candle Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 James, except when you have no contract 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, ivop said: TIL: Never agree on a fixed amount of money but ask for a percentage instead, with a fixed absolute minimum. If prices go down, you are guaranteed a minimum. If prices go up, your fee goes up. This. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Bikerbob said: Well I would say that FJC has a side to be taken.. Yes, but I don't think he was being proposed as a neutral Polish mediator. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Gents, I hope you guys can sort this out between you, do NOT get involved with courts and lawyers if you can help it, they will cost you years of profit in fee's, I'm sure neither of you need that. I've been a customer of both parties, but I feel so sorry for Jon, unlike both of you he has just his repair side to fall back on, whereas you both have other products in a roundabout way. For the love of all things Atari, please TALK to each other, even if it's by email... Paul.. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+gnusto Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 @lotharek and @candle what if you approached pricing on a proportion basis? So as an example, Candle is a set percentage of net profit and then base price is set on some index that avoids local inflation? It means the overall price would change over time, but I think with this community in particular that would not be controversial. So basically it works like "cost of manufacture is xx PL, cost of sale is yy PL (set by exchange to USD maybe, which is often used as a "buying power" metric, but you could use any relative index). Out of cost of sale yy PL, Candle gets zz PL which is a percentage of value left over from sale when cost of manufacture is subtracted from sale. This is an idea used in many businesses world wide. Going by relative percentages means you are always guarding the value of your labor + needed income on top of costs. Just a suggestion though, I hope this can be resolved as you two + fjc basically make the modern 8-bit experience a dream compared to what we used to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 18 minutes ago, candle said: James, except when you have no contract I'm not a lawyer so this is just opinion, but I'm guessing the agreement would probably be treated as a verbal contract in court. Then it's he said/she said and whatever evidence you have to back it up such as emails, payments based on sales, etc... Without some sort of agreement on cancellation, you probably can't, but lack of availability of parts would effectively end the production without some alternative replacement part anyway. As far as that goes, any stuff he makes that you worked on may cease to work eventually due to parts availability, and he wouldn't be able to sell those products anymore without more work from someone. If what you have produced recently isn't stable as he says, he can't just go on producing the product with different parts. If he were able to, it might prove what he said is false, and you'd possibly have legal recourse. I would think he'd have to cough up what he used in court, and it would either be your work or not. Unless the courts force the loser to pay all legal costs, I don't see how this would turn out favorably for either of you. Whatever you do, don't leave a lawsuit unchallenged or you are sure to lose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1200XL M.U.L.E. Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 😪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fell Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 If there is no contract that forces you to work with one manufacturer, please look for another one. There are other established companies that can manufacture and sell items. I wouldn't mind paying a little more for new items. I think it's not good to give one person exclusive rights to manufacture items; that just opens the door for unfair pricing and gouging. It would be great to have a manufacturer or more in the US, UK, and Europe (Germany). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
as... Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 In the Poland, they probably started without us. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Hello guys To @candle and @lotharek, please find a way to sort things out. We need you guys and we need you guys to work together. To all others: Please stop discussing this topic. We're not going to resolve this, Candle and Lotharek will have to do that. We can only make things worse. So please stop. Sincerely Mathy 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Since all our opinions aren't going to really help the situation, maybe the topic can be closed so they can try to work out in private. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Just open source everything. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted October 11, 2022 Author Share Posted October 11, 2022 thank you all for your keen words my only intention when i started this thread was to inform you all about lotharek ending cooperation with me, this implies certain outcome, and this is it if moderator wishes to close this thread, and this is what you want then let it be that way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 if cooperation was ended then this thread should by closed. if you start cooperate again with @lotharek (or someone new) do another one to inform future buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 This thread was created BECAUSE the cooperation has ended and it provides some useful insights for current and future customers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 "some useful insights"? how immature retro guys can be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, zbyti said: "some useful insights"? how immature retro guys can be? Topics like this can help me decide where to spend my money and who I'd like to associate with regarding projects. I've never found unspoken rules, secret gatekeeping and censorship helpful. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 it's not about censorship, close this, not delete it, so as not to pile up comments when the gentlemen will get along in a week, etc. and what did you know? @lotharek treading peoples his lawyers, instead of looking for a better solution? @candle called a fool, will not wait 3 days, but takes his toys right away and make this public? yes, those guys are short tempered 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Just one last thing. This is for anyone making hardware projects, not necessarily this project given the comments. If someone has an agreement to provide firmware and or a programmable logic file for a CPLD or FPGA, then person doing the manufacturing had boards made/ordered parts, and the firmware or programmable logic file(s) aren't delivered, the manufacturer *may* have legal recourse. Don't know if it would just be their costs, or if legal fees, damages, or whatever could be added on. I'd guess that is determined by the legal jurisdiction and the nature of the contract. If you then badmouth the other party, say it's their fault the product wasn't delivered, whatever, then libel or slander may also come into play. Any misrepresentation, even if it's a lie of omission (left out an important fact) regarding the situation could be a problem, so be careful to stick strictly to the facts if you are going to make something like this public. I realize emotions may be running high, but I think I'd try to deal with the situation quietly, at least till AFTER you consult the attorney as to your rights, risks, and for careful wording of any public statement. Given what attorney's cost... is it worth it? And ultimately, what if you loose do to some legal technicality no matter which party you are in this situation? This is unfortunate, and I hope it can be resolved in some mutually beneficial way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) One wants to stick to $8, the other wants to raise it to $12. Make it a tenner, let the customer pay the extra 2 bucks, and be done with it. Edit: and put it on paper this time Edited October 11, 2022 by ivop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0ri Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 18 hours ago, Mr Robot said: Just open source everything. I completely agree. Only then can there be further unhindered development. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 And then there are exchange rates, which make things yet more rewarding. The 'FJC' agreement which was worth GBP 11 per unit two years ago is now worth GBP 9, and the SIDE3 agreement currently nets GBP 7 per unit (again, down on when the deal was cut) on a device currently selling for 100 pounds in the UK. This would be great if I did all my food shopping at ALDI in Warsaw. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 I really think a mod should close this as already said, I'd hate to see it blow up because of un-needed comments based on incomplete facts..It was nice of Candle and Lotharek to openly discuss the brief details, but it's not really anything to do with us lot. The choice of buy or not to buy will still be the same.. Hoping for a pleasant outcome for all parties.. Paul.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: the SIDE3 agreement currently nets GBP 7 per unit (again, down on when the deal was cut) on a device currently selling for 100 pounds in the UK Isn't this roughly twice the price of an AVG cart? Is there really such a big difference in manufacturing costs between the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, t0ri said: I completely agree. Only then can there be further unhindered development. Regards I propose new thread about that, inflation, whatever - message of this thread was received. For now collaboration was ended, new co-op is work in progress :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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