "path" environment variable, or you must specify the absolute path for it each time.

If you never used the command line, you should first learn the very basics of it (listing and changing directories, copying, renaming, deleting and moving files). You'll find plenty of guides and tutorials for that.

[Ecernosoft]

9 hours ago, alex_79 said:

The dasm executable must either be in the current directory, or the directory where it's located must be in the "path" environment variable, or you must specify the absolute path for it each time.

If you never used the command line, you should first learn the very basics of it (listing and changing directories, copying, renaming, deleting and moving files). You'll find plenty of guides and tutorials for that.

I'm using Atari Dev Studio and DASM is integrated inside it. Not sure how I can find the file if I've never downloaded it. I'm going to take a break from this, but if Bob or someone would hand me the ROM for bently bear that would be great!

 

Of course, I wouldn't share it, mention I had it (Outside of here) or do anything he wouldn't want me to do w/ it.

@PacManPlus, I wanted to mention this to you that I really like your games. I have frenzy and I've seen your other ports (Pac man, Baby pac, pac collection, etc) and they are AMAZING. Unfortunately, Bently bear hasn't been available, and I'm only asking for the ROM. I don't want to be a pirate or anything, but I've been very patient waiting for it to become available.... and have waited over a year with no changes.

 

The only reason I'm even considering asking is:

 

1. The homebrew community is small, and the collector community is only a little bigger.

2. I'm practically the only teenager who even knows what Atari is (Outside of it's a video game console/video game company) (I'm only 14) and who can code it.

3. Bently bear hasn't been available for over a year.

4. Bently bear is literally playable on JS7800, so honestly, the sad truth is it's probably how most people play the game instead of getting a physical copy. (I don't abuse JS7800 by the way, but sometimes I do use it to play homebrew I don't own)
 

I don't want to be negative or anything, and I'd love a copy. Even for a little extra ($80 maybe?) I'll get a physical copy over just the bin. I'm asking this as a dev, not a gamer.

[PacManPlus]

Hello!

 

Thank you for the kind words regarding Bentley Bear and my ports!

I have answered your other questions in your PM to me.

Unfortunately I can't help with Atari Dev Studio as I've never used it.  

 

The reason for Bentley Bear's non-availability is because it uses a Pokey chip for sound.  Those chips are becoming very scarce, although an alternative replacement for that Pokey chip is being worked on.

As mentioned above, Bentley's ROM is already available in the main thread of the game here: 

 

It will should be available soon.

 

 

[+saxmeister]

There are now multiple options for POKEY replacement, thank goodness. They are mostly close enough and/or are being updated to be even more accurate.

• PokeyMax (although around US$100 per unit)
• PokeyOne (around US$40 per unit)
• Hokey (around US$20 per unit)

If the PokeyMax could come down in price we could have any choice we wanted of sound chip:

 

• Quad Pokey
• Dual SID
• Dual PSG
• Four channel Covox, with Paula style DMA
• GTIA audio digital pass though
• SIO audio mixing
• PBI audio mixing

The Hokey is the best alternative due to its cheaper price.

I've often thought about making an audio pass-through cart that would have the sound chip installed and carts could just plug in and use the functionality. This gets into the High Score cart and Sega 32X realm where items are stacked out of the cartridge slot. An all-purpose sound chip and high score combo would be great - this may already be in the works. But at that point we are almost to the price point of the Atari 7800XM module without the additional RAM and SIO port.

 

I still wish that effort to start fabbing POKEYs again would happen. Much of the technology that was used for that has been declared obsolete and can be purchased relatively cheaply nowadays. But having someone who knows how to do it, can cap a chip and read the schematics, fab, do it within a decent price range, etc. all becomes a bit of a pipe dream.

[Trebor]

1 hour ago, saxmeister said:

• Hokey (around US$20 per unit)

Believe the HOKEY is priced at $10 per unit, unless something has changed since the aforementioned linked post from September of last year; which very well may be the case.