No output after installing Orange Peel Mod

[stushug]

I just installed the orange peel mod on my Intellivision 2609. Many years ago, I installed an led to show when the unit is on. When I turned it on the first time after the mod, the led came on for a split second and went out. I checked the positive feed to the lamp and there is no current. The weird thing is, if I connect via the RF cable on channel 3, there is the usual static until I turn on the console, but the screen turns black at power up. I also get the black screen using the RCA jacks, but I get a slight flutter at power up there too. The TV displays the usual "weak or no signal" message. That tells me that something is still on somewhere. For the mod, I installed the s-video connector, the red, white and yellow RCA jacks and the pallet switch to  give myself options. I also installed the QSB that mounts to the color chip (U10). I'm 99% sure that all of my wiring was done following the directions exactly as they were written. I'm not sure what to check first.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by stushug

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Power.... you always start at power. First remove the power and ground off the OP board to remove it from the mix. Then check the power on the power supply board side and then again at the power ribbon cable to the Intellivision. Then you can try to reattach +5 and gnd to the OP board and verify you are getting +5 to the OP board and again, double check everything on your connections since it is possible to mount though QSBs onto the wrong pins if you forget about everything being turned 180 when looking at the bottom of the PCB.

[stushug]

10 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Power.... you always start at power. First remove the power and ground off the OP board to remove it from the mix. Then check the power on the power supply board side and then again at the power ribbon cable to the Intellivision. Then you can try to reattach +5 and gnd to the OP board and verify you are getting +5 to the OP board and again, double check everything on your connections since it is possible to mount though QSBs onto the wrong pins if you forget about everything being turned 180 when looking at the bottom of the PCB.

I actually did the install while watching your video. It was a great help! I will post what I find after re-checking my connections.

[stushug]

The first problem is in the power board. Below are the results of my tests at the various Test Points (TP), with TP1 being the ground. I'm thinking C3 has failed, among other possibilities. I'll order some caps today.

 

           Spec from manual                           Actual reading

TP2          +5vdc                                              +5.07

 

TP3          +12vdc                                            +11.97

 

TP4          +16vdc                                               0

 

TP5           -2.1vdc                                           -2.09

 

TP6           +5.65vdc                                        +12.12

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by stushug

[walldog1]

What is TP-6 loaded read? That means with ribbon cable and molex 2 pin connector hooked up?

3 hours ago, stushug said:

TP6           +5.65vdc                                        +12.12

This is a fine reading for unloaded. Read the instructions and they tell you you to test for both! This will help with diagnosis.

 

Also, show some pictures of your install and check for accidental solder bridges.

[stushug]

1 hour ago, walldog1 said:

What is TP-6 loaded read? That means with ribbon cable and molex 2 pin connector hooked up?

This is a fine reading for unloaded. Read the instructions and they tell you you to test for both! This will help with diagnosis.

 

Also, show some pictures of your install and check for accidental solder bridges.

Testing results with ribbon cable and molex connector hooked up:

TP6 is now 5.85(SPEC is 5.65)            TP4 is now 19.25(SPEC is 16)

[walldog1]

9 minutes ago, stushug said:

Testing results with ribbon cable and molex connector hooked up:

TP6 is now 5.85(SPEC is 5.65)            TP4 is now 19.25(SPEC is 16)

Those readings are fine allowing for tolerances. However, replace that ribbon wire cable!!!! When de-laminated like that, you will never keep a constant voltage supply. And, did you remember to bridge the "F" pad on backside of OP board input?

 

Also, look closely at your solder joint for clock to the resistor. I once had a small unseen bridge there once. Now, I lift up that leg of the resistor up some from PCB so I don't accidentally bridge something that should not be. Just a suggestion.

 

But that ribbon wire has to go! CrossBow will agree with that suggestion. Hopefully that solves your problem!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

12 minutes ago, walldog1 said:

Those readings are fine allowing for tolerances. However, replace that ribbon wire cable!!!! When de-laminated like that, you will never keep a constant voltage supply. And, did you remember to bridge the "F" pad on backside of OP board input?

 

Also, look closely at your solder joint for clock to the resistor. I once had a small unseen bridge there once. Now, I lift up that leg of the resistor up some from PCB so I don't accidentally bridge something that should not be. Just a suggestion.

 

But that ribbon wire has to go! CrossBow will agree with that suggestion. Hopefully that solves your problem!

Now that you have checked the power on the power supply board, I would removed the +5 and gnd off the OP board to essentially disable it from the mix for the time being. Check and verify the power on the main logic board and see if it it is working on RF still before proceeding further.

 

Yeah the ribbon cable needs to put out to pasture and replaced or something else done. The main issue with them being delaminated like that is the internal traces have the ability to short against each other and that would cause bad things to happen. I would also verify that none of the video signal input connections to the pads are shorted. It is hard to tell with how shiny the left over flux around the joints are. 

[walldog1]

13 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I would also verify that none of the video signal input connections to the pads are shorted. It is hard to tell with how shiny the left over flux around the joints are. 

I was going to suggest that as well. Easy to do, put your DVM on continuity, put probes into the vias above the pads where you soldered. Check the vias on both sides and work across the input side of OP board. There should be no continuity anywhere. I also do the same on output side just to make sure all is fine.

[stushug]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Now that you have checked the power on the power supply board, I would removed the +5 and gnd off the OP board to essentially disable it from the mix for the time being. Check and verify the power on the main logic board and see if it it is working on RF still before proceeding further.

 

Yeah the ribbon cable needs to put out to pasture and replaced or something else done. The main issue with them being delaminated like that is the internal traces have the ability to short against each other and that would cause bad things to happen. I would also verify that none of the video signal input connections to the pads are shorted. It is hard to tell with how shiny the left over flux around the joints are. 

Where can I source a new ribbon? I knew mine was bad, but I have no idea to get a replacement. I'm not sure about which is the OP board. I'm assuming it's the largest board from the mod kit. If I'm right, then no, I didn't bridge the "F" pad. I just looked at the "F" pad and it looks like it's already bridged. Am I correct? Do you mention that in your video? It looks like it is bridged, though.

Edited October 27, 2022 by stushug

[stushug]

I removed the power and ground from the OP and tried the RF output on channel 3. As before, there is the usual static until I turn on the console. Once on the screen goes black and I get the "weak or no signal" message from the tv. If I wiggle the rca connector at the modulator, I do get some squigly lines momentarily.

[walldog1]

CrossBow has a connection for an actual ribbon wire. I'm sure he will chime in. Many of us use some thing like this from eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/294059258133?var=592747748594

 

I order the 6 wire version only because I use the 6th wire as another ground. With my automotive background, you can't have too many grounds! And this console has 5 different DCV supplies and only one tiny ground in the ribbon wire for return path to DC PS Board. On DC PS board, just drill one more hole 2.54mm from outer hole, turn board over and scrape away green coating over ground and solder in their 6 pin connector. EASY!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I didn't mention the F pad in the video because as you just stated, it is already bridged on the ones that Crayon has been selling for sometime now and it was also already soldered on the one I did in the video. His earlier version of the OP boards did not have that pad soldered I don't believe and also had the Col Sel and EXT pads reversed. I've never touched that soldered jumper on the F pad and never had any issues on the ones I've installed now which is quite a few.

 

Another thought on this, is do you remember the main board taking any strong hits while you were working on it? It is possible to actually break the crystal inside the can and it is also possible for the C2 variable cap to get bumped while working on it. I had one Intellivision with the black screen condition and once I tweaked that variable cap at C2 a bit, it came back up. That cap is actually used to adjust the clock signal frequency. 

 

As for replacement ribbons, I'm not sure of a current source online, but I have a local source that has these. They are 6 wire ribbon vs 5 and they are a little longer than the originals, but I just carefully cut one of the extras off on the side and use them after that. You could also just use standard ribbon cable and a connector assembly that would be more reliable over time vs these older mylar ribbon cables.

 

[walldog1]

9 minutes ago, stushug said:

If I wiggle the rca connector at the modulator, I do get some squigly lines momentarily.

Another common problem with the RF Mod. I always polish with Scotchbrite (not just clean with ISO) And check the connections inside the RF Mod case with top lid off. Quite often the solder holding RCA Jack to case breaks and allows whole thing to turn. This can short out the attached resistor to RCA jack or some other issue like pushing something against the copper coils.

 

Also, inside the RCA jack, the connection gets worn/loose. Easily rectified with a little solder.

Edited October 27, 2022 by walldog1

[walldog1]

CrossBow & myself could give you all kinds of things to check. First things first. Replace ribbon cable. If still having problems, we'll go from there.

 

I think you had another post about this console? My last question is this. Did this console work through the RF Mod output before modding it?

[stushug]

3 minutes ago, walldog1 said:

CrossBow & myself could give you all kinds of things to check. First things first. Replace ribbon cable. If still having problems, we'll go from there.

 

I think you had another post about this console? My last question is this. Did this console work through the RF Mod output before modding it?

Yes it worked via RF until I installed on the mod.

Edited October 27, 2022 by stushug

[walldog1]

3 minutes ago, stushug said:

Yes it worked via RF until I installed on the mod.

Thank you, that will help me and others as discussion goes on.

[stushug]

I just replaced the ribbon cable with some old IDE cable I found and I have the same results.

[walldog1]

41 minutes ago, stushug said:

I just replaced the ribbon cable with some old IDE cable I found and I have the same results.

Try to get your old RF Mod signal output again. That is where I would start. Remove all input wires to your OP Mod Board.

 

Sometimes just handling these 45 year PCB can bring out a problem that would have reared it's ugly head in the near future anyway. I rebuild a lot of these. They work to some extent before I rebuild them, then black screen. Always a different problem so I can't point you in any particular direction. Get your magnifying glass out, and look everything over carefully for an unintentional problem you might have caused while working on the Mod install. Tracings that got scratched, weak solder joints, etc.

 

Do you own an DSO? Could be very helpful to check 5 TP's on Logic Board.

 

2 hours ago, stushug said:

If I wiggle the rca connector at the modulator, I do get some squigly lines momentarily.

Look into this as mentioned above.

Edited October 27, 2022 by walldog1

[stushug]

2 hours ago, walldog1 said:

Another common problem with the RF Mod. I always polish with Scotchbrite (not just clean with ISO) And check the connections inside the RF Mod case with top lid off. Quite often the solder holding RCA Jack to case breaks and allows whole thing to turn. This can short out the attached resistor to RCA jack or some other issue like pushing something against the copper coils.

 

Also, inside the RCA jack, the connection gets worn/loose. Easily rectified with a little solder.

I did check the RF Mod and I didn't see anything loose or broken. I did polish the connector as suggested. No change.

47 minutes ago, walldog1 said:

Try to get your old RF Mod signal output again. That is where I would start. Remove all input wires to your OP Mod Board.

 

Sometimes just handling these 45 year PCB can bring out a problem that would have reared it's ugly head in the near future anyway. I rebuild a lot of these. They work to some extent before I rebuild them, then black screen. Always a different problem so I can't point you in any particular direction. Get your magnifying glass out, and look everything over carefully for an unintentional problem you might have caused while working on the Mod install. Tracings that got scratched, weak solder joints, etc.

 

Do you own an DSO? Could be very helpful to check 5 TP's on Logic Board.

 

Look into this as mentioned above.

I will go over everything and look for the things you've mentioned. Thanks. I assume you mean Digital storage oscilloscope. No I don't have one.

Edited October 27, 2022 by stushug

[stushug]

Actually I do own a Hitachi V-212 oscilloscope. Here's a pic of one just like it. Problem is, I'm a complete noob on using it.

Edited October 28, 2022 by stushug

[walldog1]

The Main repair manual for the Intellivision 2609 has 5 Test Points. Attach one probe to Test Point, and the attached alligator clip to ground. The electrical schematic shows where the test points are and the wave form you should see.

 

I hope you have the manual for your Hitachi, or can download the manual (be careful downloading older manuals, use a reputable website or you may get a virus). That manual will give you enough info to show you how to compensate the probe, select channel frequency and set voltage range. Or just play around and practice by checking Logic Board clock frequency. Set to 1VDC per division, frequency is 3.579545 MHz so adjust your knob for this range. Hook probe to Pin 10 of game cartridge or to that resistor you took clock freq from, or straight from color chip (I forget pin number). It is good to set this anyways.

 

I have faith that you will figure it out. Now I'm going to watch TNF on Prime and cheer on the Bucs!

[stushug]

11 hours ago, walldog1 said:

The Main repair manual for the Intellivision 2609 has 5 Test Points. Attach one probe to Test Point, and the attached alligator clip to ground. The electrical schematic shows where the test points are and the wave form you should see.

 

I hope you have the manual for your Hitachi, or can download the manual (be careful downloading older manuals, use a reputable website or you may get a virus). That manual will give you enough info to show you how to compensate the probe, select channel frequency and set voltage range. Or just play around and practice by checking Logic Board clock frequency. Set to 1VDC per division, frequency is 3.579545 MHz so adjust your knob for this range. Hook probe to Pin 10 of game cartridge or to that resistor you took clock freq from, or straight from color chip (I forget pin number). It is good to set this anyways.

 

I have faith that you will figure it out. Now I'm going to watch TNF on Prime and cheer on the Bucs!

I've been reading through my blurry copy of the manual and it recommends that testing be done with the MTE-201 test cartridge installed. I don't have one. Also, do you know where I can find a clearer copy of the manual? Every one that I've found is the blurry one. Kind of hard to read voltages on the schematic. I did find a good version of the sub-assembly manual though.

Too bad about the Bucs last night, living in Pittsburgh it's hard to see the ravens win against any team.

[walldog1]

1 hour ago, stushug said:

it recommends that testing be done with the MTE-201 test cartridge installed.

I don't recall that for the wave-form test-points that there is a need for the MTE-201. I don't have an MTE-201 either but still can see those wave forms on my DSO. I use an I-Magic game that has an action start screen so as to see the wave forms.

 

Console5 wiki link seems to be the clearest for schematic reading and show which IC Chip pin has what voltages. And as for that old ribbon wire, if a short did occur it could have taken out one of your IC Chips, Zener Diode, or a diode.

 

Did you get a clock frequency output reading and adjust yet with your oscilloscope?

[stushug]

I haven't done the check yet, and I'll be out most of the day today. I will do it ASAP.