Did computers have 3rd-person 3D action games before Tomb Raider? (non-fixed camera)

[youxia]

A new user, typical honeypot thread, argument within the first page? I wouldn't be surprised if LeeroyST/JaguarVision/TigerSuperman/etc is back to entertain us once again

[Cebus Capucinis]

This guy must be a riot at parties.

[+OLD CS1]

2 hours ago, youxia said:

LeeroyST

I feel like I remember this guy.  Vaguely.

[roots.genoa]

11 hours ago, MrTrust said:

Full 3-D; no 2D elements at all (aside from HUD)

Non-fixed camera

Third-person perspective

Humanoid character

Action game

Released before October 1996

You forgot it must run on a computer, even though an early 3D game would probably do.

[Xavier Louis Tardy]

Maybe I didn't understand the question correctly, but isn't 'I of the mask' as found on the ZX spectrum a good answer ?

 

[Chinese Cake]

13 hours ago, youxia said:

A new user, typical honeypot thread, argument within the first page? I wouldn't be surprised if LeeroyST/JaguarVision/TigerSuperman/etc is back to entertain us once again

 

So the thread is now derailed because mrtrust started a pointless argument he persisted on based on overanalyzing the OP and misreading and walking back on his own suggestions based on nothing that no other user in this thread did, and I'M being blamed for starting an argument? 

 

It's a curiosity to be sure given this topic is based on a simple premise that almost everyone got right from the start, except the gentlemen who mentioned MIDI maze which is a FP game ad was politely addressed, but somehow I get blamed for an poor argument started by someone else because what? 

 

 

[Chinese Cake]

7 hours ago, Xavier Louis Tardy said:

Maybe I didn't understand the question correctly, but isn't 'I of the mask' as found on the ZX spectrum a good answer ?

 

Incredible game. Spectrum never fails to amaze me with some of it's games despite it's reputation.

 

Saw a video of the game you suggested and you can in the hallway segments, move around and go back and forth with a sophisticated camera system (for the ZX) following the movements. It released in 1985 too, very impressive! Even that three diamond area the camera moves to what choice you make.

 

I originally wasn't considering ZX games because of it's specs, but I keep forgetting the system has it's own 3D games. If you can think of any 3rd-person action games on it feel free to share. It seems I fell for the Commodore propaganda. 

 

Fun fact, the game was supposed to release on the C64 apparently, but was canned. It makes me question whether a C64 version would run as fast even if it did. 

[+5-11under]

7 hours ago, Xavier Louis Tardy said:

Maybe I didn't understand the question correctly, but isn't 'I of the mask' as found on the ZX spectrum a good answer ?

 

I think the idea is that it needs to have a non-fixed camera. I'm guessing the camera view could change relative to the person either automatically, or perhaps could be adjusted manually? I'm not sure the intent here, and I have no idea how it works in Tomb Raider.

 

I'm not sure if the camera moves (relative to the player) in this ZX game (it doesn't move in the very short clip I saw).

 

[Xavier Louis Tardy]

1 minute ago, 5-11under said:

I think the idea is that it needs to have a non-fixed camera. I'm guessing the camera view could change relative to the person either automatically, or perhaps could be adjusted manually? I'm not sure the intent here, and I have no idea how it works in Tomb Raider.

 

I'm not sure if the camera moves (relative to the player) in this ZX game (it doesn't move in the very short clip I saw).

 

Ah, ok, understood.

So, no, this 'I of the mask' game can't be considered as a correct answer to the original OP question.

[Xavier Louis Tardy]

It's probably going to be a 'miss' again from me, but if with 'vehicular' planes are ok, Chocks Away on the Acorn Archimedes offers many different views either from your plane (looking up, down, left, right, behind, each time with inverse zooming possibility ) or from ennemies or from cameras on the ground, with or without active tracking view of your plane.

This game is from 1991 IIRC.

Unfortunately no videos demonstrate that on YT, only the 'normal' view, from your cockpit.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Xavier Louis Tardy

[Chinese Cake]

2 hours ago, Xavier Louis Tardy said:

Ah, ok, understood.

So, no, this 'I of the mask' game can't be considered as a correct answer to the original OP question.

 

Did you read my response to you above regarding that game?

2 hours ago, 5-11under said:

I think the idea is that it needs to have a non-fixed camera. I'm guessing the camera view could change relative to the person either automatically, or perhaps could be adjusted manually? I'm not sure the intent here, and I have no idea how it works in Tomb Raider.

 

I'm not sure if the camera moves (relative to the player) in this ZX game (it doesn't move in the very short clip I saw).

 

 

There's no action in the game but if you watch starting at 1:15 you can see that you can move around in the hallways segments, including in all directions back and forth. You can even go up to the walls, and the camera follows the character throughout. 

 

2 hours ago, Xavier Louis Tardy said:

It's probably going to be a 'miss' again from me, but if with 'vehicular' planes are ok, Chocks Away on the Acorn Archimedes offers many different views either from your plane (looking up, down, left, right, behind, each time with inverse zooming possibility ) or from ennemies or from cameras on the ground, with or without active tracking view of your plane.

This game is from 1991 IIRC.

Unfortunately no videos demonstrate that on YT, only the 'normal' view, from your cockpit.

 

I believe this is the game you are referring to starting at 46 seconds in?

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Chinese Cake

[roots.genoa]

A similar example is this, from 1991 as well:

 

You can switch between first person and third person with a smooth transition. Actually that game allowed several companies to counter SEGA who wanted to patent-troll the whole industry, claiming they invented the feature of changing cameras in 3D games with Virtua Racing (1992).

[Chinese Cake]

39 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Actually that game allowed several companies to counter SEGA who wanted to patent-troll the whole industry, claiming they invented the feature of changing cameras in 3D games with Virtua Racing (1992).

 

That patent case always baffled me. They had a problem finding a game to challenge Sega's patent despite Amiga/ST/DOS having games before VR that had a change camera button. You would think Atari would have known about previous games to avoid paying. At least on the Japanese end they have an excuse since they would be more into MS, sharp, and NEC computers, but the western companies complying with royalties never made sense to me. 

 

Speaking of which it appears the game you linked to was released for Sharp and NEC PC98, looks impressive. Reminds me of the original arcade game. 

[Xavier Louis Tardy]

11 hours ago, Chinese Cake said:

 

Did you read my response to you above regarding that game?

 

There's no action in the game but if you watch starting at 1:15 you can see that you can move around in the hallways segments, including in all directions back and forth. You can even go up to the walls, and the camera follows the character throughout. 

 

 

I believe this is the game you are referring to starting at 46 seconds in?

 

 

 

Yes, but no demonstrations of the possible usage of the cameras.

 

There's a video with better quality here, and it shows the tracking cameras in use :

 

 

Note that the author of the video is wrong : the game runs on any Archie ( in 1990 the ARM250 12 Mhz Archies don't exist yet ).

A really great game, great gameplay, lots of missions, lots of different ennemies.

Coded by a single coder. A gem on the Archie, only available on the 32 bit Acorns, a true 'must have', much more than Zarch.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Xavier Louis Tardy

[Chinese Cake]

8 hours ago, Xavier Louis Tardy said:

Yes, but no demonstrations of the possible usage of the cameras.

 

There's a video with better quality here, and it shows the tracking cameras in use :

 

Very nice, looks like the camera starts to move dynamically in one of those cameras impressive for a game that can run on  basic archie.

 

9 hours ago, Xavier Louis Tardy said:

Coded by a single coder. A gem on the Archie, only available on the 32 bit Acorns, a true 'must have', much more than Zarch.

Zarch waspraised  for it's speed and graphic clarity (and colors), but I also remember it being hard to control and play.