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Rob 'n' Banks development log


Ryan Witmer

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So, for some crazy reason I got the itch to try my hand at a 7800 game and Rob 'n' Banks, my recently completed port of Data East's Lock 'n' Chase to the 5200, seemed like a good candidate.  So here I am following in the footsteps of Beef Drop and bringing another Data East arcade title to the 7800.

 

I just started working on this and learning the details of the 7800, since this is the first time I've ever done anything for the console.  I've got the basics figured out and today I put together an early version of the maze.

 

image.thumb.png.1678f9ff0cab72f280765673d3f9222c.png

 

(That crap on the left is the awesome a7800 performance monitor, and the square is the sprite that will eventually become the player)

 

This is a pretty big step, since I now have both direct and indirect mode working, along with holey DMA.  I'm still fighting with different ways of organizing this stuff, but I'm sure I'll get there eventually.

 

The is a very low-priority project.  My (shamless plug) PC game projects and 5200 work have precedence, but I'll try to poke at this whenever I'm able and I'll post relevant news here.

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10 hours ago, Synthpopalooza said:

Will this use POKEY?  If so, bringing my music and sfx over is very possible and easy to do.   :)

I would love to do that.  I'm a long way out from making that decision though.  I still need to get familiar with all the different options, this is a lot more complicated than the 5200.

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On 10/3/2022 at 8:47 AM, Ryan Witmer said:

I would love to do that.  I'm a long way out from making that decision though.  I still need to get familiar with all the different options, this is a lot more complicated than the 5200.

7800 dev has a bit of a steep curve between starting and getting intended game stuff on the screen. IMO dealing with data structures that need to be perfect in 6502 assembly makes it a tougher playground than the 2600, let alone the 8-bit computer family.

 

That said, you seem to be past the tough bit now. Welcome to the party! :D

 

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16 minutes ago, RevEng said:

7800 dev has a bit of a steep curve between starting and getting intended game stuff on the screen. IMO dealing with data structures that need to be perfect in 6502 assembly makes it a tougher playground than the 2600, let alone the 8-bit computer family.

 

That said, you seem to be past the tough bit now. Welcome to the party! :D

 

Yeah, once you get into 7800 development you can't stop  😁

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6 hours ago, Cris1997XX said:

Will there be any graphical upgrades? 😁

Certainly on the sprites.  The 5200 game had to use single-color cops, not doing that here.

 

3 hours ago, Jaden (JRH) said:

How about these?

lock n chase 7800 sprites.png

Those are nice, and pretty close to the arcade, but I've already got some stuff that @TIX did for the 5200 version.  Some of the early work I wasn't able to use and I'm pushing it forward into this version.

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Hi Ryan,

 

I just saw your Rob 'n' Banks for 5200 and I really liked it, so I'm glad you're developing it for 7800 too. Speaking of graphical updates for this new version, I wanted to ask you to consider using "small dots" as does the arcade version, as the big dots make the playing field look really too crowded, IMHO. A next step would be to make the yellow vertical lines thinner, in order to get a look similar to the high resolution. I would not worry about the small asymmetries that I find really imperceptible compared to the aesthetic advantage that would be obtained (I am attaching a mock-up just to give an idea). Thanks for your kind attention.

 

 

1080772425_7800RobnBankssmalldots.thumb.PNG.c43785c8ed1a165975493e28bd0bf1ea.PNG

 

 

920625982_7800RobnBankssmalldotsv2.thumb.PNG.cdb14a7c80aae22fe9d3beeb7916ac3e.PNG

 

 

320840285_7800RobnBankssmalldotsv3.thumb.PNG.c75c6b395f4e215d217477bcd3e6ca7d.PNG

 

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These are all issues I fought with while doing the 5200 version, and I settled for the fat dots there because the off center lines just look so visually displeasing to me.  I thought about the idea of going to 7 pixel corridors to allow the best of both worlds, but that creates new issues with the way that the screen tiles work (on both consoles).  It would result in a really awkward tileset.

 

I think of all the options, the 7 pixel corridors are the most attractive to me, and I might do some graph paper experiments to see how insane the tileset requirements would end up being.  I can see already that the ROM usage is going to go up significantly because a lot of the tiles that are reusable now would no longer be.

 

Another interesting idea is to do something similar to what I did with Intellidiscs.  In that game, I started with the original recognizer design from the Intellivision before changing it to a new one.  Some people preferred the old one, so I just put them both in and let you choose one from the menu.  It might be possible to do both the centered lines/fat dots and skewed lines/small dots versions and let the player choose between them.

 

Another route is to split the difference in a way that Ms. Pac Man appears to do and make the dots small rectangles.

 

As always, everything is based on trade offs, and I'll have to play around with things and think.  My gut feeling is to go with what I did the 5200, since my main goal here is to learn the 7800 and not stray into anything too fancy.

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3 hours ago, Ryan Witmer said:

I thought about the idea of going to 7 pixel corridors to allow the best of both worlds, but that creates new issues with the way that the screen tiles work (on both consoles).  It would result in a really awkward tileset.

 

I think of all the options, the 7 pixel corridors are the most attractive to me, and I might do some graph paper experiments to see how insane the tileset requirements would end up being.  I can see already that the ROM usage is going to go up significantly because a lot of the tiles that are reusable now would no longer be.

 

Thanks for the answer Ryan, I'm glad 7 pixel corridors are attractive to you and that they have a chance. If I'm not missing something, it looks like you're using 4 x 8 (or 4 x 16) tiles, so with my mock-up I wasn't going to make things too difficult, I just reduced the width of some tiles by 1 pixels, I have precisely reduced the width of the left side of the walls (see image below). This graphical modification of the tiles (already included in the game) will cause three small black stripes on the upper and lower edge of the maze (which you can correct with tiles you already have available) and will cause the loss of the yellow stripe on the right edge of the maze, to correct the which you only need 5 new tiles, assuming you are using 4 x 8 tiles (but even with 4 x 16 tiles it seems equally feasible). But again, I hope I haven't missed something. Of course, whatever direction you want to go, your efforts are appreciated. Thank you.

 

 

ezgif-5-158510b206.gif.1f96619f09781716566af678618f044f.gif

 

 

963983435_RobnBanksnew4x8tiles.thumb.PNG.db585faa8e30d250cd8e16957c31a5da.PNG

 

Edited by Defender_2600
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You read my thoughts on this, 160A for the maze tiles and using 160B for the sprites so that they can have 5 - 6 colors like the arcades version, that would be great. Another tip, use a vertical resolution with 224 lines in order to add the score numbers at the top of the screen, and maybe use 320A mode for the score in high resolution like the arcade version.

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Yep,160A for Maze,160B for sprites,with score in 320A 👍,there isn't that much on screen two five byte headers in indirect mode would cover the screen,then six four byte entries for player,enemies and collectables,couple more if walls ect,I could easily use Defenders tileset with sprites going.Had another idea how to do this Defender?

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1 hour ago, Traxx said:

I could easily use Defenders tileset with sprites going.Had another idea how to do this Defender?

 

It seems to me that there is a misunderstanding here, all the PNG images I have posted in this topic contain Ryan's Tilesets to which I have made some changes just to show a hint for his project. Sometimes I find it more effective to communicate with images rather than text and it just seemed obvious to me that I was showing Ryan's maze. So I apologize for the bad communication. That said, I also think my suggestions have been enough for now.

 

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