A discussion about the MSX computers

[Tuxon86]

Hi!,

 

When I first started getting interested in computers (early to mid 80's), I bought just about every computer related magazine I could get my hand on with the limited funds that I had. They were a mix of French and US based publication. I thus read about what was available in Canada and abroad. I ended up buying into the local brands like Commodore, Atari and TRS-80, but one platform was always my unicorn, my bucket list material, the MSX computer line. I know that it didn't catch on in North America, most of the Z80 based machines didn't for some reason, but I love the variety of models that were produced.

 

Today, it's relatively easy to get one and they're not that expensive, especially if you get a Sakhr modified unit from Egypt or elsewhere in North Africa/Middle East. Most have dual "bios", arabic/english. Carts for the system are also plentiful and not that expensive. 

 

I've always wondered what could've been if they'd continued to push the standard past the 8bit era and moved it to the 16 or 32 bit era, maybe dropping CP/M and going for MSDOS, undercutting the like of Compaq and other PC clones producers with offering from japanese electronics firms like Panasonic, Toshiba, JVC and Sony and sparing us the years of bland beige box on the desk.

 

 

[jhd]

 

As far as I am aware, only Yamaha sold an MSX computer in Canada -- and that was aimed entirely at professional musicians. I have a dim recollection of seeing one being sold in a professional music store, alongside the keyboards and other MIDI hardware. They were definitely not marketed as general purpose computers. 

 

Was the MSX ever considered a serious "business" computer in those markets where it was more widely adopted, or was it always relegated to the home market (and used mainly for games)? 

[Tuxon86]

18 minutes ago, jhd said:

 

As far as I am aware, only Yamaha sold an MSX computer in Canada -- and that was aimed entirely at professional musicians. I have a dim recollection of seeing one being sold in a professional music store, alongside the keyboards and other MIDI hardware. They were definitely not marketed as general purpose computers. 

 

Was the MSX ever considered a serious "business" computer in those markets where it was more widely adopted, or was it always relegated to the home market (and used mainly for games)? 

It was created in a partnership of Microsoft and ASCII corp, so I believe they were thinking general purposed computers at a time when that idea wasn't all defined. They could run CP/M so like the Apple II line they could be both home and business computers. Some of the offerings had more traditional form and function (box with detachable keyboard). 

 

I just think that we somewhat missed out on some Z80 based machine on our side of the world. They did enjoy some popularity in the southern american market like Brazil and Argentina.

 

 

[youxia]

1 hour ago, Tuxon86 said:

I've always wondered what could've been if they'd continued to push the standard past the 8bit era and moved it to the 16 or 32 bit era, maybe dropping CP/M and going for MSDOS, undercutting the like of Compaq and other PC clones producers with offering from japanese electronics firms like Panasonic, Toshiba, JVC and Sony and sparing us the years of bland beige box on the desk.

The beige box might've been bland to look at, but it certainly packed a punch and most importantly was cheap. The latter is a function of the former too. Japanese PC computers from that era were great, but also rather expensive, and so would have been the case with MSX (like what happened later on with MSX 2 and Turbo models). If not, then it would be just another bland beige box, only made in Asia.

 

As for the modern times, they can indeed be very addictive to collect, what with the variety of models and funky shapes. I have 2 myself. I even actually think that I somehow prefer my humble PAL Philips VG 8020 model over the more capable Panasonic FS-A1, there is somthing alluring about its simplicity and the really charming, simple early games. The later multi disk ones can be a bit of a pain to run from the flashcarts.

[Tuxon86]

31 minutes ago, youxia said:

The beige box might've been bland to look at, but it certainly packed a punch and most importantly was cheap. The latter is a function of the former too. Japanese PC computers from that era were great, but also rather expensive, and so would have been the case with MSX (like what happened later on with MSX 2 and Turbo models). If not, then it would be just another bland beige box, only made in Asia.

 

As for the modern times, they can indeed be very addictive to collect, what with the variety of models and funky shapes. I have 2 myself. I even actually think that I somehow prefer my humble PAL Philips VG 8020 model over the more capable Panasonic FS-A1, there is somthing alluring about its simplicity and the really charming, simple early games. The later multi disk ones can be a bit of a pain to run from the flashcarts.

The model I've on order is a MSX2 with built-in floppy drive, Sakhr AX370 (Sanyo). It's an MSX2+ that has been downgraded to MSX2 via the arabized bios. All the 2+ hardware is present and I think it could be turned back to a 2+ with a bios swap. A bit beaten up but everything is functional, including the drive.

I don't really collect games, I prefer learning to code on those old beast and make my own. 

 

https://www.msx.org/wiki/Sakhr_AX-370

[+5-11under]

I remember back in the day, my brother and I went to a local computer show in Toronto, Canada. Many booths were showing new/upcoming MSX machines. We loved the idea of compatibility, we liked the Z80 (same as our ZX80/81), and the keyboard with arrow keys and sometimes joystick seemed like a great idea for a home computer. Unfortunately, it never took off around here. Much later, I did get a Yamaha CX5M, as part of a DX7 purchase.

[Austin]

I have never owned a MSX but discovered it through emulation in the late '90s. Given the amount of really solid Konami games on it, I fell in love with the library. I would still like to own one some day. Had a chance for one locally a few months back for a great deal, but it was snapped up from under me. One day. At this moment I play its games via some of the old Konami MSX collections, the Japanese Wii U Virtual Console, as well as on the MiSTer.

[Tuxon86]

1 hour ago, Austin said:

I have never owned a MSX but discovered it through emulation in the late '90s. Given the amount of really solid Konami games on it, I fell in love with the library. I would still like to own one some day. Had a chance for one locally a few months back for a great deal, but it was snapped up from under me. One day. At this moment I play its games via some of the old Konami MSX collections, the Japanese Wii U Virtual Console, as well as on the MiSTer.

The MISTer is great, but at the price they're going these day, you can buy 3 MSX computer from egypt including shipping... I exagerate a bit, but they're quite pricey.

 

[Austin]

6 hours ago, Tuxon86 said:

The MISTer is great, but at the price they're going these day, you can buy 3 MSX computer from egypt including shipping... I exagerate a bit, but they're quite pricey.

 

Yeah, but the MiSTer does a wide array of platforms, not just one. So still worth it if you're someone like me.

[+OLD CS1]

I reckon it would have been difficult for an MSX platform to be widely successful in the US.  IBM had a stranglehold on business environments, and what made Compaq and clones successful was peoples' desire to work with at home what they had at work, and to do so inexpensively.  Then Jack Tramiel cannot be disregarded, as he waged an all-out war on the home computer market to gain dominance.  Between the Atari 400/800, VIC-20 then the Commodore 64, and the Apple II, the 8-bit home computer market was all but tied up, with many contenders like the ColecoVision Adam (I never realized how big that actually was) and the TI-99/4A, among others which never gained big ground.  The TRS-80 and CoCos earned a place in this mess, as well.  An MSX machine would have been yet another left in the dust.

[Tuxon86]

10 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

I reckon it would have been difficult for an MSX platform to be widely successful in the US.  IBM had a stranglehold on business environments, and what made Compaq and clones successful was peoples' desire to work with at home what they had at work, and to do so inexpensively.  Then Jack Tramiel cannot be disregarded, as he waged an all-out war on the home computer market to gain dominance.  Between the Atari 400/800, VIC-20 then the Commodore 64, and the Apple II, the 8-bit home computer market was all but tied up, with many contenders like the ColecoVision Adam (I never realized how big that actually was) and the TI-99/4A, among others which never gained big ground.  The TRS-80 and CoCos earned a place in this mess, as well.  An MSX machine would have been yet another left in the dust.

Yes the North American market was crowded already. But I still think we missed out on having at least one z80 based system back in the day, one well supported that is. 

[+OLD CS1]

5 hours ago, Tuxon86 said:

Yes the North American market was crowded already. But I still think we missed out on having at least one z80 based system back in the day, one well supported that is. 

Sure, we missed out, but "for better or worse?" is the real question.

[carlsson]

MSX1 probably was a little underwhelming when it was specified in the summer of 1983, using off the shelve components already available in many other computers/consoles. Sure, it opened up for a wide market in Japan where lots of hardware makers could contribute with their own variants of the machine, while maintaining cross compatibility. Yet in order to make an impact in America, I think it would have needed to be more of the next generation computer. Even in Europe its impact varied greatly, and probably was far from #1 on any market. It fared quite well in the Netherlands, possibly in Germany, Spain, Italy, France. It saw some impact here in Sweden, but only as the fourth largest home computer brand or something like that.

 

MSX2 did improve the graphics in particular, but by 1986 even more of the consumers had moved to some sort of 16-bit computers, whether it was an IBM PC (compatible), Mac, Atari ST or Amiga.

 

That said, I see two excellent vectors for introducing MSX in the USA by late 1983 or early 1984: The Coleco ADAM, which I understand was designed in order to utilize an existing console, could just as well have been made fully MSX compatible with an AY sound chip instead of the SN variety, and of course real floppy drives instead of high speed tapes. Then we have the sorry story of Mattel Aquarius. Instead of listening to Radofin, if Mattel had looked into Japan they may have found a deal with e.g. Sord who already had their M5 home computer available and were looking to introduce it in the US under the brand name Socius. It would have been a more capable hardware, and paved the way for Mattel's own MSX computers in 1984. Now perhaps I'm overestimating the impact Mattel had, in particular as they sold off the Intelliviison business sometime around then, but I really think it could have worked out. There's also Sega, who decided to make their own console & computer that is nearly identical to Colecovision/ADAM but for some reason refrained from jumping onto the MSX bandwagon, who may have been interested if a major US company had shown interest in cooperation.

[Tuxon86]

Well, I didn't get the MSX2 finally... That one was sniped from me at the last minute and, in anycase, went for more than what I was ready to pay for one in the end. On the flip side, I may've scored a C64G (German made C64 breadbin with white keyboard). Will see if it's actually one of those and not just a good old Franken64 with bits and parts from different computers. I only paid $45Cdn for it. Is it me or has the release of all these new emulation boxes bring the price of actual C64 down to a more reasonable level lately?