Keatah Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) Beyond the incessant desire to get into your wallet, I don't see the "evilness" as being a big deal. Just turn the shit off. Pretty much all I care about is if the product or service works to my advantage. If it comes with too many frivolities just turn the shit off. Spend less time trying to bend or fit new tech to the need at hand. It's either going to work or it isn't. I will spend time making something older work though, repairs, upgrades, repurposing, that sort of thing. Though I can tell you I've seen a drop in the relevancy of google search results. A noticeable step in 2018 and another one now this past year. More and more SEO and advertisement-type results seem to be returned. Edited October 13, 2022 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 36 minutes ago, Keatah said: Beyond the incessant desire to get into your wallet, I don't see the "evilness" as being a big deal. Just turn the shit off. Easier said than done. I try to disconnect from platforms that overstep, but I have vendors that only use paypal, so I have to keep it around. Plus work/school often forces you to use things I'd rather not use. 38 minutes ago, Keatah said: Though I can tell you I've seen a drop in the relevancy of google search results. A noticeable step in 2018 and another one now this past year. More and more SEO and advertisement-type results seem to be returned. Definitely, at some point it seemed that the search engines were good enough to find exactly what you are looking for. In the past 5 years or so, the quality of the results has gotten worse. Seems like certain sites are favored (stackexchange, quora) while others are ignored. For instance, I've found that Reddit often has threads with the answer to the question I'm searching but it usually doesn't show up in my search results unless I explicitly include it in my search terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 58 minutes ago, Keatah said: Beyond the incessant desire to get into your wallet, I don't see the "evilness" as being a big deal. Just turn the shit off. Pretty much all I care about is if the product or service works to my advantage. If it comes with too many frivolities just turn the shit off. Spend less time trying to bend or fit new tech to the need at hand. It's either going to work or it isn't. I will spend time making something older work though, repairs, upgrades, repurposing, that sort of thing. Though I can tell you I've seen a drop in the relevancy of google search results. A noticeable step in 2018 and another one now this past year. More and more SEO and advertisement-type results seem to be returned. 14 minutes ago, zzip said: Easier said than done. I try to disconnect from platforms that overstep, but I have vendors that only use paypal, so I have to keep it around. Plus work/school often forces you to use things I'd rather not use. Definitely, at some point it seemed that the search engines were good enough to find exactly what you are looking for. In the past 5 years or so, the quality of the results has gotten worse. Seems like certain sites are favored (stackexchange, quora) while others are ignored. For instance, I've found that Reddit often has threads with the answer to the question I'm searching but it usually doesn't show up in my search results unless I explicitly include it in my search terms. Too much to explain, and I'm no expert, but I agree w/ Jon Oliver...The problem is not being "Big", but engaging in "Anti-Competitive Behavior"... Hate to just leave a video, but this is Awesome and well worth your time, if you're so inclined... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, GoldLeader said: Too much to explain, and I'm no expert, but I agree w/ Jon Oliver...The problem is not being "Big", but engaging in "Anti-Competitive Behavior"... Anti-competitive behavior makes it 10x worse, but being big itself can be a problem too.. For instance, they can hire an army of lawyers that makes it difficult for most plaintiffs to take them on in court if they've done something wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorclu Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/8/2022 at 9:43 PM, Blazing Lazers said: It's never a good thing when I suddenly get messages from more than one person asking me about the same thing in the news. This time it was related to PayPal, from friends who know that I (used to) sell online. While PayPal already seems to have backtracked, this blew up pretty quickly online and it's very alarming that they would even consider doing something like this, let alone have it approved by multiple layers of management and legal people, as it surely must have been. ... I heard it about this is multiple places, but lastly on the Atari BBSs. Had my PayPal since 2001 but was blown away they would have even thought this. And I deleted my account today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaddog Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/8/2022 at 10:56 PM, Tanooki said: It's curious to see that *mistake* happen given it was founded by Elon Musk who is pretty hard core about freedom of speech enough he went after taking down twitters abuses with that buyout. The original verison (Confinity) was co-founded by Peter Thiel who also took over Musk's role as CEO, and that guy is a far worse tech-bro... I only use PayPal for online payments because my credit union keeps changing my debit card numbers and it's a PITA to change card numbers for each site. I keep nothing in my PP account because I don't totally trust them. I may just use my new credit card for things like auto-pay subs directly and just do away with PP for good. Also I can't just live "off the grid" especially with I'm trying to taking online classes to do IT work. I only use cloud stoage for some things that I have no problem sharing publiclly, like resumes, but still keep my private records on local storage drives. So all I can do is be very careful using online services because let's face it the Internet is not going away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaddog Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/8/2022 at 10:56 PM, Tanooki said: It's curious to see that *mistake* happen given it was founded by Elon Musk who is pretty hard core about freedom of speech enough he went after taking down twitters abuses with that buyout. The original verison (Confinity) was co-founded by Peter Thiel who also took over Musk's role as CEO, and that guy is a far worse tech-bro... I only use PayPal for online payments because my credit union keeps changing my debit card numbers and it's a PITA to change card numbers for each site. I keep nothing in my PP account because I don't totally trust them. I may just use my new credit card for things like auto-pay subs directly and just do away with PP for good. Also I can't just live "off the grid" especially with I'm trying to taking online classes to do IT work. I only use cloud stoage for some things that I have no problem sharing publiclly, like resumes, but still keep my private records on local storage drives. So all I can do is be very careful using online services because let's face it the Internet is not going away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMaddog Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) Oops, double post deleted...can't trust these darn computers! 😝 Edited October 25, 2022 by MrMaddog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitanClassic Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 After the hubbub died down, PayPal decided to put it back in. I guess it wasnt a mistake after all. https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full Quote Restricted Activities, Holds, and Liquidated Damages Restricted Activities In connection with your use of our websites, your PayPal account, the PayPal services, or in the course of your interactions with PayPal, other PayPal customers, or third parties, you must not: Breach this user agreement, the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, the Commercial Entity Agreements (if they apply to you), the PayPal Balance Terms and Conditions (if it applies to you), or any other agreement between you and PayPal; Violate any law, statute, ordinance, or regulation (for example, those governing financial services, consumer protections, unfair competition, anti-discrimination or false advertising); Infringe PayPal’s or any third party’s copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights, or rights of publicity or privacy; Sell counterfeit goods; Act in a manner that is defamatory, trade libelous, threatening or harassing; Provide false, inaccurate or misleading information; Send or receive what we reasonably believe to be potentially fraudulent funds; Refuse to cooperate in an investigation or provide confirmation of your identity or any information you provide to us; Attempt to double dip during the course of a dispute by receiving or attempting to receive funds from both PayPal and the seller, bank or card issuer for the same transaction; Control an account that is linked to another account that has engaged in any of these restricted activities; Conduct your business or use the PayPal services in a manner that results in or may result in; complaints; requests by buyers (either filed with us or card issuers) to invalidate payments made to you; fees, fines, penalties or other liability or losses to PayPal, other PayPal customers, third parties or you; Use your PayPal account or the PayPal services in a manner that PayPal, Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Discover or any other electronic funds transfer network reasonably believes to be an abuse of the card system or a violation of card association or network rules; Allow your PayPal account to have a negative balance; Provide yourself a cash advance from your credit card (or help others to do so); Access the PayPal services from a country that is not included on PayPal’s permitted countries list; Take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our websites, software, systems (including any networks and servers used to provide any of the PayPal services) operated by us or on our behalf or the PayPal services; Facilitate any viruses, trojan horses, malware, worms or other computer programming routines that attempts to or may damage, disrupt, corrupt, misuse, detrimentally interfere with, surreptitiously intercept or expropriate, or gain unauthorized access to any system, data, information or PayPal services; Use an anonymizing proxy; use any robot, spider, other automatic device, or manual process to monitor or copy our websites without our prior written permission; or use any device, software or routine to bypass our robot exclusion headers; Interfere or disrupt or attempt to interfere with or disrupt our websites, software, systems (including any networks and servers used to provide any of the PayPal services) operated by us or on our behalf, any of the PayPal services or other users’ use of any of the PayPal services; Take any action that may cause us to lose any of the services from our Internet service providers, payment processors, or other suppliers or service providers; Use the PayPal services to test credit card behaviors; Circumvent any PayPal policy or determinations about your PayPal account such as temporary or indefinite suspensions or other account holds, limitations or restrictions, including, but not limited to, engaging in the following actions: attempting to open new or additional PayPal account(s) when an account has a negative balance or has been restricted, suspended or otherwise limited; opening new or additional PayPal accounts using information that is not your own (e.g., name, address, email address, etc.); or using someone else’s PayPal account; or Harass and/or threaten our employees, agents, or other users. Abuse of our online dispute resolution process and/or PayPal’s Purchase Protection program and/or PayPal’s Seller Protection program. Actions We May Take if You Engage in Any Restricted Activities If we believe that you’ve engaged in any of these activities, we may take a number of actions to protect PayPal, its customers and others at any time in our sole discretion. The actions we may take include, but are not limited to, the following: Terminating this user agreement, limiting your PayPal account (and any linked Balance Account), and/or closing or suspending your PayPal account (and any linked Balance Account), immediately and without penalty to us; Refusing to provide the PayPal services to you in the future; Limiting your access to our websites, software, systems (including any networks and servers used to provide any of the PayPal services) operated by us or on our behalf, your PayPal account or any of the PayPal services, including limiting your ability to pay or send money with any of the payment methods linked to your PayPal account, restricting your ability to send money or make withdrawals; Holding the balance in your Balance Account, the balance in your business account, or any money waiting to be claimed through your personal account if you do not have a Balance Account linked to your personal account, for up to 180 days if reasonably needed to protect against the risk of liability or if you have violated our Acceptable Use Policy. The hold may remain in place longer than 180 days according to Court Orders, Regulatory Requirements, or Other Legal Processes; Suspending your eligibility for PayPal’s Purchase Protection program and/or PayPal’s Seller Protection program; If your eligibility is suspended, amounts you retained under PayPal’s Seller Protection program in the 30 calendar days prior to your suspension may be recovered as amounts owed to PayPal. These amounts constitute actual damages suffered by PayPal as a result of your actions (i.e., payments that you retained at PayPal’s expense that you were not otherwise entitled to), and we may debit your PayPal account accordingly. Charging the High Volume Dispute fees for all current and future disputes irrespective of your dispute ratio or sales volumes, given PayPal’s increased involvement as a result of such Restricted Activity; Contacting buyers who have purchased goods or services from you using PayPal, your bank or credit card issuer, other impacted third parties, or law enforcement about your actions; Updating inaccurate information you provided us; Taking legal action against you; If you’ve violated our Acceptable Use Policy, then you’re also responsible for damages to PayPal caused by your violation of this policy; or If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal’s damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal’s actual damages - including, but not limited to, internal administrative costs incurred by PayPal to monitor and track violations, damage to PayPal’s brand and reputation, and penalties imposed upon PayPal by its business partners resulting from a user’s violation - considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated because, due to the nature of the violations of the Acceptable Use Policy, actual damages would be impractical or extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing balance in any PayPal account you control. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H454 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 hour ago, CapitanClassic said: damage to PayPal’s brand and reputation, When somebody says a mean thing about PayPal: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 2 hours ago, CapitanClassic said: After the hubbub died down, PayPal decided to put it back in. I guess it wasnt a mistake after all. https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full In one of PayPal's original statements on the matter, they said that this language is only to apply to people selling with PayPal and related directly to the item. For instance, saying that colloidal silver will cure cancer, or your stock 1955 Belair Chevrolet has a 327 with a four-barrel carb in it. It is no stretch to consider this rule could apply to statements made on a podcast which accepts subscription payments or donations via PayPal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitanClassic Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, OLD CS1 said: In one of PayPal's original statements on the matter, they said that this language is only to apply to people selling with PayPal and related directly to the item. For instance, saying that colloidal silver will cure cancer, or your stock 1955 Belair Chevrolet has a 327 with a four-barrel carb in it. It is no stretch to consider this rule could apply to statements made on a podcast which accepts subscription payments or donations via PayPal. That isnt how I would read the agreement as a lay person. Under {Restricted Activities}, the latter part of the (or) statement is in regard to interaction with third parties (that arent PayPal customers) "In connection with your use of our websites, your PayPal account, the PayPal services, or in the course of your interactions with PayPal, other PayPal customers, or third parties, you must not:" I probably read the $2,500 part wrong though, since as you said it knoy applies to sellers, and appears to only be for items that violate the Acceptable Use Policy of the PayPal User Agreement, "If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal’s damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy" Edited October 27, 2022 by CapitanClassic Typos galore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OLD CS1 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 8 hours ago, CapitanClassic said: That isnt how I would read the agreement as a lay person. Under {Restricted Activities}, the latter part of the (or) statement is NOT in regard to interaction with third parties (that arent PayPal customers) "In connection with your use of our websites, your PayPal account, the PayPal services, or in the course of your interactions with PayPal, other PayPal customers, or third parties, you must not:" I probably read the $2,500 part wrong though, since as you said it knoy applies to sellers, and appears to only be for items that violationed the Acceptable Use Policy of the PayPal User Agreement, "If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal’s damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy" NOBODY believed PayPal. Its own words belie its position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 9 hours ago, OLD CS1 said: In one of PayPal's original statements on the matter, they said that this language is only to apply to people selling with PayPal and related directly to the item. For instance, saying that colloidal silver will cure cancer, or your stock 1955 Belair Chevrolet has a 327 with a four-barrel carb in it. It is no stretch to consider this rule could apply to statements made on a podcast which accepts subscription payments or donations via PayPal. then they should be clear "false advertising" or "misrepresenting a product you are selling". "Provide false, inaccurate or misleading information" is vague and open to abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 11 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said: NOBODY believed PayPal. Its own words belie its position. They owe themselves $2500 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinese Cake Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Paypal was a pain holding peoples money and heading toward being monopolistic way before recently. The issue is that Paypal wants to be a bank but doesn't want the accountability of one, now they want to go after people with fees for violating terms instead of just suspending or closing their accounts. Another issue with this is that vaguely defined parameters of "misleading" "false/inaccurate" information has always expanded way beyond the issues cited that the implementing company mentions, and there are always "mistakes" or "wrongful" enforcement of polices like this. The same with "defamation". Paypal has locked many innocent peoples money for them "believing" that there was something suspicious with send or received funds. For years, if I have to use PP the only things that are connected to it (and temporarily if I can help it) are prepaid cards and the banks tied to them. That way I don't have to worry about problems with my "real" money. Many prepaid card providers will send you an activated card with your name on it for free, you just have to add money. (Or if you buy them ins tore you have to pay $5 on top of what you're adding.) in order for me to avoid problems. I refuse to use Venmo and will use Zelle or Cashapp or anything else instead. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazing Lazers Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 I'm astonished that they would actually be so blatant about their intentions, and so shortsighted after their stock has dropped by over half this year. https://gritdaily.com/pr-crisis-paypal/ https://m.slashdot.org/story/406457 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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