Astal4 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, t0ri said: It is not a matter of appreciating the FJC or not. I know him from posts on Atari Area. There is no need to bid on the number of lines of code or devices designed and time spent on it, because I could say something about it too. I feel very sorry for Candle for such a nonsensical situation. May everything stabilize as soon as possible for the benefit of the entire Atari community. I always appreciate people who give something meaningful - and preferably as much information and help as possible. 33 post guy is leaving this thread. Best regards tOri I never once said anything on the number of lines of code, I just said I don't like projects switching licensing in the middle... Edit: there's two of us with low post counts and I'm confused. Edited October 12, 2022 by Astal4 Confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Astal4 said: Edit: there's two of us with low post counts and I'm confused. FJC wrote about @t0ri but @t0ri is well known as music card designer for A8 and as far as I remember he public his work for everyone. Edited October 12, 2022 by zbyti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astal4 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Just now, zbyti said: FJC wrote about @t0ri but @t0ri is well know as music card designer for A8 and as far as I remember he public his work for everyone. Ah I'm designing cartridges and addon stuff for the Atari consoles so I got extra confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Astal4 said: I do appreciate FJC's contributions, my annoyance is open source going closed source in the middle, not closed source from the beginning, and I understand that, as it is what I am doing for my projects. Choosing a licencing method and then tighting down on it later just annoys me, it's a personal pet peeve, nothing more. I apologize for giving you the impression this was directed at you... you were not the "post 31 guy" I was talking about.. It was t0ri's comment to FJC I was referring to (he's also a ~30 post guy). Seeing now that someone mentioned that about you.... I see where it got mixed up... but just to be clear, it wasn't anything to do with your comments. Mostly it was just about making sure FJC knows I appreciate his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astal4 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Tillek said: I apologize for giving you the impression this was directed at you... you were not the "post 31 guy" I was talking about.. It was t0ri's comment to FJC I was referring to (he's also a ~30 post guy). Seeing now that someone mentioned that about you.... I see where it got mixed up... but just to be clear, it wasn't anything to do with your comments. Mostly it was just about making sure FJC knows I appreciate his work. I appreciate all the work in the community, it's a small group of us and it's just passsion projects for the most part, shout out to all the people who have been keeping not Infogrames Atari alive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 28 minutes ago, Astal4 said: I never once said anything on the number of lines of code, I just said I don't like projects switching licensing in the middle... Edit: there's two of us with low post counts and I'm confused. Right.... I think one person earlier might have been talking about you, but I was talking about t0ri having responded to FJC's response to t0ri's response. There... cleared it all up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuf Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tillek said: Right.... I think one person earlier might have been talking about you, but I was talking about t0ri having responded to FJC's response to t0ri's response. There... cleared it all up! Exactly! Astal4 was the original 30 post guy, now up to 38. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Tillek said: Mostly it was just about making sure FJC knows I appreciate his work. and I appreciate @bocianu, @ilmenit, @tebe and others for his open source projects. open source means "we share the knowledge", close sorce means for me: "I want profit in the first place" (nothing wrong but not help retro heritage much). @Dracon see? I don't make appropriate thread because I respect you Edited October 12, 2022 by zbyti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, tuf said: Exactly! Astal4 was the original 30 post guy, now up to 38. So... really the best solution for making sure this never happens again is for Astal4 to always stay 10 posts ahead of t0ri, and that way we'll never get the two confused ever again! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 1 hour ago, zbyti said: and I appreciate @bocianu, @ilmenit, @tebe and others for his open source projects. open source means "we share the knowledge", close sorce means for me: "I want profit in the first place" (nothing wrong but not help retro heritage much). @Dracon see? I don't make appropriate thread because I respect you To me, "open source" means you'll end up with 50 versions of everything and the original writer becomes "obligated" to be everyone's Yoda. (and by "obligated" I mean that people are going to bother that person, regardless and make them out to be a prick if they don't choose to spend all their time helping people figure out their code which they'll likely use to create something they decide is "closed source" and make more on it than you ever did on your "open source"). 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 @Tillek you are mixing things, but hey I'm not open source evangelist, if you don't grasp this simple idea "share the knowledge" already I can't help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Hello guys The problem with closing threads is that new threads with the same topic can and will be opened if you close the thread too soon. That's why moderators are hesitant to close threads. I should know, I've been a moderator on a different forum for I guess one and a half decades. Sincerely Mathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Pretty funny... I found this... it's a real product... hahaha 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, zbyti said: @Tillek you are mixing things, but hey I'm not open source evangelist, if you don't grasp this simple idea "share the knowledge" already I can't help. Or maybe I've seen this play out in ways you haven't. Sometimes people like you aren't ignorant because they're stupid... it's because they haven't had experiences that others had. I don't know your background. I don't know if you've ever actually worked in the software industry and what experiences you've had. I do know my background and what I've done in the software industry. You're trying to be insulting by inferring that I don't understand the concept of "sharing the knowledge". I'm positive you don't understand the concepts or proprietary knowledge and the "costs" involved in developing that. Costs that... frankly, you haven't paid. Why should I spend months or years on something and then just "give" it to you for whatever purpose you want to use it for? Who are you? Why do I care about you? A: "I shouldn't", "No one of consequence", "I don't". After all... isn't the journey half the fun? Have fun on the journey!!!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Missed the moment when this thread changed from 'situational awareness' thread into 'open sores campaign' thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tillek said: Or maybe I've seen this play out in ways you haven't. Sometimes people like you aren't ignorant because they're stupid... it's because they haven't had experiences that others had. I don't know your background. I don't know if you've ever actually worked in the software industry and what experiences you've had. I do know my background and what I've done in the software industry. You're trying to be insulting by inferring that I don't understand the concept of "sharing the knowledge". I'm positive you don't understand the concepts or proprietary knowledge and the "costs" involved in developing that. Costs that... frankly, you haven't paid. Why should I spend months or years on something and then just "give" it to you for whatever purpose you want to use it for? Who are you? Why do I care about you? A: "I shouldn't", "No one of consequence", "I don't". After all... isn't the journey half the fun? Have fun on the journey!!!! No one force you to open your projects. I talked mostly about retro things. I use Eclipse (open source), Java (open source variant), Apache (open source), PHP (open source), JS (open source) and so on. I like Mega65 project (open source), Commander X16 (open source). ARM company make ARM chips open-source and so on. By such wise people as you who are not ignorant and not stupid to this day there is no 100% accurate SID replacement and the 6502 had to be cut into pieces many times to do reverse engineering. Like I said - you mixing thins, even if you open your project you do not have to cooperate with anyone, you are not obliged to accept PR, etc. Once again - open sorce not have to be freeware and it's not obligatory but helps develop, abandoned project can be continued, even in such unfortunate cases as with Raster, someone could develop RMT without unnecessary work, but you don't see it because you don't understand what hobby is and money close your mind. ps.1 or maybe you are a demoscene programmer and keep the source closed to have an advantage over others? ps.2 anyway, there is an opinion why demoscene did not develop in the USA, because you do not understand the idea of coding for fun Edited October 13, 2022 by zbyti ps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebe Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebe Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 when you share the source code, miracles happen https://habr.com/en/post/440372/?fbclid=IwAR3SdW_HAqt6psraDj41UtNxFEXIgynOUKvS2d2cwPsJiF0kO_kDTNfYZg4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I look at it this way, it's Jons work from day one, he knows his way of doing stuff and so far it's been pretty damn amazing. This would turn in to a 'too many cooks' scenario if he were to make it open source. Yes there can be incredible feats of code improvement when open source, but I also look at MAME and have seen how so many ideas can lead to weird branches. And lastly, its been a small but hopefully steady income for Jon, how does that work when it's open source? Sorry if I don't know all the details of how OS works, I'm not a dev. To be honest, I don't know why the thread is still going, this is for Candle and Lotharek to work out with a thought towards Jon, the rest of us are just muddying the waters when it needs nothing of that nature to happen. As for trying to push open source, leave it alone eh, it's Jon's gig, always has been, and he dictates what happens. If nothing else, we risk demotivating Jon, not what he or us needs. Paull...Out.. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, tebe said: when you share the source code, miracles happen https://habr.com/en/post/440372/?fbclid=IwAR3SdW_HAqt6psraDj41UtNxFEXIgynOUKvS2d2cwPsJiF0kO_kDTNfYZg4 Do you know if the show can be watched online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said: If nothing else, we risk demotivating Jon, not what he or us needs. Yep, especially since we woke up this morning to discover a brick had been thrown through our front window during the night, so these petty squbbles over open-sourcing look increasingly pathetic and irrelevant now that we no longer feel safe, secure or relaxed in our own home. The firmware won't be open sourced, period, so deal with it. If I sense death is near, I'll beqeath my projects to one of my trusted Atari friends in order to continue development or release to the community as they see fit. Or if - at some point in the future - I do get sick of the whole business and commercial agreements have lapsed, I'll give it to one of the aforementioned trusted contacts or put it up on a public server, then watch with amazement as continued devlopment fails to occur. Meanwhile, I'll just go order myself one of those open-source UNO or Ultimate carts. Oops... no can do. They're sold out, and haven't seen an iota of continued development since they were released to the public. Edited October 13, 2022 by flashjazzcat 9 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 36 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: Yep, especially since we woke up this morning to discover a brick had been thrown through our front window during the night, so these petty squbbles over open-sourcing look increasingly pathetic and irrelevant now that we no longer feel safe, secure or relaxed in our own home. Wow, sorry to hear that. Stay safe Jon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Really sorry to hear that Jon, apart from the window I hope nothing else was damaged. I'm overdue for a contribution to you for all your hard work, will send a token over today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Sorry to hear Jon, I hope that the brick was just people being arseholes and not some ongoing thing? I recently had some idiot attack my car with a hammer in the middle of the night..No idea why? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 53 minutes ago, TGB1718 said: Really sorry to hear that Jon, apart from the window I hope nothing else was damaged. I'm overdue for a contribution to you for all your hard work, will send a token over today. Good idea. Just sent 20gbp over to help with the window repair. Least I could do with all that Jon has contributed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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