No output after installing Orange Peel Mod

[the_crayon_king]

9 hours ago, stushug said:

I haven't done the check yet, and I'll be out most of the day today. I will do it ASAP.

I was recently directed to this thread. I dunno if it has been mentioned but I would check the status of those two transistors that tend to burn out. 

I bought 5 or so of these consoles "as-is" when I was first testing the first revision of the Baked Potato kits., and at least 3 of them would either not get video or briefly get video before dying; and those two transistors were the fault. You can usually diagnose them pretty easily by looking for scorch marks. I'd replace them regardless if they are at fault here because they are ticking time bombs. 

[stushug]

4 minutes ago, the_crayon_king said:

I was recently directed to this thread. I dunno if it has been mentioned but I would check the status of those two transistors that tend to burn out. 

I bought 5 or so of these consoles "as-is" when I was first testing the first revision of the Baked Potato kits., and at least 3 of them would either not get video or briefly get video before dying; and those two transistors were the fault. You can usually diagnose them pretty easily by looking for scorch marks. I'd replace them regardless if they are at fault here because they are ticking time bombs. 

Thanks for the info, but I'm not sure which two transistors you mean. Do you know how they're labeled?

[the_crayon_king]

3 minutes ago, stushug said:

Thanks for the info, but I'm not sure which two transistors you mean. Do you know how they're labeled?

From the listing: "The model 1 should probably have a resistor 12ohm 3 watts (high temp) resistor and 2 transistors (2N3906) replaced. They may burn up and damage the console or kit. (These are not provided)."

 

Pay no attention to the green rectangle. 

 

Those are pretty high failure areas. I was tempted to include the parts in the kit but I figured it would bloat out an already bloated listing. 

[stushug]

I already have the re-cap kit from Console5 on the way, and  I just ordered the transistors and resistor you suggested. Thanks very much!

It seems no project ever stays on track for me, but I'm much too stubborn to give up.

[stushug]

This is an exercise in elimination. I disassembled the on/off switch and cleaned the contacts. They were a bit dirty but not too bad. I did the same with the channel selector switch, it was loose and fairly dirty but it's in perfect shape now. As mentioned earlier, I made myself a temporary new ribbon cable and that is fine. I'm posting a video to show what I get using RF mod on channel 3. Maybe this will shed a bit of light.

 

 

[stushug]

My re-cap kit arrived today. I swapped out all the caps and tested the machine. No improvement. At least now I know it's not the caps. My list of suspects is getting smaller.

[walldog1]

Those 3609 transistors from console 5 are low in quality, or have been in the past. They will work, but.... I always measure Hfe of transistors and quite often find the ones in the board test better than my new Console 5 3906's. So I don't change them in that case. Last person must have "thrown those parts at it" to no avail. I found a good supplier on eBay with much better quality 3906's. I also measure DC PS Caps both for Farads reading and a 24 hour voltage leakage test to know if they are really bad. But if you don't own test equipment, I can see just R&Ring all parts that are prone to fail.

 

Having been an Automotive technician for 25 years, it always amazes me how people will just throw parts at a problem and not really test it out to find problem. Thankfully I don't have to deal with that anymore, especially if I say they need the same parts they just installed as they were sub-par, or they ruined the part installing it. Or they were not even close to changing correct part. I get a kick out of YouTube backyard tutorials on automotive repair work.

 

Yes, you are narrowing down the list of possibilities. All good parts to change. I would still like to see you get a measurement of your clock signal on your scope. Crossbow mentioned the variable Capacitor or crystal having possible issues. I have had the color IC Chip just up and croak on me during an OP Mod install once. Now I always remove Color Chip before soldering the breakout pad. Just a little static electricity can take out a chip. In fact, I'll remove all socketed IC Chips while rebuilding the Logic Board. A good precaution, and you can blow out the sockets and spray some cleaner in them. Plus, you get visual access to a whole lot more solder joints and tracings.

 

Have a good weekend and keep us updated!

[stushug]

 

13 hours ago, walldog1 said:

Those 3609 transistors from console 5 are low in quality, or have been in the past. They will work, but.... I always measure Hfe of transistors and quite often find the ones in the board test better than my new Console 5 3906's. So I don't change them in that case. Last person must have "thrown those parts at it" to no avail. I found a good supplier on eBay with much better quality 3906's. I also measure DC PS Caps both for Farads reading and a 24 hour voltage leakage test to know if they are really bad. But if you don't own test equipment, I can see just R&Ring all parts that are prone to fail.

 

Having been an Automotive technician for 25 years, it always amazes me how people will just throw parts at a problem and not really test it out to find problem. Thankfully I don't have to deal with that anymore, especially if I say they need the same parts they just installed as they were sub-par, or they ruined the part installing it. Or they were not even close to changing correct part. I get a kick out of YouTube backyard tutorials on automotive repair work.

 

Yes, you are narrowing down the list of possibilities. All good parts to change. I would still like to see you get a measurement of your clock signal on your scope. Crossbow mentioned the variable Capacitor or crystal having possible issues. I have had the color IC Chip just up and croak on me during an OP Mod install once. Now I always remove Color Chip before soldering the breakout pad. Just a little static electricity can take out a chip. In fact, I'll remove all socketed IC Chips while rebuilding the Logic Board. A good precaution, and you can blow out the sockets and spray some cleaner in them. Plus, you get visual access to a whole lot more solder joints and tracings.

 

Have a good weekend and keep us updated!

You just taught me something new. I'd never known about Hfe before, so I looked it up. I do have a meter that can test that, so when my transistors arrive I can test them. I didn't get them from Console5, so hopefully I'll get some of better quality. The great thing for me about these projects is I always come out on the other side with lots more knowledge.

Edited October 30, 2022 by stushug

[stushug]

I just removed both transistors and tested them. They both showed 0 hfe. I tested a few of the new ones I received and picked two with the best and closest hfe readings and installed them. I also replaced the 12ohm 3 watt resistor. Turned on the unit and got the same black screen.

[walldog1]

5 minutes ago, stushug said:

They both showed 0 hfe.

I have never seen both Q1 & Q2 totally fried, especially since this unit worked before the Modding process. Something got shorted, most likely when the de-laminated ribbon wire got wiggled around with power.

 

If the -2.15VDC shorted to ground or power, you probably lost all 4 of the IC Chips around those 2 transistors you replaced as I wrote a post about 9 months ago about improper case soldering and how easy it is to accidentally short the -2.15VDC tracing which runs right along edge of Logic Board by the ROM 9503 IC Chip side. I found out that this happening took out all those Chips as they use the -2.15VDC as an input on 1 or more pins on each chip. This may have also damaged some diodes if the ribbon wire shorted. And if 2 other copper tracings shorted besides the -2.15VDC, different damage most likely occurred.

 

My suggestion is to get another working LB as I am afraid too much damage has happened because of that ribbon wire. You will be chasing your tail for quite a long time finding all affected parts. Did you say you have more than one 2609 Console in your possession?

[stushug]

18 minutes ago, walldog1 said:

I have never seen both Q1 & Q2 totally fried, especially since this unit worked before the Modding process. Something got shorted, most likely when the de-laminated ribbon wire got wiggled around with power.

 

If the -2.15VDC shorted to ground or power, you probably lost all 4 of the IC Chips around those 2 transistors you replaced as I wrote a post about 9 months ago about improper case soldering and how easy it is to accidentally short the -2.15VDC tracing which runs right along edge of Logic Board by the ROM 9503 IC Chip side. I found out that this happening took out all those Chips as they use the -2.15VDC as an input on 1 or more pins on each chip. This may have also damaged some diodes if the ribbon wire shorted. And if 2 other copper tracings shorted besides the -2.15VDC, different damage most likely occurred.

 

My suggestion is to get another working LB as I am afraid too much damage has happened because of that ribbon wire. You will be chasing your tail for quite a long time finding all affected parts. Did you say you have more than one 2609 Console in your possession?

If something bad or weird can happen, it will happen to me! I have no other consoles. Do you have any spare LB's? Perhaps you or Crossbow could sell me one. If so, I'd rather send the console to one of you and have the mod installed and board installed into my console (since I've already installed the S-video, RCA jacks and pallet switch) instead of me ruining another board.

Edited October 31, 2022 by stushug

[walldog1]

You did a fine job from what I saw on your pictures. You just did not know about the hazards of a de-laminated ribbon.

 

Yes, I have lots of consoles and parts, I'll go take a look.

 

I am also going to PM you shortly.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I only have some donor boards that have parts stripped off of them. I do have at least 2 fully working spare consoles however that I was able to fix back up and get working this year. Haven't done anything else with them as they are still stock and haven't decided on what to do with them. One of them I may use a parts donor since I haven't any spare controllers for it and it is an SVA unit.

 

[stushug]

6 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I only have some donor boards that have parts stripped off of them. I do have at least 2 fully working spare consoles however that I was able to fix back up and get working this year. Haven't done anything else with them as they are still stock and haven't decided on what to do with them. One of them I may use a parts donor since I haven't any spare controllers for it and it is an SVA unit.

 

I think I have one on the way from walldog1. He is going through it today.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

14 minutes ago, stushug said:

I think I have one on the way from walldog1. He is going through it today.

👍

[stushug]

I ordered this to replace the ribbon cable. Any thoughts? Also the wire I used to install the orange peel mod was 18 gauge and it was a bit too heavy. I also ordered some 20 gauge wire for when I re-do the install.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294059258133?var=592747748594

[+-^CrossBow^-]

38 minutes ago, stushug said:

I ordered this to replace the ribbon cable. Any thoughts? Also the wire I used to install the orange peel mod was 18 gauge and it was a bit too heavy. I also ordered some 20 gauge wire for when I re-do the install.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294059258133?var=592747748594

That should work well for replacing out the ribbon power ribbon from the PSU board to the main logic. Similar to what I've done as I have those JST connectors on hand and ribbon cable.

 

I actually use 26 gauge for most of my signal runs. I use 22 gauge for the power/ground. I have both solid copper and stranded I use in my installs. Typically the power/ground will use the solid copper. I sometimes will use 30 gauge in some spots where it is tightly packed or just need a quick trace jumper made. 

 

I find that my 22gauge is about the largest I can use easily that will still fit into vias without much issue.

 

[stushug]

58 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

That should work well for replacing out the ribbon power ribbon from the PSU board to the main logic. Similar to what I've done as I have those JST connectors on hand and ribbon cable.

 

I actually use 26 gauge for most of my signal runs. I use 22 gauge for the power/ground. I have both solid copper and stranded I use in my installs. Typically the power/ground will use the solid copper. I sometimes will use 30 gauge in some spots where it is tightly packed or just need a quick trace jumper made. 

 

I find that my 22gauge is about the largest I can use easily that will still fit into vias without much issue.

 

I just changed my order to include 22 and 24 gauge, and I ordered something I've been missing for a long time. An ESD proof mat.

[stushug]

Today I finally got a chance to check the frequency of the clock. I found that it was way off. I adjusted it to the correct setting and the unit is working again. Now to re-install the orange peel mod and see what happens.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

On 11/6/2022 at 4:28 PM, stushug said:

Today I finally got a chance to check the frequency of the clock. I found that it was way off. I adjusted it to the correct setting and the unit is working again. Now to re-install the orange peel mod and see what happens.

C2 being a variable component, can drift over time, but it is also possible that just the jostling of the console as you work on them can cause it to go off kilter a little. I had one I had to replace from a donor because it just went all over the place and never seem to stay put on any adjustment.

 

[stushug]

Today, I was able to re-install the orange peel mod. I set it up with composite and S-Video outputs. I don't have any S-video cables(I thought I did,) so I'll have to dig one up to test the output. I did test the composite connections and it is working perfectly. The color palette switch is also working.

What a difference from the RF output!!

@the_crayon_king, @walldog1 and @-^CrossBow^-, thanks very much for all of your help throughout my minor nightmare. I couldn't have gotten to this point without you guys!!!!

Edited November 8, 2022 by stushug

[+-^CrossBow^-]

4 hours ago, stushug said:

Today, I was able to re-install the orange peel mod. I set it up with composite and S-Video outputs. I don't have any S-video cables(I thought I did,) so I'll have to dig one up to test the output. I did test the composite connections and it is working perfectly. The color palette switch is also working.

What a difference from the RF output!!

@the_crayon_king, @walldog1 and @-^CrossBow^-, thanks very much for all of your help throughout my minor nightmare. I couldn't have gotten to this point without you guys!!!!

Glad you got it up and running! Enjoy the new output options from the OP board...because it is really quite amazing. Even after having installed quite a few of these now, I'm always still impressed the first time I power up another intellivision that I just finished installing an OP board into for burn in testing.

 

[stushug]

I FINALLY got everything done. I changed the connector on the power board so I could eliminate my de-laminated ribbon cable and put the console back together. Hooked it up to the 65" TV through my Denon AV receiver and the results are amazing! I attached a few pictures.

(I have no idea why I took a picture of the connector partially seated, must have been having a senior moment.)