410 stopped working suddenly

[ianoid]

My 410 that I refurbished with new belts decided to stop working. I was loading cassettes with mixed results (was assuming that some of the cassettes have issues as some loaded), but then the unit just stopped powering up.

 

I tested disk drive loading with the 800xl I am using and that works just fine, so I don't think it's the computer. 

 

Any suggestions where to start for getting this 410 working?

[TGB1718]

If it's powered by the SIO port, with the 8 bit powered on, can you Fast Forward/Rewind, you should be able to do that if it's getting power.

 

Again if it's powered by the SIO port 5VDC, disk drives don't use that line, so worth

checking if it's getting power in the first place.

 

If it is then there's a switch that is activated in the 410 when any key is pressed to provide power, that

would be the next thing to check.

 

Also check the cable, again the 5VDC line and the 0V line, if either is broken the motor will not run.

 

[Rybags]

410 is externally powered.  You should be able to Rew/FF whether or not it's connected to a computer.

Next thing would be to check the wall-wart with a multimeter.

Mine uses 6V DC and fairly sure it uses a plug similar to a mono audio plug.

So it should be fairly easy to find a substitute if one is needed, you'd just need to ensure it puts out enough Amps.

[TGB1718]

26 minutes ago, Rybags said:

410 is externally powered.

Forgot the 410 is externally powered, also I think some had an internal power supply (watch your fingers if it's one of those ⚠️)

[Mclaneinc]

Yup, 6V DC via a 3.5mm mono plug... (think it's centre pin positive (think))

[BillC]

6 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

Forgot the 410 is externally powered, also I think some had an internal power supply (watch your fingers if it's one of those ⚠️)

I'm fairly sure most 410s are 120VAC powered, with transformer/rectifiers/regulator circuity inside, but there is the 410P which uses an external 6VDC power supply

[TGB1718]

25 minutes ago, BillC said:

but there is the 410P which uses an external 6VDC power supply

I have a really old original 410 (the one with the carry handle  ), it's powered from a jack

in the side of the 800 power supply.

[BillC]

2 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

I have a really old original 410 (the one with the carry handle  ), it's powered from a jack

in the side of the 800 power supply.

I have one of the original Bigston based 410 with the carry handle as well, though it has been packed away for years.

I received it with a 400 for Christmas 1980 which came with the CO14319 15.3VA power supply, IIRC the 410 had an internal 120VAC power supply.

That version of the 800 power supply/410 tape drive was likely specific to 240VAC regions.

[mimo]

13 hours ago, TGB1718 said:

I have a really old original 410 (the one with the carry handle  ), it's powered from a jack

in the side of the 800 power supply.

Thats a nice 410!
Never seen one of those in the UK.
Our 400 had the same transformer and it worked with the later 410

[TGB1718]

11 hours ago, BillC said:

That version of the 800 power supply/410 tape drive was likely specific to 240VAC regions.

Although 110VAC is a bit of a "tickle" maybe the thought of 240VAC inside one of those

was maybe a bit much ☠️ 

[ianoid]

The 410s in the US get power directly from the wall, from an internal power adapter. For the purposes of all forms of testing, does the 410 need to be plugged into a powered on computer (in this case, my 800xl)? 

 

The issue appears to be that the motor does not power on. I get 6v coming in and out of the motor (pink and white wires) when the unit is plugged in, but the motor doesn't ff/rw or (when plugged into the computer) play when the cassette keys (ff/rw/play) are engaged. 

 

Also, I get 5v out of the white and brown wires and 2-3v out of the red wire coming from the SIO cable (when powered on and attempting to load a cassette), so I suspect it's not an absence of 5v coming from the SIO port on the 800xl.

 

Just to confirm, should the black wire be ground on this board?

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by ianoid
more information

[ianoid]

OK, what is currently happening is that the motor works intermittently. It seems to require a light smack to get it to activate. Now I'm just getting 140/143 loading errors on some of my cassettes, even ones that are known good. I have cleaned the head with isopropyl, and a while back did rubber renew on the wheel. Could it be alignment?

 

Most of the cassettes I'm testing are APX and there are some Atari service announcements about old cassettes not loading on the new version of the 410. 

 

Note that sometimes cassettes do load. It sucks because I always found these drives to more reliably load compared to systems that have non-proprietary tape drives like TRS-80 or Apple II. 

 

Also, might need a test tone tape, can anyone suggest one?

[TGB1718]

11 hours ago, ianoid said:

OK, what is currently happening is that the motor works intermittently. It seems to require a light smack to get it to activate

That does suggest that one of the switches is not making contact, can't remember, but is one of the switches

a long slide switch, if so, that could be the culprit, maybe spray some cleaner into it and activate the switch

a few times by pressing the play/FF/Rew buttons to hopefully clean the contacts.

[BillC]

On 11/1/2022 at 1:53 PM, ianoid said:

The 410s in the US get power directly from the wall, from an internal power adapter. For the purposes of all forms of testing, does the 410 need to be plugged into a powered on computer (in this case, my 800xl)? 

Not all US/Canadian 410 tape drives have an internal power supply, I have a 410P model which uses an external power supply.

The 410 also requires the MOTOR signal on SIO for PLAY/RECORD to work, FF/REWIND don't require this signal.

[+bf2k+]

On 10/25/2022 at 1:55 PM, BillC said:

I'm fairly sure most 410s are 120VAC powered, with transformer/rectifiers/regulator circuity inside, but there is the 410P which uses an external 6VDC power supply

Mine was definitely powered with 120v AC.  No wall wart...