flashjazzcat Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Just now, DjayBee said: Is there really such a big difference in manufacturing costs between the two? I sincerely doubt it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 minute ago, flashjazzcat said: And then there are exchange rates, which make things yet more rewarding. The 'FJC' agreement which was worth GBP 11 per unit two years ago is now worth GBP 9, and the SIDE3 agreement currently nets GBP 7 per unit (again, down on when the deal was cut) on a device currently selling for 100 pounds in the UK. This would be great if I did all my food shopping at ALDI in Warsaw. Here's hoping for you Jon..I know most of the details from talking to you (not all, as it's none of my business) but your name on the firmware gives it a mark of quality as I said to you a while back, lets hope that is rewarded in any new deal.. That's my lot on this.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Hilarious. 47,000 lines of code so far produced by me for SIDE3 and you want it open-sourced because that's the only way to assure continued development. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, t0ri said: I completely agree. Only then can there be further unhindered development. Regards On the CoCo, the CoCoSDC can be produced pretty much anyone willing to license the design, and leave it unmodified. Not sure exact details, but it's been produced on and off by at least 3 different companies. It's not open source, but if one company can't build it for whatever reason, another one can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Mclaneinc said: Here's hoping for you Jon Well, the salient point is that without firmware, the device is a door-stop, and without hardware, there is no way to run the software. And without either, there is nothing for the vendor to sell. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 minute ago, flashjazzcat said: Hilarious. 47,000 lines of code so far produced by me for SIDE3 and you want it open-sourced because that's the only way to assure continued development. Yeah, I've got a project that I'm doing for free. The amount of time involved might pay for a decent used car if I were getting real work wages. And yet I get "is it done yet, is it done yet", and if I release it they'll be "fix this", "fix that"... for free. It's not fair to expect someone to spend so much time on something, only to give it away. If someone chooses to do that, good for them, but don't just assume it should be open source. A significant amount of personal time was sacrificed for this project, and it's only fair to receive some compensation it they want it. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astal4 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 So is it true or not that you threatened to sue for ~$14,000 USD @lotharek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelen Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 This all is very sad news... We all need those fantastic-new Atari products... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astal4 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 I hope this is cleared up, but the fact that this even happened in an already small community is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuf Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, Astal4 said: So is it true or not that you threatened to sue for ~$14,000 USD @lotharek Stand down 30 post guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astal4 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, tuf said: Stand down 30 post guy. I had an old account I transferred over from, no need to be rude. I'm not very active on the forums but I am very active in the Discord. Edited October 11, 2022 by Astal4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0ri Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 hours ago, flashjazzcat said: Hilarious. 47,000 lines of code so far produced by me for SIDE3 and you want it open-sourced because that's the only way to assure continued development. Hi, You do not have to do that. You have to? I'm not in a funny mood as I write this. Anyway IMO this thread should be closed. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 11 minutes ago, t0ri said: You do not have to do that. You have to? I'm not in a funny mood as I write this. It was either that or not bother (which I am free to do), and then you get a mediocre product or no product at all. I suppose the assumption is that anyone can do it, however, and they'll do it for free. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 I'm sorry to hear this news. I'm beneficiary as in owning some of these devices. The pricing - really, I've been tempted to buy a bunch more stuff lately, the price of things like U1Meg and VBXE now vs ~ 2010 when I got mine is almost twice as affordable. Yeah - it would be nice if some mutually beneficial resolution could be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 6 hours ago, flashjazzcat said: Hilarious. 47,000 lines of code so far produced by me for SIDE3 and you want it open-sourced because that's the only way to assure continued development. I was waiting for you or @candle to say something on this first before I commented. Open source isn't the answer for every situation. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 The harvard gazette had a report about a research study on 932 conversations between pairs of people finds that most conversations don’t end when the participants want them to. Some feel as if conversations are too short while others think they go on far too long. "Researchers suggest these discrepancies came down to not knowing when the other person wanted to cut the chatter, and both people hiding their intentions in order to be polite." They sure would have a different result if the study were done here. I enjoyed the conversation and learned a lot. Now, I do pay for my software. And, in my recollection even sent a donation for my use of "The Last Word", but this idea that I'm practically getting my other software for free or $8 is not something I had known about before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 hours ago, t0ri said: Hi, You do not have to do that. You have to? I'm not in a funny mood as I write this. Anyway IMO this thread should be closed. Regards The moderators here don't seem to care what we think about what threads should be open and what should be closed. 5 hours ago, flashjazzcat said: It was either that or not bother (which I am free to do), and then you get a mediocre product or no product at all. I suppose the assumption is that anyone can do it, however, and they'll do it for free. Don't pay attention to 31 post guy... we're in this for you. He actually is trying to do some things for the Atari Community too... so if he doesn't appreciate people like you, he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracon Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, zbyti said: I propose new thread about that, inflation, whatever - message of this thread was received. For now collaboration was ended, new co-op is work in progress :] But why, Zbyti? Do not multiply similar threads, please! Too bad there are only few Atari hardware-devs nowadays... Edited October 12, 2022 by Dracon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, Dracon said: But why, Zbyti? Do not multiply similar threads, please! Because open source (but not freeware) is interesting topic and this thread don't indicate this subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0ri Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Tillek said: 13 minutes ago, zbyti said: Because open source (but not freeware) is interesting topic and this thread don't indicate this subject Bingo! Edited October 12, 2022 by t0ri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astal4 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 15 hours ago, Tillek said: The moderators here don't seem to care what we think about what threads should be open and what should be closed. Don't pay attention to 31 post guy... we're in this for you. He actually is trying to do some things for the Atari Community too... so if he doesn't appreciate people like you, he will. I do appreciate FJC's contributions, my annoyance is open source going closed source in the middle, not closed source from the beginning, and I understand that, as it is what I am doing for my projects. Choosing a licencing method and then tighting down on it later just annoys me, it's a personal pet peeve, nothing more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0ri Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 It is not a matter of appreciating the FJC or not. I know him from posts on Atari Area. There is no need to bid on the number of lines of code or devices designed and time spent on it, because I could say something about it too. I feel very sorry for Candle for such a nonsensical situation. May everything stabilize as soon as possible for the benefit of the entire Atari community. I always appreciate people who give something meaningful - and preferably as much information and help as possible. 33 post guy is leaving this thread. Best regards tOri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, t0ri said: There is no need to bid on the number of lines of code or devices designed and time spent on it, because I could say something about it too. You said open-sourcing was the only way to assure continued development. I cited the number of lines of code written not as a means of 'bidding', but to illustrate the enormous amount of 'continued development' already (and continually) undertaken. In other words, how much continued development do you want, such that open-sourcing would assure same? The day I presume to advise you what to do with your source code, you might have something to complain about. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Everyone playing international lawyer on this thread who aren’t actually international lawyers, please just stop. These two guys can either consult with real lawyers in their respective jurisdictions and go from there, or not. But the strengths and weakenesses of their positions will not turn on what a bunch of internet randos tell them on a forum. Anyway, I’m sad this thread is still open, too. And I am sadder still that the two principles (plus FJC as a more-than-interested bystander) are in such conflict. I hope it’s resolved amicably, one way or another, and sooner rather than later. I know @Albert had talked about adding one or two 8-bit moderators. If that ever came to pass, now would be a good time for one or more of them to decide what to do with this thread. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) The irony about threads being closed upon request is that it rarely (if ever) happens. Unless a thread is truly going off the deep end or getting abusive, mods tend to wait for any rough edges to work themselves out -- or let the thread die its own natural death. Edited October 12, 2022 by MrFish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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