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Will the 2600 still be collected in 20 years?


HatefulGravey

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On 10/23/2022 at 10:30 PM, buick said:

Not to mention how much lower the bar for entry is to get into this hobby! It's a lot easier to keep a box of old plastic electronics around than it is to maintain a 100 year old automobile.

Mmm yes. Lower bar, more artful and colorful. More practical. And far easier to maintain and clean and enjoy overall.

 

Classic car collecting is "too big" for my small mind. Boring even. All it is is a means to an end. Transportation to get you from here to there. Sometimes gussied up when corporate discipline is lax, when weird things leak out of the factory. They're all the same. 4 wheels and an engine.

 

Videogames OTH are and open canvas, an endless variety.

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On 10/16/2022 at 2:59 PM, HatefulGravey said:

 

So to the other collectors in the world: do you ever wonder about these things? Do you think there will still be interest in these older games in another 20+ years at all? 

20 years? Definitely... 

 

50 to 100+ years? Probably not...

 

People are bored and like to buy/collect stuff. Some people stop, some people come back, some people start late but as long as people who grew up with it are alive, it will be collected. Will it be worth the same? Thats up for debate but once we start dying off I doubt 90% of it will be (just the really rare unique stuff)

 

50 years from now it will likely still hold value and be historically significant...but people won't be fighting over most of it or investing in most of it...basically it will never be like "rare coins' if that's what you mean :) 

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One other thing to consider. I predict in 20 years time grown adults, unfortunately, will have less of an ability, as far as time and resources, to enjoy hobbies such as retro gaming. Also I find that the younger generation (Gen Z) does not appreciate vintage items from the time before their birth, as generations before them have. For example, us kids growing up in the 1980s loved classic car shows, classic rock records, classic tv shows from the 60's,50's. I dont see the younger generation of today showing any interest in a classic Atari 2600 or Nintendo.

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On 11/2/2022 at 12:55 PM, Flyindrew said:

One other thing to consider. I predict in 20 years time grown adults, unfortunately, will have less of an ability, as far as time and resources, to enjoy hobbies such as retro gaming. Also I find that the younger generation (Gen Z) does not appreciate vintage items from the time before their birth, as generations before them have. For example, us kids growing up in the 1980s loved classic car shows, classic rock records, classic tv shows from the 60's,50's. I dont see the younger generation of today showing any interest in a classic Atari 2600 or Nintendo.

Some of them do if they grew up with it like my kids.  My kids have grown up with the current consoles of there day, but also had a nice assortment of retro consoles. There favorite console is still the 2600 and we have a great time playing together.  They especially like the newer Homebrew games.  

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To focus the question, we must ask a question about nostalgia. For how long will the oldsters have the warm fuzzy feelings for these old 1st gen cartridge games. I believe sentimentality will always be there for your original hardware. But not too sure about the yearning for those past times.

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On 11/2/2022 at 1:55 PM, Flyindrew said:

Also I find that the younger generation (Gen Z) does not appreciate vintage items from the time before their birth, as generations before them have. For example, us kids growing up in the 1980s loved classic car shows, classic rock records, classic tv shows from the 60's,50's. I dont see the younger generation of today showing any interest in a classic Atari 2600 or Nintendo.

In the 70s and 80s our entertainment choices were limited and we watched and listened to what was available (after school TV reruns and hand-me-down albums).  Hell, in the 70s I went to the public library every week to check out books.  Not because I was smart or because my parents made me, I did it because there was nothing else to do.  I can't imagine being a kid today with the options to be entertained 24/7.

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Interest in Atari in particular is already waning as the generation that grew up with them already rebought played and put away all their nostalgic games. Then the NES had it's nostalgic limelight, and now we're seeing N64 and PS1 games become the hot new nostalgia thing. Even games from my childhood [ie gamecube] are skyrocketing in price due to demand from late 20-early 30 somethings yearning for the good ol days. (I'm sure my simple childhood collection of GC games has tripled my net worth on it's own lately...Don't tell the IRS.)

 

As for non-nostalgia reasoned collecting, I think retro collecting will always be alive and well, but as for Atari in particular, I dunno. Some comparisons can be made to comic book collecting or classic car "collecting" but not really IMO. Someone's interest in say, 30's Superman or a 50's Chevorlet is more comparible to NES collecting.

 

Atari collecting would be something like, those pre-Superhero cowboy and drama comics or a Model-T. There will always be people wanting those for their historic value, but collectors who want the cool flashy stuff won't be clamoring for those. I say all this as quite an outlier myself, I'm only 26 but my exposure to things like the Flashback 1 and 2 sparked my interest in Atari. It's heavily historical but I do genuinely like the games.

 

Not sure if this came out totally coherent but it's my two cents.

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51 minutes ago, Astro Rabby said:

Interest in Atari in particular is already waning as the generation that grew up with them already rebought played and put away all their nostalgic games. Then the NES had it's nostalgic limelight, and now we're seeing N64 and PS1 games become the hot new nostalgia thing.

[..]

Not sure if this came out totally coherent but it's my two cents.

That makes sense. Consider my personal timeline. As a videogame veteran nowadays, but having starting out with Apple II and VCS and redLED/blueVFD games, I can tell you very confidently it's mainly about the nostalgia.

 

I got the VCS on zero-day and played it through the early-80's up to the crash.Then I kinda sorta let my collection of around 1000 carts rot and disband itself. Cars, girls, school, jobs, those sorts of thing were more important.

 

In the late 90's emulation came on the scene and I started following it. In the early 2000's it got good enough and nostalgia started forming in my head and I built up a virtual1 collection. Arcades and early cartridge systems. All on one PC. Nowadays it's a small form factor PC. Elegant. It's been a centerpiece of reminiscing about the good times. All the stuff I had as a kid, now presented to me in a highly convenient format.

 

Now present day 2022/2023 the nostalgia pull is finally losing its grip. Fading. No longer need to play the early stuff on a weekly basis. And even less is the desire to re-acquire early hardware. The early hardware like PC & Apple II that I retained will likely remain with me.

 

If I was forced to only play on original hardware I would not go through the trouble of getting or maintaining it all. It just wouldn't happen. In that way emulators keep the scene going for me; with their convenience. With their ability to set up and shut down a gaming session nearly instantly. It's more or less like having come full-circle many times over. A-round'n'round we went!

 

The next arena for me may be 90's DOS gaming. As that's what followed the 80's and 8-bits and arcades. Would I spend money on replacement hardware? No. I still have my vintage PC stuff. And then there's DosBox - which actually runs a lot of stuff so much better than period hardware.

 

So yes! There's a sliding window happening.

 

1- Many may poopoo the idea of a virtual collection. But it is the most practical way to have a hassle-free, trouble-free, convenient, and reliable, experience. It's low-maintenance. Something that's lost on a lot of folks. Eliminates ebay frustration. Eliminates time wasted at swap meets and garage sales and thrift stores. Keeps the spousal unit from complaining about space. All that and more.

Edited by Keatah
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53 minutes ago, Astro Rabby said:

As for non-nostalgia reasoned collecting, I think retro collecting will always be alive and well, but as for Atari in particular, I dunno.

I think it will be around for a while. It's like anything else collectible. There's many carts. Many aspects to the hobby. It appeals to innate hunter-gather instincts. All that mumbo-jumbo.

 

But non-nostalgia means "sentimental" to me. The exact original stuff from childhood. Not replacements. Not reproductions. Not ebay purchases. It be like finding threads of the 2" thick blue shag carpeting caught in a book. Or in a crevice of a console. The console with a scratch in the side because you bashed your stick into it. That's the real deal.

 

Nostalgia can be fulfilled via those ebay purchases, those replacements, those reproductions. Sentimentality cannot.

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6 minutes ago, Keatah said:

I think it will be around for a while. It's like anything else collectible. There's many carts. Many aspects to the hobby. It appeals to innate hunter-gather instincts. All that mumbo-jumbo.

 

But non-nostalgia means "sentimental" to me. The exact original stuff from childhood. Not replacements. Not reproductions. Not ebay purchases. It be like finding threads of the 2" thick blue shag carpeting caught in a book. Or in a crevice of a console. The console with a scratch in the side because you bashed your stick into it. That's the real deal.

 

Nostalgia can be fulfilled via those ebay purchases, those replacements, those reproductions. Sentimentality cannot.

Hey I feel ya there 100%. I'd never give up my Gamecube. Had it since I was 9, gonna have it till it dies. Playing a different gamecube or even an emulator if it's something I had in the day just feels off in some way. Though with the prices I mentioned some games are gonna be emulator only BUT that's the next best thing. Especially with how CRISP Dolphin is but that's another topic.

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On 11/3/2022 at 4:55 AM, Flyindrew said:

One other thing to consider. I predict in 20 years time grown adults, unfortunately, will have less of an ability, as far as time and resources, to enjoy hobbies such as retro gaming. Also I find that the younger generation (Gen Z) does not appreciate vintage items from the time before their birth, as generations before them have. For example, us kids growing up in the 1980s loved classic car shows, classic rock records, classic tv shows from the 60's,50's. I dont see the younger generation of today showing any interest in a classic Atari 2600 or Nintendo.

Many people are still at least somewhat interested in old games. Maybe not enough to spend 100$'s on e-waste that can be emulated on any old brick, but the interest will always be there. Especially old Nintendo stuff, plenty of younger people continue to play the original mario, zelda, castlevania etc. The sentiment that "kids these days just don't care about the classics" is wrong and will always be wrong.
Also, in 20 years, even if no one else is buying old atari stuff, at least I will be :).
t. zoomer

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4 hours ago, randomcat2000 said:

Many people are still at least somewhat interested in old games. Maybe not enough to spend 100$'s on e-waste that can be emulated on any old brick, but the interest will always be there. Especially old Nintendo stuff, plenty of younger people continue to play the original mario, zelda, castlevania etc. The sentiment that "kids these days just don't care about the classics" is wrong and will always be wrong.
Also, in 20 years, even if no one else is buying old atari stuff, at least I will be :).
t. zoomer

Nintendo's VC/NSO and Sega in general do a good job of keeping most of their classics alive, so a lot of kids will at least try them.

But I've seen so many people, at least online refuse to try anything from before the PS4. Like they refuse to play a game that WASN'T made by a huge overworked, underpaid team adding unnecessary and undetectable detail to the graphics.

 

I'm lucky I stumbled upon that GBA port of Donkey Kong and played a Flashback 1 at a friends house. Those were certainly formulative times.

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There will always be a market but it will dwindle.  I'm in my almost mid 30's and most my age I know have no interest in Atari.  There will still be people curious but most my age are into Nintendo 64, PS1 etc because we grew up with it.  My memories at 8 years old are playing Banjo Kazooie and Space Station Silicon Valley and I knew nothing about Atari beyond it was video games before Nintendo.  Then I have co workers who don't care about those systems and their memory at 8 was playing Wii Sports etc so their nostalgic system is that and the 360 etc.

 

Again there will be people who love older stuff and will go looking for it but it will slowly dwindle.  I'm sure there are millennials who collect 8 track tapes but I bet the majority of people into it were kids and teens when they were current etc.

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In my experience, there's very little out there that doesn't have some kind of collectors scene.  I'm sure the scene around the 2600 will shrink but I see no reason why it would die out entirely - even if it's just high-end collectors, curators and museums a hundred years from now.  History and historicity is always valuable. :)

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There's no shortage of talent and materials to make a 100% compatible VCS replacement. The only issue is recognizing the need to do it.

 

FPGA isn't an option here. Because it takes time to load the bitstream. that precludes power-on options or tricks, like the SpaceInvaders double-shot. Or even just the instant-on nature of the console itself. Gone. And every FPGA implementation I've seen so far doesn't interact with Paddles or all cartridge styles correctly. Nor do they talk to the DB9 ports bi-directionally with the right voltage levels. Those features I just mentioned are simply not done because the perceived need is nil.

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On 11/5/2022 at 6:49 AM, Keatah said:

To focus the question, we must ask a question about nostalgia. For how long will the oldsters have the warm fuzzy feelings for these old 1st gen cartridge games. I believe sentimentality will always be there for your original hardware. But not too sure about the yearning for those past times.

I agree with this take. It's already a pain in the ass to use a 1970s system with a 2020s screen, and even when you get it working, it doesn't look as nice as an old CRT, which is bulky and increasingly hard to find. 

 

Maybe it will be like 78rpm collections as referenced before. I think it's more like model trains, which seems to be more of a fad that's tied to people of a certain age. 

On 11/5/2022 at 9:14 PM, sramirez2008 said:

This! There is such a thing as too much technology.

So much this. I recently unloaded my Atari cartridge collection and I feel OK about it. I still like to play some of the games, but I don't need the hardware and I certainly don't need the thrill of the collector's hunt. 

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2 hours ago, Keatah said:

There's no shortage of talent and materials to make a 100% compatible VCS replacement. The only issue is recognizing the need to do it.

 

FPGA isn't an option here. Because it takes time to load the bitstream. that precludes power-on options or tricks, like the SpaceInvaders double-shot. Or even just the instant-on nature of the console itself. Gone. And every FPGA implementation I've seen so far doesn't interact with Paddles or all cartridge styles correctly. Nor do they talk to the DB9 ports bi-directionally with the right voltage levels. Those features I just mentioned are simply not done because the perceived need is nil.

 

What about something like the Gizmo or "2600 on a chip" that was used in the Atari Flashback 2 years ago?

 

The ROM carts will still survive after many years, but not the old consoles that have caps that go bad...and please don't say just replace them because not everyone has that skill!

 

That's why a redesigned 2600 clone that plays actual cartridges is the best way to preserve these physical games.  It's either that or forever relying on digital ROM images.

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7 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

What about something like the Gizmo or "2600 on a chip" that was used in the Atari Flashback 2 years ago?

I suppose so. I heard someplace FB2 was exact hardware done up in an ASIC. That'd be a good start as long as it runs Harmony, Quadtari, real paddles, AtariVOX & SaveKey, and the SpaceInvaders double-shot trick, as well as being able to do power-on frying. FPGA's and MiSTer won't pass those.

 

Didn't see anything about Gizmo on google. So can't really say.

 

7 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

The ROM carts will still survive after many years, but not the old consoles that have caps that go bad...and please don't say just replace them because not everyone has that skill!

Fused, Diode, Mask ROMS are projected to last 200 years. UV EPROMS 50'ish, if properly programmed. Flash 20-25'ish. Some Flash is 10-20 years max. At least that's what the datasheets say.

 

As far as recapping, soldering, and electronics repair goes. Yes of course. Required skills and all that. But some brilliant inventor could make a solderless recapping kit. Cut out the old parts. And insert new ones. Using a type of cold solder epoxy paste.

 

I also don't doubt that there will be plenty of home hobbyists willing to lend a hand to do the required work. I do in my part of town. For free or just materials costs.

 

7 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

That's why a redesigned 2600 clone that plays actual cartridges is the best way to preserve these physical games.  It's either that or forever relying on digital ROM images.

Agreed. I wonder which one will win in the end?

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I think the value of many of the games will come down and that there will be a smaller number of collectors.  Many of us are 50+ and is the case with life many of us won't be around in 20 years.  There have been several collectors who have died young.  As we get older the number of us still around will get smaller.

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8 minutes ago, holygrailvideogames.com said:

I think the value of many of the games will come down and that there will be a smaller number of collectors.

Yes. Natural progression. And for whatever it means - there are some games I no longer have an interest in acquiring. Could be a ROM or a physical copy. Though I am more likely to pay for a ROM & PDF than a physical cartridge. Point is

 

8 minutes ago, holygrailvideogames.com said:

  Many of us are 50+ and is the case with life many of us won't be around in 20 years.  There have been several collectors who have died young.  As we get older the number of us still around will get smaller.

That means less nostalgia infections to drive up the price. They say nostalgia is a mental illness. Causes you to do impractical or slightly unreasonable or inappropriate actions in attempt to hold on to or recreate the past. Once the nostalgia dies down (for X system), so will the prices.

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